Should PCs have their own long term goals?

[Mastikator]

I'm not talking about motivation for adventuring, I'm talking a specific "end game" goal that the PC wants to accomplish. And not necessarily something that lends itself to more adventure once you achieve it.

I've done both characters with specific goals in mind as a motivation to adventure, and characters that had some reason to adventure as an end unto itself. I found that the character with a specific goal had "more to go on" so to speak and was always able to find a next thing to do even when the DM wanted to try to sandbox it up. Even when the other player's PCs didn't.
But once he accomplished the goal there wasn't any reason to keep adventuring, once he won he basically retired. In a way it added a happy ending to the saga of that character, but it also meant I had to make a new one.

Do you usually have specific goals for your PC to accomplish, or does it just get in the way of the DMs campaign?

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's not strictly necessary but I prefer it when my players have long-term goals. It makes it easier to make deep and interesting plots.

For instance, one of my players wants to make a god. Not play one or become one, have his character artificially make one. I've got all kinds of ideas churning over that one.

[Coidzor]

Usually when my character has long term goals, they're the kind that allow for continued adventuring, though they may alter the timescale and amount of downtime between adventures, or they're the kind that are campaign enders because they relate to the campaign's endgame.

Don't have to have them in all games, naturally, and some characters would have no long term goals beyond the general be completely in character for them.

[Keltest]

In general, this should be left up to the PCs. Unless theyre under some sort of contract to keep adventuring until X condition, they aren't actually compelled to do any of this by anyone except themselves, so presumably they must have at least some desired outcome. Whether that is abstract like "get filthy rich" or more specific like "Slay Lord EvilNameington and avenge my father" will depend on the player and the campaign.

[Red Fel]

I strongly encourage it. For one thing, it keeps the player invested when I can devote a little time in any given session to progressing a PC's long-term goals; it makes the player feel that his character is making progress, and that the player has been listened to. For another, it gives me plot hooks. Telling me your character's long-term goals is basically telling me, "If this shows up in some fashion, I'll probably be more engrossed in the game," and I'm all about that. I try to find a way to work the PCs' long-term goals into the overall story in some way. Lastly, it frequently answers the question, "Why are the PCs adventuring together?" If the answer is, "Because it's the best way for me to become stronger/ avenge my father/ discover the lost city/ learn the truth," problem solved. Intra-party roadbumps can be brushed aside when there are long-term benefits involved.

That said, it's up to the players. Some people enjoy playing Richard. (Aka "I. Like. To. Kill. Things.") And if you find a way to make that work at the table, great. But I find that a long-term goal, particularly one to which the DM pays attention, can prolong the lifespan of a game, frequently in a way that the PCs being handed a story arc won't necessarily do.

[Arcane_Snowman]

I think it's also a matter a the kind of game you're playing or the running. I hav tendency to run sandbox games, and without the players having some kind of personal motivation it'd get very dull.

[NichG]

I think it helps a lot to keep up momentum. If its possible, I try to weave the long term goals of characters into the main arc of the campaign - its more natural since it feels as though the campaign follows from things the characters are actually interested in pursuing, rather than just being an unpleasant circumstance forced on them that is getting in the way of what they actually want to be doing. So that can sometimes help with the 'well, now I retire' situation.

Its also possible to run campaigns where switching out characters is frequent. Right now I'm running a game where every 3 sessions, 15 years passes, so a 'long term goal' might be a 10-game arc, and most characters will retire in fewer than 12 games no matter what anyhow.

[prufock]

I like characters to have motivations and goals of their own, and appreciate it when other players do as well. It leads to interesting roleplay and it's usually fun to watch them tie the campaign plot to their own ideas.

I HATE it when players use this as an excuse to not be a team player.

[Talyn]

The important thing is to have a long-term goal where working towards accomplishing it is adventure-friendly. Once it's accomplished, well, if the campaign is still going on, maybe you should let that character retire, or find a new long term goal.

"Find the man who killed my father," "get rich so I can marry my true love," and "found a Druid Circle in a sacred grove" are all good long-term goals which, by adventuring, the character can reasonably be said to be working towards.

