Dreamscarred Press - Path of War Expanded! (Thread VII)

[ICN]

The ability in the final version has an allowance for drawing a weapon as part of any attack. It doesn't let you sheath off-turn, but there are stances in Mithral Current that allow that, and Mixed Combat allows you to sheath then your turn comes back up again.

Oh, had missed that Bushi recovery is not an action rather than a free action, so that makes sense.

Though one other issue, it seems odd that Stalker Bushis need to give up Stalker Arts to get Bushido, while Warders and Warlords both get them on an automatic progression. Is the release version different from the Google doc version again?

[MilleniaAntares]

The difference is that stalker gives up less to become a bushi, so in turn they have to spend resources to take them.

[Elricaltovilla]

Oh, had missed that Bushi recovery is not an action rather than a free action, so that makes sense.

Though one other issue, it seems odd that Stalker Bushis need to give up Stalker Arts to get Bushido, while Warders and Warlords both get them on an automatic progression. Is the release version different from the Google doc version again?

The difference is that stalker gives up less to become a bushi, so in turn they have to spend resources to take them.

MilleniaAntares is mostly correct, but there are some tangential reasons why Stalker operates differently as well. Each class is supposed to represent a slightly different "ideal" of the samurai when they take the Bushi template. The Warlord is the "Leader Samurai," the Warder is the "Protector Samurai," and the Stalker represents the "Killer Samurai." Because the first two classes' themes fit within the code of Bushido, they have more direct access to the Bushidos of the class, whereas the idea of a killer samurai was supposed to be something looked down on and so the Stalker has the freedom to not take Bushidos if it doesn't fit with the character.

So while the Bushi Warlord might best represent someone like Oda Nobunaga, and the Bushi Warder might represent Jin from "Samurai Champloo," the Bushi Stalker would be best at representing say Ogami Itto from "Lone Wolf and Cub."

[angelpalm]

I hope there are some plans in the future for making another intelligence based psionic/initiator class or archetype.

There are 3 wisdom based ones and know 2 charisma ones but only the aegis archetype for intelligence. Maybe a Cryptic? Let them use craft tattoos for shattered mirror? Perhaps their own tattooed based sigil system that shares similarities to glyphs?

[Elricaltovilla]

I hope there are some plans in the future for making another intelligence based psionic/initiator class or archetype.

There are 3 wisdom based ones and know 2 charisma ones but only the aegis archetype for intelligence. Maybe a Cryptic? Let them use craft tattoos for shattered mirror? Perhaps their own tattooed based sigil system that shares similarities to glyphs?

Right now, the lot of us are kind of Path of War'd out, but there are plans to continue producing material for Path of War as long as the interest is there.

[angelpalm]

Path of War'd out?

Is that even possible? lol.

Maybe I will throw something together you guys can use as a framework. After seeing most of what you all did this last year, I have an idea of how you guys think.

[MilleniaAntares]

There is the very very much in alpha belluspex, though it doesn't use intelligence as much. It's similar to the base soulknife in that you can focus on a mental stat if you want, but you don't necessarily need it.

[GhorrinRedblade]

There is the very very much in alpha belluspex, though it doesn't use intelligence as much. It's similar to the base soulknife in that you can focus on a mental stat if you want, but you don't necessarily need it.

Hey, where/when did that come from? Did I miss something over the holiday?

[ICN]

MilleniaAntares is mostly correct, but there are some tangential reasons why Stalker operates differently as well. Each class is supposed to represent a slightly different "ideal" of the samurai when they take the Bushi template. The Warlord is the "Leader Samurai," the Warder is the "Protector Samurai," and the Stalker represents the "Killer Samurai." Because the first two classes' themes fit within the code of Bushido, they have more direct access to the Bushidos of the class, whereas the idea of a killer samurai was supposed to be something looked down on and so the Stalker has the freedom to not take Bushidos if it doesn't fit with the character.

