Will Save World for Gold

[Anteros]

I thought this strip was a nice subversion of the normal terrified populace bit.

[ImperatorV]

...

Spoiler: update

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Really? Really Ardon?

Is resurrection even an option? I don't see any remains... Did he just?

I can't even figure out a coherent response to this. Is the entire point of this story to lull us into thinking Ardon isn't irredeemably evil and then SURPRISE!?!

[Cypher5]

heh

Spoiler: update

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You know I really want to say this should be shocking or upsetting to me, but then I remember this is ardon we are talking about so honestly I am surprised it took so long for him to get here. Frankly I expected this to happen sooner.

[Draconi Redfir]

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... they should have just let the warlock repair the crystal...

[Celestia]

Well that's certainly a thing that happened.

[Anteros]

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So questions. Did Ardon trigger his ability, or did the Nightmare spirit? If Ardon, will he actually grow as a character at any point because of this?

In regards to resurrection, yes it should be possible within the setting.

Stinks that we won't get another update for a week after this.

[Leewei]

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From a strict, cold equation point of view, what Ardon did saved his own life at no additional cost to Odi. After all, had he not used Odi for cover, they'd both be dead. Compelling someone to die like that is still an absolute douchy thing to do.

[Jane_Smith]

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Am I the only one who dislikes Odi as a character, ontop of feeling like his backstory will not get any completion/advancement/is a red herring and is mildly amused or relieved this happened? > _ >

[Celestia]

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Am I the only one who dislikes Odi as a character, ontop of feeling like his backstory will not get any completion/advancement/is a red herring and is mildly amused or relieved this happened? > _ >

Nah, I've never been a fan of him, either. I wouldn't say I'm "amused," though.

[Jane_Smith]

My main issue with him is honestly, hes just boring. His main character trait is "I dislike pants." Hes held back by his own backstory which is out of the way and likely will never see any real advancement towards. And while he is one of the only morale compasses the party has besides the paladin, it seems most of the comic all he has done is act stupid, confused, lost, and generally "meh" even in combat - or complain/question people's decisions/motives/plans (and not get answers as per usual). And hes been this way for quite some time. If he is revived: he needs a new outfit, he needs proper gear, I mean, everyone in the story has had some kinda upgrade gear-wise except him I think. And hopefully this death experience will make him focus more on the present/future then the past and have some kinda character advancement for him. If he is actually revived.

[Anteros]

He'll be revived. I'll agree that he's not particularly likable or interesting, but he's still one of the main characters of the strip.

[dude123nice]

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From a strict, cold equation point of view, what Ardon did saved his own life at no additional cost to Odi. After all, had he not used Odi for cover, they'd both be dead. Compelling someone to die like that is still an absolute douchy thing to do.

Spoiler: Well, actually....

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Had Ardon tanked the blast instead, then Odi would have lived. Between the 2 of them they had enough HP for only one to survive if he shielded the other.

[Anteros]

Spoiler: Well, actually....

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Had Ardon tanked the blast instead, then Odi would have lived. Between the 2 of them they had enough HP for only one to survive if he shielded the other.

He'd just die to the nightmare spirit like 3 seconds later, right?

[ImperatorV]

He'd just die to the nightmare spirit like 3 seconds later, right?

...Possibly true. The Nightmare spirit would need a new host, and the only available options are Odi and the Archwarlock. While Dire would be a better host, the Archwarlock has in the past demonstrated control over spirits. Therefore eating Odivallus's soul might be the best course of action. If that is the case, then Ardon actually made the right decision in ensuring at least one of them survived to go for a resurrection on the other. Now, mind control was the wrong way to go about it, but Ardon might not have had time to explain the logical course of action.

...If the others find out about this they'll take it really badly though.

[Anteros]

I do think that tactically it was the right thing to do. Morally obviously not. I don't think that Ardon was even thinking tactically though. He was just selfish and scared and he didn't want to die.


How many times has Ardon met the Guardian before? We know the Guardian meets Ardon for the 4th time when he warns Grofnar about him, but I can't remember if Ardon has met the Guardian 3 or 4 times already.

[dude123nice]

I do think that tactically it was the right thing to do. Morally obviously not. I don't think that Ardon was even thinking tactically though. He was just selfish and scared and he didn't want to die.


How many times has Ardon met the Guardian before? We know the Guardian meets Ardon for the 4th time when he warns Grofnar about him, but I can't remember if Ardon has met the Guardian 3 or 4 times already.

From the Guardian's perspective this would be the second time, I think. Or the the third time and the second time will happen further down the line.

[Anteros]

From the Guardian's perspective this would be the second time, I think. Or the the third time and the second time will happen further down the line.

I think you're right. First time is at Dire's castle, second is defending the city, and third is outside the shop.

[Celestia]

I think you're right. First time is at Dire's castle, second is defending the city, and third is outside the shop.

The shop was the fourth time.

[Anteros]

The shop was the fourth time.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about from Ardon's perspective.

[eschmenk]

I think you're right. First time is at Dire's castle, second is defending the city, and third is outside the shop.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I was talking about from Ardon's perspective.

I could easily have forgotten something, but wasn't it the tower first, then outside the shop, and wasn't that all so far? Wouldn't meeting the guardian protecting the city be the third time, assuming it happens? (It hasn't happened yet.)

[Anteros]

I could easily have forgotten something, but wasn't it the tower first, then outside the shop, and wasn't that all so far? Wouldn't meeting the guardian protecting the city be the third time, assuming it happens? (It hasn't happened yet.)

