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    Default "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    This is not my work; it's a duplicate of this thread. Since the Wizards forums will be disappearing soon (bad form!) I wanted to preserve a few of these threads. Feel free to continue discussing the thread's topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiegleemax (real author unknown)
    On the evil of Pelor

    Pelor is commonly thought to be the near embodiment of Neutral Good. As a sun god, he is thought to be the enemy of the undead and the author of life through his gifts. He is also a god of Strength, for he advocates that the weak must be protected by those capable.

    However, recent revelations have given rise to a sect of thought (some label it an outright heresy) that Pelor may not be what he claims to be. A passage in the Book of Exalted Deeds states that Pelor refused to send his paladin a sunfly swarm to destroy a vampire that had murdered his family, while the paladin was out doing Pelorís work. In the same section, a CG god named Kord visited a plague upon his worshipper who was defeated on the battlefield. Speculations abound as to why Pelor refused his faithful paladin and range from defending the god (Pelor couldnít allow himself to stoop to the mortalís level of hate) to accusing the god (Pelor wanted to see his paladin suffer). No concrete answer could be found, but for those who thought it was a poor choice on Pelorís part, it led to a path of horrific discovery after discovery.

    Further investigation revealed (in the Epic Level Handbook) that the Lord High Priest of Pelor denounced her deity and the faith. It also said that the secret texts of a prominent religion, recently discovered, call into question the churchís real goal, its actual origin and the agenda of its god.

    From there we turn to the Player's Handbook.

    Jozan, the archetypical cleric of the Burning Hate is shown using symbol of pain, a 5th level cleric spell with the evil descriptor (PH 291). The SRD and PHB have two things to say about this:

    First, a cleric canít cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deityís (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

    Second, a clericís alignment must be within one step of his deityís (that is, it may be one step away on either the lawful-chaotic axis or the good-evil axis, but not both). A cleric may not be neutral unless his deityís alignment is also neutral.

    This means that Jozan can not be good-aligned, since he can casts evil spells. Nor Pelor can be , because he can grant evil aligned spells, that can only come from a non-good deity. So, Pelor can not be good-aligned.

    Also, Jozan has been seen stepping on the face of his allies to rise higher, rather than store his shield and mace (PH 68). That is not the act of a good-aligned being and shows quite a level of paranoia and mistrust against his allies.

    Moving on from there to the Complete Scoundrel, we find the path of the malconvoker introduced. This path requires a non-evil alignment and deals in the summoning of demons. A quote from the iconic malconvoker: ďTake him my slaves! Drag his soul back to your dark masters!Ē - Argyll TeíShea, servant of Pelor and malconvoker. The summoning of demons has always been one of the most vile acts. Page 8 of the Book of Vile Darkness states that Consorting with Fiends is evil. The statement ďAllowing a fiend to exist, let alone summoning one or helping one, is clearly evilĒ. More minor sections deal with Ďcasting evil spellsí and Ďdamning or harming soulsí, both of which are clearly present within the Pelor-sponsored malconvoker. One could very well suspect this path to be nothing more than a thinly disguised trap for the unwary and their souls.

    Also introduced into the Complete Scoundrel is the grey guard, which some may note ďhey, thatís just a slightly lighter version of the blackguard!Ē Indeed. Another step into the Lower Planes, this one is aimed at paladins rather than wizards and clerics. While I have not been able to tie the grey guard directly to Pelor as of yet, it seems that the taint caused by his masquerade is growing to touch even the sincere good aligned gods.

    Looking at the relics that Pelor sponsors shows another side of this dark story. The dawnstar, if sundered or broken, deals massive damage to all other creatures (aside from the wielder) within a 30 foot radius. Clearly, this power was inserted with no thought given to the cost for the wielderís allies. The original dawnstars were given to 4 solars who rescued one of Pelorís paladins from Baator (known as Perdition in some texts). A question arises then: what exactly was the paladin doing in Hell? If he had died and gone to Hell, that suggests some oddity concerning his faith and alignment. If he ended in Hell due to his own dealings with the devils (which are endorsed by the Church of Pelor, donít forget), then it seems that Pelor was flouting the Pact Primeval, an ancient law enacted before Pelorís time. It seems that there are only a few possible answers. One, Pelor is truly of Hell, and his worshipper ended there because of his faith. Two, the paladin ended up in Hell of his own actions and Pelor gave no thought to the stability of the cosmos in order to bring him back. (Probably out of fear for what information torture would bring to the paladinís tongue.) Three, Pelor sponsors LE paladins, known as paladins of tyranny (in a complete twisting of the term paladin) because he is a vile god of evil.

    The Inquisitor Bracers are another magic item sponsored by Pelor. These bracers justify the use of force on innocent people in order to sort them out from undead. You canít use the power of the bracers with a touch attack (to see if the positive energy perhaps burns the undead). You must swing your weapon with all force at the target, and hope that the positive energy undoes any mistake you might make. What a sick idea. A paladin on a different world once had a similar idea for dealing with undead. His name was Prince Arthas. Of Warcraft III fame.

