Dreamscarred Press - Path of War Expanded! (Thread VII)

[Agrippa]

I'm a fan of Path of War, both mechanics and flavor. Though I would like to tinker around with the flavor text and some of the descriptors for the Black Seraph discipline, and I'd really like some help with that. In the Burrwood setting that I'm working on and off, mostly off, there are no D&D style Outer Planes. There are two main planes instead, Heaven/Celestia, the realm of the gods and the Underworld/Netherworld, realm of demons and the dead. The Black Seraph discipline on this world draws its power directly from the Underworld and its denizens, both demons and the souls of the dead.

Unlike most other setting the division between Heaven and Hell isn't over good and evil. Its over Law (emphasis on security and the needs of the group) and Chaos (emphasis on personal freedom and individualism) and light and dark (not as a metaphor for good and evil). The Underworld in this setting is a mixture of the Greek underworld (a place of darkness and gloom after death, but not suffering), a somewhat more serious take on Disgaea's Netherworld (the fourth wall will be left intact and junk food won't be considered valid healing/medicinal items) and Borderlands in general.

Gods	Demons	Fae
Erinyes, all archons and titans	All current demons, Pathfinder proteans, some eladrins/azata	Some eladrins/azata and guardianals/agathions, jinn and hags of all kinds plus current fae

So could anyone in this thread come up with a replacement word for "profane" in the Black Seraph maneuver text?

[Elricaltovilla]

Chthonic. Greek word meaning "of or referring to the underworld."

[Agrippa]

Chthonic. Greek word meaning "of or referring to the underworld."

That's perfect, thank you very much.

[Agrippa]

There's also the problem of some of the alignment based maneuvers in Black Seraph, but I'll wait for Chris Bennett/ErrantX to comment tomorrow.

[ErrantX]

There's also the problem of some of the alignment based maneuvers in Black Seraph, but I'll wait for Chris Bennett/ErrantX to comment tomorrow.

Wait - I thought I was dead and fired?

-X

[Agrippa]

Wait - I thought I was dead and fired?

-X

I haven't heard that. Dead and fired, that sounds needlessly rough. Well then, could you help out anyway?

[Elricaltovilla]

I haven't heard that. Dead and fired, that sounds needlessly rough. Well then, could you help out anyway?

It's partly a joke, but has to do a bit with the fact that ErrantX isn't the only author you're talking to. You're asking about refluffing something for a home game, the answer is basically going to be "go ahead." Remove the alignment component, keep it, change it, do whatever. It really doesn't matter that much.

[Agrippa]

I'm not asking anyone's permission to change discipline fluff/flavor, just advice on how to change it. In the setting I'm working on demons have no particular hold on evil, so Black Seraph Stance granting its user's weapons the unholy property wouldn't really fit. Gods are more collectivist while demons are more individualistic. Think Wherner von Strucker vs. the Joker or Inara Sera vs. Mad Moxxi. Continuing the Borderlands reference Handsom Jack would be an increasingly unhinged god, while Mister Torgue High-Five Flexington would be a demon prince.

[nemain]

This has probably been said before, but I tend to buy the books rather than read the threads:

At this moment, there is nothing I want more in this world than a Harbinger/Witch progression prestige class.

If you guys don't write one, I might try, but it just wouldn't be as good...

[Ninjaxenomorph]

That would be pretty cool. I have a thematically similar build I'm toying with, a hexcrafter magus using Martial Training to pick up Cursed Razor. And, pending Horror Adventures, hopefully picking up the 'Accursed' corruption.

[Zulwarn]

I'm not asking anyone's permission to change discipline fluff/flavor, just advice on how to change it. In the setting I'm working on demons have no particular hold on evil, so Black Seraph Stance granting its user's weapons the unholy property wouldn't really fit. Gods are more collectivist while demons are more individualistic. Think Wherner von Strucker vs. the Joker or Inara Sera vs. Mad Moxxi. Continuing the Borderlands reference Handsome Jack would be an increasingly unhinged god, while Mister Torgue High-Five Flexington would be a demon prince.

Well to me it sounds like it's more Law vs Chaos so just change Unholy to Anarchic and any Evil Descriptors or mentions to Chaos/Chaotic and you should be good.