[Anonymouswizard]

I encourage it, as the only character I want to bring back completed his goal.

Alexander David used to be a kook, and actually has experience in summoning demons.

When the demon cult he was part of was brought down he was taken in by a Catholic priest, who managed to get him to convert and join up with the Daemonhunter organisation.

The end result was someone who wantes to become a priest but was hated by the clergy. The climax of the campaign put him at the point where, as soon as he gets his theology degree he'll be put on the path to becoming a priest.

And end up as the second character from that game leading a daemonhunter team, despite wanting to avoid that.

[DireSickFish]

I've found it helpful on both a player side and GM side but don't think it's necessary. You also don't have to start with a long term goal, it can be added in as you play. Sometimes a complex backstory with a singular driving motivation simply won't come into play int he kind of game your playing.

In one game my DM had us all transported from the Forgotten Realms into another setting thousands of years int he past in a different prime material. I was playing a cleric of a god that didn't exist at that time or on that plane. That made my characters motivation to found my gods religion so that I'm not literally the only follower.

This was a much different direction than I had planned on going with the character. I had wanted to be more laid back and not push my faith on other folks. I had to become more of a preacher and cleric classic and the transition was fun.

[Brion]

For instance, one of my players wants to make a god. Not play one or become one, have his character artificially make one.

His character doesn't happen to be named Elan, does it?

[GungHo]

If they want to. It helps if they let me know so that I can seed things to make that happen, but they don't have to let me know, nor do they really have to have them. Not having long term goals isn't a mark against them by any stretch.

[Quertus]

Yes, having goals is a fairly normal thing for people to do; properly roleplayed, one would expect characters to also have goals. I am not sure of the exact cause-and-effect chain, but I have noticed a definite trend that my favorite characters have had more goals, and have succeeded at more goals, than my other characters.

Spoiler: sample goals

Show

What follows is a list of some of the long-term goals a few of my characters have had. Some of these goals have been accomplished, some have not, and some, while the character has done them, the character plans on continuing to do more of the same.

#1

• Recover/rescue mentor (completed)
• Research custom spells (completed and ongoing)
• Create custom magical items (completed)
• Create custom magical items for others (completed)
• Build a "star ship" (completed)
• Found a guild (completed)
• Publish several series of books (completed and ongoing)
• Give dissertations regarding results of magical research (completed and ongoing)
• Research (completed and ongoing) and potentially undo (nope) strange alterations to reality (ie, changes of edition in the game)
• Collect exotic components for custom spells and items (completed and ongoing)
• "Collect" relics (completed and ongoing)
• Become a chess grand master (nope)
• Parley with Dragons (completed and ongoing)
• Form alliances with amazingly powerful beings (mostly higher-level PCs; completed)
• Protect reality / save the world (completed, and completed, and completed, and completed, and completed, and...)
• Overcome or mitigate certain built-in drawbacks (completed)
• Acquire magic item X, Y, and Z (completed)
• Get out of debt (!)

#2

• Overcome or mitigate certain built-in drawbacks (completed)
• Acquire skills from foreign worlds (completed and ongoing)
• Obtain minor probability control (completed)
• Obtain better probability control (nope)
• Create a child (completed)
• Obtain a (more powerful than self) "sidekick" (completed)
• Obtain a base of operations (completed, completed and lost, completed)
• Obtain a steady supply of... resources (completed and ongoing)
• Make a fortune "inventing" technologies (completed and ongoing)
• Find a suitable homeworld for allied refugee mages (completed)
• Help NPC godling get home (completed)
• Protect creator (completed and ongoing)
• Come to an understanding with kindred (nope)
• Turn allies into cohesive fighting force (nope)
• Locate former allies and warn them of the danger inherent to their form of reality hopping (nope)