So while the Bushi Warlord might best represent someone like Oda Nobunaga, and the Bushi Warder might represent Jin from "Samurai Champloo," the Bushi Stalker would be best at representing say Ogami Itto from "Lone Wolf and Cub."

Alright, I do feel that six free bushidos is a bit much, but I get what you were going for now. I would suggest adding a short blurb to all the different entries to the class templates to better reflect the different feels you're going for.

[Forrestfire]

Hey, where/when did that come from? Did I miss something over the holiday?

The Belluspex is a piece of currently-unofficial PoW homebrew that Gareth wrote up and shared last year. It has some issues with power point costs currently, because it as before the Zealot and Sleeping Goddess' math revision.

[oyzar]

Does the feat Sorcerous Bloodline grant you extra bloodline powers or does it just increase the effective level of those you already have? For example if I have one level in Bloodrager and 3 in Mystic, would I get the 4th level Bloodrager bloodline power?

[angelpalm]

There is the very very much in alpha belluspex, though it doesn't use intelligence as much. It's similar to the base soulknife in that you can focus on a mental stat if you want, but you don't necessarily need it.

Ahhh I see, that's pretty neat, would still like to see something for the cryptic though.

And a boost to the aegis trailblazer as it's one of those archetypes no one ever takes lol.

Have a question in regards to Seize the Opportunity. Can it be combined with Focused Shot? Focus shot is a standard action and not one of those weird semi standard actions like vital strike.

[MilleniaAntares]

I sure hope Stutter Strike was changed from a will save in the final pass. An anti-mage ability that targets will is rather worthless.

[charcoalninja]

I know this must have been answered ages ago but I've been looking all over and can't find it. Can the Mystic use any if their abilities outside of combat? With their granting mechanic it's all bound around the encounter starting so it's just unclear to me if there's any abilities they can use outside combat or if the Mystic is supposed to depend entirely on item creation for utility.

[Forrestfire]

The mystic chooses two maneuvers to have always-up outside of combat.

[charcoalninja]

Thanks for the quick reply! I was wondering if you can help me find where that's stated in the text? It looks like to me that everything's tied to encounters starting and that te 2 auto granted would scale up as more are granted at the start as the Mystic levels. Sorry to bring these questions up so late in the disussion threads, just hoping to use this material in play this weekend and so am trying to sort it all out in advance.

[Forrestfire]

It's in the mystic's maneuvers readied section:

Because of this, they do not fully control access to their readied maneuvers; she may select two of her readied maneuvers to be immediately granted to her for use at any time (when out of combat and these are used, these two maneuvers recover on their own on the following round), with the rest of her initially randomized maneuvers waiting to be granted in combat.

[Nyaa]

Mystic PDF is a bit different.

Before taking her first
action in an encounter, while initiative is being
rolled, she may select two of her readied maneuvers
to be immediately granted to her (if she is able to act
in a surprise round, she is granted her maneuvers
but if caught unaware, she is not). The rest of her
readied maneuvers are withheld and currently
inaccessible.

It seems to allow using any two readied maneuvers out of combat.

By the way, this wording makes Clockwatcher (Hourglass 1) useless for mystics.

[charcoalninja]

Yeah, I have the second text via the pdf. The quote with the explicit reference to out of combat use is golden and hope it makes it to the finished document. I'll have to doublecheck that I'm looking at the most recent one (I have the subscription)

Thanks again!

[Captain Morgan]

A question that has been nagging at me for a while: why did the Harbinger get less maneuvers and stances known/readied than her initiator siblings? It seems strange that the 3/4 BAB class meant to use maneuvers to the exclusions of anything less lags behind on these fronts.

I'm sure there's a balancing rationale at work, but I can't quite see it.

[Anlashok]

Is ranged mithral current still dead? Or did they end up bringing it back with release?