    Pelorís final relic is a sun shard, which is fairly simple, it fires searing light at two targets. This isnít damning in and of itself, but consider that while other good gods (Elonna and Yondalla for example) offered relics that aided mortals, Pelorís are all intended to destroy. This is of course, not a huge point against Pelor, but when added onto the mountain of evidence, seems to be just one more confirmation.

    One adventuring group, headed by a tough talking thug named Dyson, followed the path against Pelor when they discovered something amiss within his church. Connections were drawn between Pelor and Baal. That story can be told by Dyson himself or his dungeon master Feanor. It should be noted however, that they began following this path of discovery prior to the release of the Book of Exalted Deeds. They were the first to see the truth and were shunned for it at the time. Those of us who have had our eyes opened to the light of the Burning Hate owe them a debt of gratitude.

    Another adventuring group, this one composed of angels, were betrayed by their god into the hands of Lixer, a Prince of Hell. They were broken, one by one. One was twisted into a demon, one lost faith in the path of the Celestial Compact, one was blasted from existence and the last was petrified and stands still in the Court of a Lord of Hell. The god was not named, but he was a god of the sun. Again, this story predates the release of the Book of Exalted Deeds.

    One final member of Dicefreaks has added information. Alratan was the first Freak to bring up evil uses for positive energy and good uses for negative energy. While his study does not accuse Pelor of anything (or indeed, deal with Pelor at all), it does point to an alternate path of positive energy, with which Pelor is definitely associated. (Positive energy, not the alternate path.) This is important because many dubious (and some slack-jawed) people have pointed towards Pelorís association with the sun and positive energy as proof of his inherent goodness.

    It must be noted that nothing is proven. Pelor still sits in Elysium. No good-aligned gods have moved against him, nor have they chilled alliances with the Sun God. It may be this is a smear campaign engineered by fiends, or simply the overactive imaginations of mortals. However, the above presented are facts, not fiction. Draw your own conclusions, but think twice before you choose the True Believer feat in Pelorís name. Below are my own conclusions drawn from the evidence.


    Pelor is a Neutral (lawful tendencies) Evil god of Sun and Strength.
    Pelor is a god of skin cancer, sun burns, thirst, and burning agony.
    Pelor hates undead as they cannot properly suffer in the same way as mortals.
    Pelorís divine realm is on Elysium.
    Pelor has deceived the good gods and mortals for so long that he has grown complacent in his position. The recent revelations are not purposeful, they are accidents caused by the god being sloppy.
    Pelor has many connections with Hell through both Bel and Belial and previously through Zariel.
    Pelor may have engineered the Great Fall of Eblis, Triel, and the others.
    It is unknown if the devils, yugoloths, or demons are aware that Pelor is evil. Presumably they are ignorant.


    The above is intended to make clear the position of those people who claim Pelor is evil. It is not intended as a slur on those who seek to worship Pelor as a benign deity nor as concrete proof of his evil. The investigation into his misconduct is currently ongoing and no final judgement should be passed at this juncture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    I use this in a high level campaign of mine. It works wonders, especially if you have a paladin/cleric of Pelor in the game and player is not aware of this story.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal0Badger View Post
    I use this in a high level campaign of mine. It works wonders, especially if you have a paladin/cleric of Pelor in the game and player is not aware of this story.
    Could you please share his reaction with us when you've done the Burning Hate cult bit?
    Until further notice 21st of October, please DM me for important stuff, and let the game master control my characters

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    That is actually pretty cool. Has anyone shown a Wizards employee this? What was their reaction?

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    I saw something related to this on /tg/ once

    Spoiler: it may be a bit small
    Show
    Last edited by dysike; 2015-09-19 at 08:12 AM.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Since we are bringing up stuff related to the burning hate, the hammer of witches explains that pelor also hates pesky arcane spellcasters.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Could you please share his reaction with us when you've done the Burning Hate cult bit?
    Seconded!

    Quote Originally Posted by dysike View Post
    I saw something related to this on /tg/ once

    Spoiler: it may be a bit small
    Show
    Ah yes, someone had been reading the thread. (It must be in that order, since your 4chan post is three years after the Wizards post.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    This idea will do hell to my idea for an NG Kobold Cleric who worships the Sun. What to do when it turns out the God of the Sun is, at the very least, not a very nice guy?
    Apologies for any poor wording, my brain is always broken
    Thanks for making me best axolotl avatar 2015, smuchmuch!

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Could you please share his reaction with us when you've done the Burning Hate cult bit?
    Well, I merge Zarus/Pelor first of all. Party usually teleported to a pocket dimension, where they save some "non-humans" while trying to figure out where the hell they are. When they learn about the "racist Pelor" worshipers, lived long ago in this lands, they usually denies this at first, telling that the Pelor they worship is far more different.

