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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Welcome to the special Halloween edition of Villainous Competition!

    Previous Competitions
    Round One: Leader of Armies
    Round Two: Nature's Revenger
    Round Three: Double Agent
    Round Four: Grave Keeper
    Round Five: Crime Lord
    Round Six: Ultimate Predator

    We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Secret Laboratory: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. We donít want to make this too easy, do we?

    EDIT (updated 10/12): While some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats once their ECL is over 20, this would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. Epic materials are not allowed. Please note that Racial Hitdice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

    EDIT: The variant "Witch" spell list in the DMG (p. 175) is explicitly allowed. The Witch class would take the same stats as a Sorcerer, with the exception of the spell list.

    Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble Ö Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Friday October 16th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor (yours truly, Telonius). Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until Friday October 30th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.

    Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
    Originality - Is it unexpected?
    Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
    Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
    Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the BBEG the players talk about for years to come?

    Build Elegance: Fully monstrous builds are allowed, but may be penalized at the judgesí discretion. All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels. Amount of sources can be penalized, but obscurity of sources should not be penalized. Count the three Core books as one source. Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 0 if it makes the field unfair.)
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.


    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

    Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
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    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    You can use the below table for Spells.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code Immediately Below,
    Spoiler
    Show

    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]




    Speculation:
    Please donít post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Start packing some breadcrumbs, keep a spare bucket of water handy, and hold onto your broomsticks. This editionís villain is:

    The Wicked Witch

    A true classic of folklore and legend. Whether youíre cursing entire kingdoms to slumber or wreaking vengeance on children who drop houses on your relatives, youíre the scariest thing in the forest, and you know it. With your trusty broomstick in hand and your black cat at your side, youíre a source of terror (and costume ideas) for the children of the world. And one thing you know for sure: black never goes out of style.

    Devil-Worshiper? Sorceress? Enchantress? Cannibal? Monster? Temptress? Witches can be all of those and more. The aspect of the legends that you focus on are up to you.

    Limitations:
    • Must be capable of bestowing a curse of some kind. (The Bestow Curse spell will do, but similar effects will also count, at the judgesí discretion).
    • Must have a traditional witch-y animal (such as a black cat, bat, frog, etc) as a familiar, animal companion, or other similar helper.
    • Must include the Brew Potion feat.
    • Must be capable of achieving flight via a Broom of Flying. Creating the broom is not required; the character only has to be capable of using it.
    • Must be Evil-aligned. (Sorry, Glinda, this is a villainous competition).
    • Only one witch per entry. While covens of three are traditional, our judges and contestants will need a bit of mercy.


    We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.


    Use Elite Array instead of Normal Array, no Penalty on using Elite Array on a creature without any class levels.


    Make sure you donít mix up your eye of newt and tongue of dog; mis-spelling can be hazardous to any witchís health. Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:
    - Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
    - Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
    - Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
    - DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
    - Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
    - Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10
    So, start your evil plotting!

    To standardize Entries, please use this format when emailing it in:

    PM: Telonius
    Subject: Villainous Competition 7, Name of your Entry

    For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.

    More questions? Iíll get them, my little pretty Ö if you put Villainous Competition 7 Questions in the header.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2015-10-12 at 12:22 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Banned
     
    Jormengand's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In the Playground, duh.

    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    ...Wow. That is an exceptionally cramped set of restrictions, but I can probably manage. I has an idea...

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    I have some actual (school) work upcoming, but I'll try to get something in.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    I too am really behind on work, but have some rudimentary thoughts on this.

    Also, I'd like to nominate "Terror of the Deep" or something to that effect for a future round. Maybe a round for villains who eat people as a central aspect of their shtick as well.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Huh, I actually have an idea for this, and it doesn't entirely suck. I may be in for my first time in this competition.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Question from the inbox:

    "Would Witch (example spell list for creating new classes in DMG p175) be kosher?"

    For this competition, the Witch variant spell list will be explicitly allowed. Please note the DMG Witch would have the same stats as a Sorcerer, with the exception of the spell list. Witch levels (and anything that advances Witch casting) would allow advancement only among the Witch spells. The spells would be noted as Arcane Mark (Witch 0), Cause Fear (Witch 1), etc.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Is the Broomstick of Flying the Pathfinder item? Does that mean we have to use Pathfinder rules for it?