[angelpalm]

Okay, with the trait, you have a maneuver. It works pretty fine, and you can recover it as a standard action. You take the Martial Training I feat. Now, your trait maneuver. It's now a full-round action to recover, if you decide to ready it at all, since you still only get one readied with the first feat. It is a step forward in my opinion, but it's almost (but now quite) offset by the fact that it only tides you over until third level, and then it's probably going to be forgotten.

Yeah I just house rule the feat line to have a better recovery mechanic since as is it isn't worth taking past the second feat, which you only take to gain access to a stance. That being said, the archetypes make it pretty useless in most cases since you can just dip into a class for one level gain everything you want. Couple that with that combat trait and you can be a non initiator take that trait, and dip into a class and start off with level 3 maneuvers in one discipline. And considering a majority of the level 3 stances are way better pound for pound than most of the others, well you are doing good.

Speaking of which I think the only one I don't care for is the solar wind one which gives you shot on the run but doesn't interact with maneuver at all. Probably have to house rule it to work with standard action ranged maneuvers. Kinda like how I house ruled focused shot to be a circumstance bonus which can be made as a free action with any ranged weapon if you have weapon focus with it(otherwise it works the same), and made anything that increases sneak attack range/precision damage range, also effect it as well.

Trying to show these guys how awesome relentless shot can be as well when paired up with an initiator archer. Using that in conjunction with say Night's knife and Sudden Gust, man, that's painful. It's like dude, just stay down.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

There are still classes that don't have an initiating archetype that aren't friendly to dips *cough*magus*cough*, which the feats could be useful for. I again cite that curse-build. Or if they are taking an archetype that isn't compatible with one of the initiating archetypes; an Eldritch Guardian fighter, for example, would love having martial training on both them and their familiar.

[khadgar567]

There are still classes that don't have an initiating archetype that aren't friendly to dips *cough*magus*cough*, which the feats could be useful for. I again cite that curse-build. Or if they are taking an archetype that isn't compatible with one of the initiating archetypes; an Eldritch Guardian fighter, for example, would love having martial training on both them and their familiar.

That's become to powerful( cheesey) to fast literal kung fu magus is gonna be broken. They don't mix magic and martial for good reason( if they mix you can solo BBEG with little to no optimization) even if we don't know but like to see how they done

[nemain]

You say that, but... Warpath Follower Inquisitor and Magus lose some class features and one spell per level per day and get to be both 3/4 casters AND 3/4 initiators.

[khadgar567]

You say that, but... Warpath Follower Inquisitor and Magus lose some class features and one spell per level per day and get to be both 3/4 casters AND 3/4 initiators.

still you have good spells and good martial power with little bit homebrew( or next path of war expansion) martial discipline for mages this breaks real fast I try to build a discipline for mages but stuck from first step on how to balance potential opness even with spheres of power this looks like train wreck from get go so good like mate

[Ninjaxenomorph]

The build I have in mind is less about doing absurd damage through spellstrike+strike, and more about cursing everything in sight and having a lot of options in combat. Having spells, hexes AND maneuvers at his disposal enables that, plus it gives him a lot of staying power.

[nemain]

That was very much my thinking as well, which is also why I'd prefer to do this build as a multiclass; the Witch spell list is actually a whole lot better for what I had in mind, because it is for debuffing rather than blasting. I can honestly admit I've never been particularly interested in playing a Magus because that Intensified Shocking Grasp trick seems to be all they do :(

[khadgar567]

so we need initiator archetypes for magus, witch and maybe synergist( personal pick gladly give up summon monster and spell casting for some solid initiator stuff)

[MilleniaAntares]

Witch likely isn't going to get an archetype due to having full casting.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

You can go Bladecaster, though. That might fill in what you want.

[nemain]

Yeah, the Witch does not have and should not have a PoW Archetype. I'd love to see an alternative to the Bladecaster with a focus on curses and some Cursed Razor/Hex synergy specifically intended for Witches, Hexcrafters, and maybe Divine Scourges or something (have I missed out on anything else that gets Hexes?). Bladecaster's great, but it has a specific flavour that I don't think is right for all characters. I'm hoping Dreamscarred Press will get have a chance to give us a few more options on the dual-progression prestige classes.