A question that has been nagging at me for a while: why did the Harbinger get less maneuvers and stances known/readied than her initiator siblings? It seems strange that the 3/4 BAB class meant to use maneuvers to the exclusions of anything less lags behind on these fronts.

I'm sure there's a balancing rationale at work, but I can't quite see it.

Harbinger in general is just really strong and it has an excellent recovery mechanic that lets it recycle its martial abilities very quickly in traditional encounters.

[MilleniaAntares]

A question that has been nagging at me for a while: why did the Harbinger get less maneuvers and stances known/readied than her initiator siblings? It seems strange that the 3/4 BAB class meant to use maneuvers to the exclusions of anything less lags behind on these fronts.

I'm sure there's a balancing rationale at work, but I can't quite see it.

Dark Focus grants a +5 bonus to attack when using strikes/counters of your chosen discipline(s), so that effectively turns it into a full BAB class without having the benefits of a full BAB.

[Captain Morgan]

Dark Focus grants a +5 bonus to attack when using strikes/counters of your chosen discipline(s), so that effectively turns it into a full BAB class without having the benefits of a full BAB.

Sure, but the Steelfist Commando gets scaling bonuses to attack, full BAB, and bonus feats to boot. (Yeah, the Harbinger gets tons of other cool class features.)

It's not like the Harbinger feels underpowered when you compare class features, I would just think she'd get more options to play with, not less. It's not like you throw out more damage by having more maneuvers, just have a little more flexibility. I guess the ease of recovery makes the Harbinger the sorcerer to the Warlord's wizard? Less options but more ability to spam the same winning tool repeatedly?

[MilleniaAntares]

Pretty much, I suppose.

Also keep in mind that you can start using strikes for AoOs later on, which massively increases your damage and debuff potential.

[Lord_Gareth]

A question that has been nagging at me for a while: why did the Harbinger get less maneuvers and stances known/readied than her initiator siblings? It seems strange that the 3/4 BAB class meant to use maneuvers to the exclusions of anything less lags behind on these fronts.

I'm sure there's a balancing rationale at work, but I can't quite see it.

...How honest would you like my answer to be? Your options include "total lie", " avoidance", "mostly true", and " entirely too honest; lost respect for Gareth".

[Captain Morgan]

...How honest would you like my answer to be? Your options include "total lie", " avoidance", "mostly true", and " entirely too honest; lost respect for Gareth".

Haha, I'd ask for the last one, if only because I'm a pretty forgiving person, especially when the other person built my favorite class in Pathfinder.

But you can always pm me if you don't want to put the whole truth out there.

[Abithrios]

...How honest would you like my answer to be? Your options include "total lie", " avoidance", "mostly true", and " entirely too honest; lost respect for Gareth".

Now I am curious about what the total lie is...

Also, without having read them, I suspect that the last option is just the "mostly true" one but with a more cynical interpretation and maybe an extra detail or two, which does not necessarily make it more true.

[Lord_Gareth]

Haha, I'd ask for the last one, if only because I'm a pretty forgiving person, especially when the other person built my favorite class in Pathfinder.

But you can always pm me if you don't want to put the whole truth out there.

I was about eleven shots in when Andreas asked me to write a debuff initiator. I said to him, "I need more alcohol for this," and immediately got more. Harbinger's first draft - the one shown the morning after, which still forms the core of the class - was written in about two hours with about twenty shots in me.

Harbi's maneuver progression is this way because I copied Warder's from when it was current at the time and then built the class around it instead of making my own. Aside from altering the stance progression, it hasn't changed since, especially in light of the fact that it functions.

[DarkSonic1337]

You made one of my favorite classes in existence while completely hammered, and didn't completely disregard it as a drunken mistake the next day.

That makes me have even more respect for you, not less.

[angelpalm]

Have a question in regards to Seize the Opportunity. Can it be combined with Focused Shot? Focus shot is a standard action and not one of those weird semi standard actions like vital strike.[/B]

Anyone want to take a swing at this?