    Also by use, do you mean make and use, or simply use?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Is the Broomstick of Flying the Pathfinder item? Does that mean we have to use Pathfinder rules for it?

    Also by use, do you mean make and use, or simply use?
    Does this not count?


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Should have been "Broom of Flying" - sorry, my brain registers them as the same word - regular item from the 3.5 SRD. The character doesn't have to be able to make it, just to use it.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Question from the inbox:

    "Would Witch (example spell list for creating new classes in DMG p175) be kosher?"

    For this competition, the Witch variant spell list will be explicitly allowed. Please note the DMG Witch would have the same stats as a Sorcerer, with the exception of the spell list. Witch levels (and anything that advances Witch casting) would allow advancement only among the Witch spells. The spells would be noted as Arcane Mark (Witch 0), Cause Fear (Witch 1), etc.
    From how i'm reading that one, I'm thinking that its the predecessor of Warmage and Beguiler (note also the roughly equal size of spelllists between Witch, Warmage and Beguiler), in that a Witch would know all of the spells listed at any point.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    From how i'm reading that one, I'm thinking that its the predecessor of Warmage and Beguiler (note also the roughly equal size of spelllists between Witch, Warmage and Beguiler), in that a Witch would know all of the spells listed at any point.
    It most likely is the source of the idea of full-casting from a smaller fixed list, but from the text:

    Casters with access to spells from two different classes should generally have fewer spells available than either of the original classes. Versatility has its price...

    Hence, her list is somewhat limited, but it contains wizard, cleric, and druid spells. She casts spells as a sorcerer, using the sorcererís Spells per Day table (see page 52 of the Playerís Handbook), and her spells are based on Charisma.
    Sorcerer spells are cast from your list of spells known, which are selected from the Sorcerer list; you don't know all the Sorcerer list automatically. It doesn't cast as a Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, or Druid; so it doesn't know the whole list. The DMG doesn't specifically lay out the Spells Known table, which is the biggest point of difference. But at the time, Bard and Sorcerer were the only classes with lists of Spells Known, and it's pretty clear they weren't going with Bard progression.

    Unfortunately the text and the intent is pretty clear to me: the spell list is a variant list for Sorcerer; the list of available spells would be the only thing that changed. Witch doesn't know the full list. Warmage and Beguiler didn't exist yet when the DMG was published. They went with the general idea of a smaller, fixed list of spells known. Those classes knew their whole list. I totally agree that allowing Witch to know their whole list would be a much better way to balance things; but we're going by published rules.

    (Including it at all is a bit of a stretch, since it's not really a finished class; but keeping it as a Sorcerer variant, as I believe it was intended to be, might allow some interesting combinations that wouldn't otherwise surface).

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Aw yeah, I'm really happy that this competition is back. And just in time for Halloween!
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    Princess Pufflebutt: Silver, Junkyard Wars VII
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    Sanna Blackfish: Bronze, Villainous Competition II
    Annabelle: Gold, Villainous Competition IV
    Nulara of the Evil Eye: Gold, Villainous Competition IX

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    One thing I've noticed is that sometimes the competition threads go a bit dead for a while, while people are busy working on their own builds. Makes sense, since they don't want to post anything that clues in the competition to what you're making. But, I think that's one reason we've sometimes gotten a drop-off in participation. When the thread falls down to page 3 or 4, people might not realize that the contest is still going on.