#3

• Get party to join his religion (completed)
• Be really good at healing, so the party doesn't die, so he can watch them suffer and help them spread suffering longer (completed)
• Get party to accept the mana-efficiency of poorly-named "fast healing", so that he can watch them suffer from their wounds longer (completed)
• Get party to trust him, so that, when they die, he can resurrect them, so that they will suffer more (completed)
• Get party to accept him building all their items, at a discount, so he can make a fortune off rules manipulation (completed and ongoing)
• Create an undead dragon mount (completed)
• Stockpile corpses for use as an army of undead (completed and ongoing)
• Stockpile dead PCs for use as temporarily-resurrected shock troops, and enjoy watching them choose to continue to suffer even after their death (completed and ongoing)
• Create a magical storage chest to store and preserve all these corpses (completed)
• Build custom items to overcome or mitigate certain campaign-enforced drawbacks (nope)
• Ingratiate self into local political system (completed and ongoing)
• Bring down local political system? (nope)
• Achieve lichdom (nope)

#4

• Find a way to return all of his allies to their respective homeworlds (completed)
• Collect - and use - sentimental mementos (completed and ongoing)
• Acquire expert tactics training (completed)
• Form, train, and equip zealous hit-squad (completed)
• Sterilize monarch (completed)
• Form alliance with as many city-states as possible (completed)
• Train troops in allied city-states (completed)
• Find peaceful arrangement with other city-states (nope)
• Destroy other city-states' economies (completed)
• Crush other city-states (completed)
• Create new life to better serve patron deity (completed)
• Live up to expectations as High Priest (completed)
• Live up to expectations as Party Diplomat (um... maybe?)
• Protect party from the truths that would destroy them (completed and ongoing)
• Earn his mentors' respect (nope)

Now, most of these goals, I never told the GM/DM/Storyteller about ahead of time - I "came by them honest" in the natural course of the adventure. I personally like having a large list of goals, and pursuing whichever one(s) naturally fit into the adventure. If none of them do, then I will either a) choose an additional goal that does fit in the adventure and fits with the character; b) talk to the DM about how my character might pursue one of his goals; or c) ... be sad?

Of course, my modus operandi works best when one character is in many games over the course of their lifetime, or when I have run under the DM before, and know what to expect / what kind of "tools" will likely be provided for the accomplishment of my character's goals, and choose/build the character accordingly. One of my characters who "fits" with the DM's style will usually acquire new goals organically over the course of the adventure.

In my experience, if you have only a single big goal, you may not be able to work it into a given adventure/campaign in a way that is satisfying (whether or not you tell the DM about it).

But having the mindset that obtaining some given goal is an "end-game"? Unless that end game is "death" or "retirement", that feels rather limiting - and, depending on the game, even those are not necessarily permanent.

[Velaryon]

Yes, having goals is a fairly normal thing for people to do; properly roleplayed, one would expect characters to also have goals. I am not sure of the exact cause-and-effect chain, but I have noticed a definite trend that my favorite characters have had more goals, and have succeeded at more goals, than my other characters.

Now, most of these goals, I never told the GM/DM/Storyteller about ahead of time - I "came by them honest" in the natural course of the adventure. I personally like having a large list of goals, and pursuing whichever one(s) naturally fit into the adventure. If none of them do, then I will either a) choose an additional goal that does fit in the adventure and fits with the character; b) talk to the DM about how my character might pursue one of his goals; or c) ... be sad?

Of course, my modus operandi works best when one character is in many games over the course of their lifetime, or when I have run under the DM before, and know what to expect / what kind of "tools" will likely be provided for the accomplishment of my character's goals, and choose/build the character accordingly. One of my characters who "fits" with the DM's style will usually acquire new goals organically over the course of the adventure.

In my experience, if you have only a single big goal, you may not be able to work it into a given adventure/campaign in a way that is satisfying (whether or not you tell the DM about it).

But having the mindset that obtaining some given goal is an "end-game"? Unless that end game is "death" or "retirement", that feels rather limiting - and, depending on the game, even those are not necessarily permanent.

Quertus makes a lot of good points. I especially agree that if you have only one major goal, it can be very limiting and lead to disappointment if it's not fulfilled.

For example, my first ever PC was a half-elf Fighter whose long-term goal was to clear his name (he had left home after an argument with his father, only to learn later that his entire family was murdered that night), and find the real killer. It never came up even once in two semesters of campaign, which to this day taints my memories of the game. I'm not sure if the DM was planning to work that story in later and we never got to it, or if it simply didn't fit into his plans for the story he wanted to tell (though I suspect the latter). I still enjoyed the heck out of the game, but it did dampen my enthusiasm.

