Will Save World for Gold

[Anteros]

I don't really see it. Odie is, at most, emotion-driven. Lazying around the island was hardly some terribly selfish act when there really were no threats around - and back then he would have been useless against the eladrin, either getting enslaved himself or killed.

Right now he lost his cool, but it's not like he's doing it because he thinks Kina is watching and will admire him for fighting.

Odie's main morality flaw is shared with the rest of the party: giving Ardon a pass for all his horrid crimes.

Lazing around when you're supposed to guard is the very definition of a selfish act. Odie couldn't have stopped the Eladrin, but he didn't even try. He couldn't have stopped a level 2 kobold from wiping his people out either.

Looking at the current situation, you have him willing to risk his people's safety to satisfy his tempter tantrum, but more importantly you have his refusal to accept Eladrin help when rescuing them, since it's more important to him that he been rescuing his people than actually rescuing him. It's not even that he feels some moral obligation to refuse Eladrin help to rescue them since he went right along with Ardon's plan. It's pure vanity.

If we want to ignore this situation, we have the time he tried to murder someone in cold blood for sleeping with someone he likes. Or the time he tried to sell out a party member he didn't like to their death for money.

He's a bad person. It's just that Ardon is so much worse that he doesn't look bad in comparison. Sure, he's better than Ardon. Who isn't?

[Silly Name]

Lazing around when you're supposed to guard is the very definition of a selfish act. Odie couldn't have stopped the Eladrin, but he didn't even try. He couldn't have stopped a level 2 kobold from wiping his people out either.

Failure to protect others from a threat nobody knew existed is not a moral failing. The only reason Odie was away from the village that day was exactly because Kina's jealous brother had accused him of not doing enough for the village and demanding Odie partecipate in the hunt.

There were zero dangers on the islands as far as anyone knew. That's the whole reason they came up with the silly "pray for good weather" thing, so that Odie would at least be able to pretend to be doing something for the village when there was no real problem for him to solve.

Looking at the current situation, you have him willing to risk his people's safety to satisfy his tempter tantrum

This feels like you want to interpret everything he does in the worst light possibile.

but more importantly you have his refusal to accept Eladrin help when rescuing them, since it's more important to him that he been rescuing his people than actually rescuing him. It's not even that he feels some moral obligation to refuse Eladrin help to rescue them since he went right along with Ardon's plan. It's pure vanity.

So, is he or is he not refusing eladrin help? Going through with a plan devised by Ardon sounds pretty much like "getting help" to me.

If we want to ignore this situation, we have the time he tried to murder someone in cold blood for sleeping with someone he likes.

"Trying to murder" is seriously pushing it. We're talking about a comic where characters regularly regrow limbs because their healer screamed at them hard enough. It was a fistfight.

Or the time he tried to sell out a party member he didn't like to their death for money.

Again, seems like you want to read Odie'ds actions under the worst possible light. At that moment Odie had all the reasons in the world to think Ardon was a man wanted for multiple charges of murder (because Ardon is an unrepentant mass murderer), and he was being asked to collaborate with bringing this known murderer to justice. What reasons did he have to not lay his life down for the man who constantly belittles him, insults him, treats him like a slave and routinely puts him in life-or-death situations without deigning to explain his plans?

He's a bad person. It's just that Ardon is so much worse that he doesn't look bad in comparison. Sure, he's better than Ardon. Who isn't?

Again, I find "not killing Ardon during the first 100 strips and afterwards ignoring his repeated counts of theft, murder and assorted laundry list of crimes both horrid and petty" a way worse moral failing than anything you listed above.

[Anteros]

Failure to protect others from a threat nobody knew existed is not a moral failing. The only reason Odie was away from the village that day was exactly because Kina's jealous brother had accused him of not doing enough for the village and demanding Odie partecipate in the hunt.

His whole job is to protect others from unknown threats. Failing that isn't a moral failing, but not even trying to do so is. Lying to everyone that you're working and freeloading off of them is.

There were zero dangers on the islands as far as anyone knew. That's the whole reason they came up with the silly "pray for good weather" thing, so that Odie would at least be able to pretend to be doing something for the village when there was no real problem for him to solve.

No. The whole reason they came up with the weather excuse was that he could shirk his responsibility and bang his friend's sister behind his back. Had Odie actually taken his responsibility seriously and prepared for unknown threats he would have been higher level and the Eladrin may have gone for a softer target.

This feels like you want to interpret everything he does in the worst light possibile.

And you want to make excuses for his failings.

So, is he or is he not refusing eladrin help? Going through with a plan devised by Ardon sounds pretty much like "getting help" to me.

He isn't. Because the important thing to Odie isn't that he doesn't receive help. It's that he gets to look like he doesn't receive help in front of his people.

"Trying to murder" is seriously pushing it. We're talking about a comic where characters regularly regrow limbs because their healer screamed at them hard enough. It was a fistfight.

Where I come from screaming that you're going to kill someone and blasting them through a wall followed by stabbing them with a spear is considered morally unacceptable. Maybe your culture is different.

Again, seems like you want to read Odie'ds actions under the worst possible light. At that moment Odie had all the reasons in the world to think Ardon was a man wanted for multiple charges of murder (because Ardon is an unrepentant mass murderer), and he was being asked to collaborate with bringing this known murderer to justice. What reasons did he have to not lay his life down for the man who constantly belittles him, insults him, treats him like a slave and routinely puts him in life-or-death situations without deigning to explain his plans?

The only people Odie is aware of Ardon killing were actively trying to kill him. His most morally grey act that Odie is aware of is killing an invading army of marauding orcs. He isn't aware of any of Ardon's worse acts. In fact, from his perspective Ardon regularly risks his own life to save others. He's a complete jerk about it though, which apparently deserves a death sentence to Odie.

[Draconi Redfir]

I'll bet Odie leaves the toilet seat up when he leaves the bathroom too. he's SOOOoooOOOOooOoOoOoO EVIL!!!

[Anteros]

I'll bet Odie leaves the toilet seat up when he leaves the bathroom too. he's SOOOoooOOOOooOoOoOoO EVIL!!!

Let's be real. With his accuracy there's no way he hits the toilet anyway.

[Magelyte]

The only people Odie is aware of Ardon killing were actively trying to kill him. His most morally grey act that Odie is aware of is killing an invading army of marauding orcs. He isn't aware of any of Ardon's worse acts. In fact, from his perspective Ardon regularly risks his own life to save others. He's a complete jerk about it though, which apparently deserves a death sentence to Odie.

There’s that gnome child that Ardon killed to scare off the other level 1 adventurers, which Odie believes Ardon did, so there is at least one unambiguously evil act that Ardon did that Odie knows about.

[Anteros]

I have to admit that it's a sweet moment. Wonder what this will mean for the Odie/El dynamic.

[Lizard Lord]

Created new thread since we hit page 50. Link found here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...rld-For-Gold-2