    So, I'd like to open the thread up to ideas for keeping up interest between now and the deadline. Maybe a discussion of our favorite media depictions of the villain type we're going for? Great "villainous moments" from your own campaigns?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    So, as I've been trying to build a character for this, I've bumped up against every restriction except "One witch per entry." Which is to say, I had an idea that I nixed because it couldn't use a broom of flying. When I first looked at the restrictions, I didn't even understand how that was possible.
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    Ayesha: Gold, Junkyard Wars I
    The Last Warder: Silver, Junkyard Wars IV
    Princess Pufflebutt: Silver, Junkyard Wars VII
    Gren Beastclaws: Silver, Junkyard Wars VIII
    Mother Halfbreed: Silver, Iron Chef Home Cooking I

    Vathoa Frostspeaker Kualavoaka: Gold, Junkyard Wars IX
    Sanna Blackfish: Bronze, Villainous Competition II
    Annabelle: Gold, Villainous Competition IV
    Nulara of the Evil Eye: Gold, Villainous Competition IX

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    I know it is a major part of the 'witch' archetype, but do these restrictions have to be so... restrictive? I can't help but wonder if it really matters whether the witch' pet cat is black, white, or whatever other color, just to name something.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    I know it is a major part of the 'witch' archetype, but do these restrictions have to be so... restrictive? I can't help but wonder if it really matters whether the witch' pet cat is black, white, or whatever other color, just to name something.
    Plus, I'm pretty sure one of the Macbeth witches had a frog, and one of them wasn't even specific about her familiar.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    I know it is a major part of the 'witch' archetype, but do these restrictions have to be so... restrictive? I can't help but wonder if it really matters whether the witch' pet cat is black, white, or whatever other color, just to name something.
    It's possible you are being too literal here. I'm pretty sure that if you have some sort of traditional witch helper (black cat, toad, or somesuch), you're good to go. Can we get clarification from the Chair?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    It's possible you are being too literal here. I'm pretty sure that if you have some sort of traditional witch helper (black cat, toad, or somesuch), you're good to go. Can we get clarification from the Chair?
    I think it just has to be a Familiar, Animal Companion or Animal Cohort that happens to be something a "classic" witch would have (Cat, Toad, Raven etc.).

    On the note of the 'witch' variant class' spell list. Flipping through my DMG the spell list suggested a list that was something like:

    All Wizard/Sorcerer Enchantments
    Most Transmutations
    Lower level Illusions/Divination
    The weaker half the healing spells
    Spells that involved talking to/manipulating nature
    No "Blasty" spells, conjuration/calling, and explicit teleportation

    Essentially a Hybrid of Druid and Wizard/Sorc spell list with no evocations/sconjuration (outside of healing spells), very little necromancy, and no high level Divination/Illusion magic. That seem on the right track for the list of spells known?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Sorry for the sporadic posts - connection issues this weekend (and a busy workday today). We're going for traditional, Halloween-style Witch this time, since it is the Halloween special. Black cat is the most archetypal, but I suppose Bats and Frogs and other traditional helpers would qualify too.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    Should have been "Broom of Flying" - sorry, my brain registers them as the same word - regular item from the 3.5 SRD. The character doesn't have to be able to make it, just to use it.
    so, from my reading the only way you can fail to qualify to use the broom is by weighing 401+ pounds, since I don't think we can extrapolate the formula for speed any further. is there some other way I'm missing? I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    so, from my reading the only way you can fail to qualify to use the broom is by weighing 401+ pounds, since I don't think we can extrapolate the formula for speed any further. is there some other way I'm missing? I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.
    Presumably having no legs or too many legs would make it challenging to ride a broomstick in traditional witch fashion? Or having no physical form. There's probably a few other ways too.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Since I'm no longer DMing after running a game for the best part of a year, I'll see if I can get an entry in. I've got some ideas, but they all seem a little...obvious.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Huh. I'm alive? That's a surprise. My life has kinda went upside down since I stopped running this competition. I'll be watching, at least.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    So how are the witches' brews coming along?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Can't participate in this one, pity.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    I have been dragged into an alley and beaten near to death by inspiration. Here's hoping I can pull my build together in time.


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Hmm, after re-reading the initial post on entry requirements, not sure if the ideas I had are going to come together. One in particular was looking good, but not sure how to best make it fit all criteria...

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Definitely got something simmering, but the prep time may exceed my schedule right now. Time will tell.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    I'm thinking that I'll probably end up judging rather than entering. It's a pretty busy week for me, and my thoughts on this round feel a bit too obvious.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition VII: Double, Double, Toil and Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    So how are the witches' brews coming along?
    it's... going. this isn't as easy as I thought it'd be. should probably finish by the 16th barring unforeseen circumstances.
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