I'm assuming that they will inevitably meet at some point this arc.

[Leewei]

Spoiler: Well, actually....

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Had Ardon tanked the blast instead, then Odi would have lived. Between the 2 of them they had enough HP for only one to survive if he shielded the other.

Spoiler: Crunch

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I'm doing an analysis here out of curiosity, rather than any real disagreement.

Odi has Resist Lightning 5, I think? He's Heroic tier, after all.

Odi took damage as follows:
5 (Incite Terror)
32 (Lightning)
38 (Lightning)
33 (Lightning)

... after which, he died (negative bloodied HP) and Ardon took 41 damage.

As a leader, Ardon would have an extra 1HP per level, as well as 3HP base. Variation in Con stat could make a difference here as well.

So, what level is Ardon at this point? If he's 6th level, we're looking at roughly 8HP difference, plus 4HP for Bloodied value. That'd make Ardon snuff it at pretty much the same time as Odi, who would have lived after taking 36 (41-5) damage.

Other factors:
Ardon had failed two Death Saves, and may have been damaged by the throne, as we saw with Ellie.
Ardon losing consciousness would have been a Very Bad Thing.
As leader, Ardon was in the best position to save or restore Odi's life, had he been down and dying.

Observations:
Ardon's genre savviness seems to have badly failed him, here. He seemed convinced that defeating the villain and winning would guarantee his team's survival.

Ardon did not heal Odi during the blast. Was he out of healing powers?

Odi apparently was able to somehow provide cover while unconscious.

[Anteros]

At least we know how guilty Ardon feels about what he did.


Moments like this make me wonder just how literal the "Ardon has no soul" thing really is.

[Kantaki]

At least we know how guilty Ardon feels about what he did.


Moments like this make me wonder just how literal the "Ardon has no soul" thing really is.

Ardon not only lacks a soul, he doesn't even have a void spot where his soul should be.

[Anteros]

You know, we all keep expecting some kind of growth or redemption for Ardon and it just never happens. I'm starting to wonder if he's not the main antagonist of the whole comic.

[Kantaki]

You know, we all keep expecting some kind of growth or redemption for Ardon and it just never happens.

I don't.
I expect the others to finally grow a brain and shiv Ardon in the face for his horribleness, although I'm starting to give up hope on that.
But who knows, now that he has outright murdered* one of his party- his sole redeeming quality was that he kept at least them alive -that might change.

*Yes I know that at least one of them dying was kinda inevitable, but that doesn't change that by forcing Odi to take the bullet he might have just as well done it himself.

[Anteros]

I don't.
I expect the others to finally grow a brain and shiv Ardon in the face for his horribleness, although I'm starting to give up hope on that.
But who knows, now that he has outright murdered* one of his party- his sole redeeming quality was that he kept at least them alive -that might change.

*Yes I know that at least one of them dying was kinda inevitable, but that doesn't change that by forcing Odi to take the bullet he might have just as well done it himself.

The thing is that the party doesn't know about most of the horrible things Ardon does, and for a while he really was getting better.

If Ardon took the bullet Odie would die immediately after to the nightmare spirit.

Of course, Ardon would have done the same thing anyway so it's not like that's an excuse.

[stsasser]

The thing is that the party doesn't know about most of the horrible things Ardon does, and for a while he really was getting better.

If Ardon took the bullet Odie would die immediately after to the nightmare spirit.

Of course, Ardon would have done the same thing anyway so it's not like that's an excuse.

If Ardon had died, they would all have died either by Nightmare or Dire + Nightmare.
Ardon made the correct pragmatic choice.
Sacrificng one (possibly only temporarily) to give a chance of survival to eight was a solid decision. And not that matters to amoral Ardon, but it also was the moral decision.

[Kantaki]

If Ardon had died, they would all have died either by Nightmare or Dire + Nightmare.
Ardon made the correct pragmatic choice.
Sacrificng one (possibly only temporarily) to give a chance of survival to eight was a solid decision. And not that matters to amoral Ardon, but it also was the moral decision.

The problem isn't so much what Ardon did- although sacrificing another life to safe your own hide remains iffy, no matter how good a reason you might have -but how he did it.
No matter how you cut it, mind-controlling someone into killing themselves for your benefit is murder and certainly not the moral choice.

It might be the right choice from a tactical perspective- denying the Nightmare-spirit a chance at freedom and/or a new host means it's less of a threat after all -but I wouldn't call murdering someone- a teammate, someone who trusts you to keep him alive no less -a moral decision.
Especially since Ardon definitely would have acted (mostly) the same if his... „guest” wasn't in the picture.

[stsasser]

The problem isn't so much what Ardon did- although sacrificing another life to safe your own hide remains iffy, no matter how good a reason you might have -but how he did it.
No matter how you cut it, mind-controlling someone into killing themselves for your benefit is murder and certainly not the moral choice.

It might be the right choice from a tactical perspective- denying the Nightmare-spirit a chance at freedom and/or a new host means it's less of a threat after all -but I wouldn't call murdering someone- a teammate, someone who trusts you to keep him alive no less -a moral decision.
Especially since Ardon definitely would have acted (mostly) the same if his... „guest” wasn't in the picture.

I do agree Ardon would have made the same choice, since Odie would have had zero chance solo agalinst Dire or Nightmare, or Dire & Nightmare.
As for trust, Odie has made it clear that he does not trust Ardon.
Murder seem inappropriate in a combat context, as compulusion to sacrifice safety, health and life is a given. 'Go attack that machine gun emplacement, Marine!'