This applies to out-of-character goals too, and is one reason I don't like to plan my builds all the way to level 20 (in d20-based games), because I know I may never get that far. Life gets in the way, or the DM loses interest in running the game, or the party gets TPK'd, or any of a bunch of other things happen that prevents my character from achieving my goals for them.

Having a bunch of goals though, that's a good idea that increases realism and also lets you develop more attachment to the character.

[veti]

I don't think this is a "should" question. Some PCs will have their own ideas of what they want to achieve, others won't. That's - very much like people, really. Both approaches are just fine.

The DM needs to be a bit more flexible with the former - especially if the player doesn't openly discuss those goals with him/her in advance, but springs them mid-session - but flexibility in a DM is always good anyway.

(And if the PC's goals "get in the way" of the DM's campaign, then the DM is running a railroad. Just sayin'.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

His character doesn't happen to be named Elan, does it?

Nope. He's deadly serious about it. He's considering faustian pacts to collect souls, taking over or building a theocracy, draining large quantities of ambient magic from great swathes of land, manipulating natural interplanar forces and/or extant gods, the whole nine yards really.

It's left me trying to cypher how these things could play out and which, if any, of these might work. It'll be very interesting to play these things out. The obstacles that each option presents and how they might be overcome is a gold mine of story-telling possibilities.

[Strigon]

I vote yes; though it's not strictly necessary.

The PC's having their own long-term goals helps keep things fresh and interesting, rather than one-dimensional and flat.

If you watch good, narrative-driven shows, nearly all of them have long-term goals the individual characters are working toward, on top of the basic plot.
While I don't watch it, from what I hear, Game of Thrones is a good example of this; lots of things come together to form a complex, believable plot.

An example I certainly can speak to is Firefly; in addition to the whole crew trying to survive and keep out of jail, Simon's trying to cure his sister, Wash is trying to keep his wife safe, Mal's looking for ways to fight the Empire, and Shepard Booke... Well, who's to say what his endgame is, but it's heavily implied that there was one.
Same deal goes for Marvel's Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D., Star Trek, even down to shows like RWBY.

[Jay R]

If it fits the character conception, and the player, and the DM's game, yes.

[goto124]

The PC's having their own long-term goals helps keep things fresh and interesting, rather than one-dimensional and flat.

As someone with the inability to think about anything resembling long-term, even when I form a 'long-term goal' it gives a reason to keep adventuring, but not much beyond that.

[BWR]

Like so very many of the other questions that get asked here, the only good answer is "if it fits the game and people think it's fun".
There are games that are dependent on PCs having their own long-term goals, there are games where such goals would be entirely irrelevant or get in the way of the story. Neither option is more correct or better than the other outside of context.

[AceOfFools]

Consider this: tabletop RPGS are the only type of game where you can invent a narrative goal for yourself, with a character of your own design, and have it be the focus of the game.

JRPG style games and visual novels limit you to the role of preexisting characters, and western RPG style are limited by what the developers put in, with every branch adding considerably to the development time and cost. MMOS simply cannot allow any one player to have that big an effect on the game world. (Not gonna discuss meta game goals like become the richest dude on the server or get so good at the PvP that I am a legend. Only narrative goals).

If you want to play some sort of obscure goal, like find my irresponsible older brother and make him claim his rightful place as king (actual example a PC of mine had), good luck finding a gam where the developers thougth to include that option.

Tldr: if you want to define your own narrative goal, table top games are the best place to do it.

[Nifft]

I like the idea in the abstract, but in practice it's seldom well done.

There are generally two reasons for this:

1 - Players who think they must immediately satisfy their character's motivation, without regard for the circumstances.

2 - GMs who think that if your character has a goal, that goal is the one and only thing you will never achieve.