[CGNefarious]

I actually really like their dual progression prestige classes. They are done far better than Paizo's in my opinion. I would love to see more options as well.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

A winter witch-style hex and Cursed Razor-based PrC would be interesting. Many of the discipline-based prestige classes look fun.

[digiman619]

If you do include initiating to the witch, it'd probably best work by having it have reduced magic like a Warpath Follower and giving it the War Soul/Pathwalker progression (so at 20th they'd only know 13 maneuvers and have 4 stances). Probably should also be banned from using Advanced Study or any maneuver-modifying feats.

[angelpalm]

Full casters are good where they are at, if anything doing a reworking of the white witch archtype for another class would probably be more preferable. Maybe the Cryptic? I sure would like to see it get an initiator archetype anyway.

I am definitely wanting to see archetypes for stuff like Ninja, brawlers, hunters, and cavaliers. Samurai, Anti-paladin, and slayer as well. But I really want to see them try their hand at a sort of Fate/Stay night archetype for Summoner. I see someone made a few classes that remind of something from the naruverse but they are clunky and convoluted and one of them revolves around the worst mechanic(sunder).

That being said, a feat that allows you to always have a level 1 stance active would be nice as well. That way you could still benefit from your awesome high level stances and then use the other mostly utility stances as well like the ones that give you scent, or who knows, the one that eventually gives you flight. Would be nice but would need to be implemented in a way that wasn't super abusable.

[khadgar567]

Full casters are good where they are at, if anything doing a reworking of the white witch archtype for another class would probably be more preferable. Maybe the Cryptic? I sure would like to see it get an initiator archetype anyway.

I am definitely wanting to see archetypes for stuff like Ninja, brawlers, hunters, and cavaliers. Samurai, Anti-paladin, and slayer as well. But I really want to see them try their hand at a sort of Fate/Stay night archetype for Summoner. I see someone made a few classes that remind of something from the naruverse but they are clunky and convoluted and one of them revolves around the worst mechanic(sunder).

That being said, a feat that allows you to always have a level 1 stance active would be nice as well. That way you could still benefit from your awesome high level stances and then use the other mostly utility stances as well like the ones that give you scent, or who knows, the one that eventually gives you flight. Would be nice but would need to be implemented in a way that wasn't super abusable.

can you explain fate stay night summoner idea?

[neversterling]

Full casters are good where they are at, if anything doing a reworking of the white witch archtype for another class would probably be more preferable. Maybe the Cryptic? I sure would like to see it get an initiator archetype anyway.

+1 for Cryptic

I am definitely wanting to see archetypes for stuff like Ninja, brawlers, hunters, and cavaliers. Samurai, Anti-paladin, and slayer as well. But I really want to see them try their hand at a sort of Fate/Stay night archetype for Summoner. I see someone made a few classes that remind of something from the naruverse but they are clunky and convoluted and one of them revolves around the worst mechanic(sunder).

Brawler archetype: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-Fool-s-Errand

Ninja could very easily be allowed to take Hidden Blade. Slayer as well, really - they both get talents every other level, and are variations on the rogue.

That being said, a feat that allows you to always have a level 1 stance active would be nice as well. That way you could still benefit from your awesome high level stances and then use the other mostly utility stances as well like the ones that give you scent, or who knows, the one that eventually gives you flight. Would be nice but would need to be implemented in a way that wasn't super abusable.

You mean a feat that would be required by every initiator as soon as they qualify for it? Maybe IL 20 should be the prerequisite to make Warlords not so butthurt about going all the way to level 20 for Dual Stance.

But seriously, that is way too powerful for a feat. Maybe three or four feats, but not one.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Yeah. Although, a level 20 warlord could use that, be in two stances from dual stance, and one of those stances be the Fool's Errand stance where you also enter a lower-level stance... Quad stance!

[phlidwsn]

Another vote for Cryptic. Bonus points if its compatible with Grammaton. Purely from a design point of view, and not at all because I'm trying to build one right now that really wants Phantom Sun Stance. :)

While you're at it, maybe trade an insight or two for Stalker Arts, given that they're both rogue themed. This is not at all related to my burning need for Sniper's Tools.