    Then, after some chains of events, they come to some sort of ruins of Pelor worshipers, "real Pelor" worshipers, where the high cleric of "Burning Hate" is somewhat still alive (I don't want to spoil too much). They deny this "fact" to the end, until the point where they defeat cleric; who is hostile because he sees blasphemers among the party (probably a Pelor Cleric/Paladin); and the sweet moment when they pick up the relic, Dawnbringer, and realize it is genuine. At this point, questioning a god begins.

    There are a lot twists of course in story, but players unaware of this topic are in denying till the end, until they see the relieves of Zarus & Pelor being only one being, with a gentle but clearly demonic face.

    I don't want to spoil it further, but lets say I base this campaign on this "Burning Hate" and movie "Revolver".

    The bigger and older the trick, the easier it is to pull. He thinks it can't be that old or big for so many people to have fallen for it.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    This is hillarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Do note, that the Barbarian does not seem to show up any more after that picture with the cleric climbing on his face (even in that shot in the movement section, where it shows the cleric and the rest of the party). Except, potentially, at page 313, where it looks like a potential half orc, but with one leg being nothing but bone, and says "Jozan bringing a friend back from the dead."
    (Do note, that there's only energy showing around the bone...I would say it might be ambiguous as to whether it's repairing the flesh, or ripping it off to make a skeleton...then I remembered that Pelor hates undead.)

    And I did check it. Indeed, the malconvoker is of Pelor. Interesting.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2015-09-19 at 06:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Sometimes you get eaten by a giant purple earthworm.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Damn. Can anyone think of a way to translate this into Eberron? It would be the single greatest divine misdirect in the history of everything. Anyone have confirmation from WoTC?

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    I was of the impression that Pelor was very much in the vein of the old perceptions of morality that existed in the first editions of D&D. Which were much more draconian and brutal in their perception of law and good. And that was why Pelor was harsh, unforgiving, and brutal to everyone including his followers and believers.

    I also find some of the provided evidence to be pretty circumstantial and difficult to really say proves much. Although it does piece together a really fascinating narrative about Pelor and could be used to conduct some incredibly interesting stories and game settings.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Irk View Post
    Damn. Can anyone think of a way to translate this into Eberron? It would be the single greatest divine misdirect in the history of everything. Anyone have confirmation from WoTC?
    I highly doubt WotC will ever comment on the theory. As for translating it into another setting, all that would take is either importing Pelor (possibly under a different name) or applying his shady(pun intended) attributes to an existing god in that setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Attempting to use Iron Heart Surge can often lead to the player removing the 'not being beaten upside the head' condition.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    For those of here familiar with pathfinder, or even more accustomed to it, I think it is worth looking at the Demon Lord Nurgal.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaDarwin View Post
    This idea will do hell to my idea for an NG Kobold Cleric who worships the Sun. What to do when it turns out the God of the Sun is, at the very least, not a very nice guy?
    The answer is always to praise the sun.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    This is not my work; it's a duplicate of this thread. Since the Wizards forums will be disappearing soon (bad form!) I wanted to preserve a few of these threads. Feel free to continue discussing the thread's topic.
    Just wanted to express my love, I used this as the model for a lot of characters since reading it over on the WotC forums.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    IIRC the author was Kain Darkwind, who mostly resides on Dicefreaks forums.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Speaking of things that the Burning Hate has inspired, I once parodied G Gundam with a Crusader of the Burning Hate.

    "This Pelor of mine glows with an awesome power! His Burning Hate tells me to defeat you!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    I happened to run Burning Hate Pelor as a major plotpiece in a setting. I also happened to have the players all start as Pelor worshipers and a Cleric of Pelor(they didn't know of the Burning Hate)

    "Praise Pelor" has become such a catchphrase among the party that one of them caught himself saying it reflexively at work. It's kinda the perfect party to happen upon for this twist.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    I planned out a campaign that involved someone trying to ascend as a NE god of the sun. Woulda be fun but I never ran it.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by peacenlove View Post
    IIRC the author was Kain Darkwind, who mostly resides on Dicefreaks forums.
    You remember correctly.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Ah, yes. It's nice to see that the lot of ye are finally waking up to the true intentions of your deific masters. The gods don't care about your petty alignments or morals, and even your all-giving sun-father has only his own interests at heart.

    I'm suddenly interested in doing this for some other deities from other pantheons. Iomedae seems obvious.
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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    What is this? Necromancy on a thread about Pelor?
    I will say though it is nice to see this up again though..

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)

    Heh, im currently playing as a cleric of pelor. With the haunted background with my party of misfit (evil) races their neutral alignment. I dont think anyone know of this story. I would love to surprise the DM and party by revealing myself as one possessed by an evil spirit of an ancient blackguard of pelor.
    Last edited by Josato; 2017-12-07 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: "Pelor, the Burning Hate" (from Wizards forum)


    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    What is this? Necromancy on a thread about Pelor?
    I will say though it is nice to see this up again though..
    But of course. Sun domain works wonders for Rebuke Undead, after all.

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