[Temperjoke]

Everyone should have long term goals. I think the mistake people make is that they think that once the goal is achieved, that character is done. It can certainly be the case, but the thing about goals is that they can change over time. What starts as a goal to restore an ancient woods that was destroyed in a war, evolves into a goal to stop an evil deity's efforts to ruin the world. Sometimes, if you don't have a goal, your companion's goal can be adopted by you. After your druid friend passionately talks about restoring the forest of his home, you feel moved and want to achieve this too.

But it is important to make sure that your character goals don't interfere with the GM's plans. Of course, a good GM can find a way to incorporate his players' goals into his overall story.

[Delwugor]

As others have pointed out, there are good reasons to have long term goals but they are not necessary.
What I find is that it is more important the character have motivation to "adventure", be part of the group and be investing in the GM's game. I have had simple motivations such as "they're doing good, I might as well help" to a complex "help the group conquer this country so that I can pull the strings behind the scenes", both worked very well in play.

[Drynwyn]

Absolutely. To quote Gygax:

"The ultimate aim of the game is to gain sufficient esteem as a good player to retire your character -- he becomes a kind of mythical, historical figure, someone for others to look up to and admire."

Now, your goal shouldn't be something like "Acquire a cheese sandwich", because that's not particularly mythical or historical. But a goal that lends itself to retirement? Absolutely.

[kyoryu]

Absolutely. To quote Gygax:

"The ultimate aim of the game is to gain sufficient esteem as a good player to retire your character -- he becomes a kind of mythical, historical figure, someone for others to look up to and admire."

Now, your goal shouldn't be something like "Acquire a cheese sandwich", because that's not particularly mythical or historical. But a goal that lends itself to retirement? Absolutely.

Why do you think so many innkeepers and random people have class levels in Forgotten Realms?

[Temperjoke]

Absolutely. To quote Gygax:

"The ultimate aim of the game is to gain sufficient esteem as a good player to retire your character -- he becomes a kind of mythical, historical figure, someone for others to look up to and admire."

Now, your goal shouldn't be something like "Acquire a cheese sandwich", because that's not particularly mythical or historical. But a goal that lends itself to retirement? Absolutely.

"I want to make the best damn sandwich in the world. I'm going to need the sacred cheese from the monks of the Provolone mountains, mystic lettuce and tomatoes from the druids of the Everliving Woods, freshly butchered ham from the Giant Dire Boar of the Ruined Valley, slices of turkey breast taken from the Monstrous 6-Winged Turkey (slow-roasted in the fires of Mount Volcanic Doom) and pretzel bread from that baker on 4th street.

Oh, and a diet honey mead to drink."


Everything can be a long term goal with creativity.

[comicshorse]

"I want to make the best damn sandwich in the world. I'm going to need the sacred cheese from the monks of the Provolone mountains, mystic lettuce and tomatoes from the druids of the Everliving Woods, freshly butchered ham from the Giant Dire Boar of the Ruined Valley, slices of turkey breast taken from the Monstrous 6-Winged Turkey (slow-roasted in the fires of Mount Volcanic Doom) and pretzel bread from that baker on 4th street.

Oh, and a diet honey mead to drink."


Everything can be a long term goal with creativity.

Love it

Though I seem to remember there's an Irish myth about acquiring the only comb and scissors strong enough to cut the hair of the father of the woman the hero wants to marry just to prove the real world can throw up ideas that odd

[NichG]

For example, my first ever PC was a half-elf Fighter whose long-term goal was to clear his name (he had left home after an argument with his father, only to learn later that his entire family was murdered that night), and find the real killer. It never came up even once in two semesters of campaign, which to this day taints my memories of the game. I'm not sure if the DM was planning to work that story in later and we never got to it, or if it simply didn't fit into his plans for the story he wanted to tell (though I suspect the latter). I still enjoyed the heck out of the game, but it did dampen my enthusiasm.

When I think of a player having a long-term goal for their character, I generally think of something that the player themselves will actively pursue, not something that it's on me as the DM to integrate into the campaign and make important. If the player can't meaningfully take actions towards the goal without the DM actively making it happen, I think its a bit of a problem, because the main advantage of long term goals is it helps the PCs know what to do next, how to drive the story themselves, etc.