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    Default The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Unlike most other Fighter variants you'll see out there, this one does not attempt to make the Fighter stronger in combat--this does, mind you, but not to the degree of some. Instead, this one chooses to make the exemplary fighter that of a great warrior-leader, warlord, general, or commander-at-arms. As he progresses in level, he grows through martial prowess and into leadership.

    This variant also uses the idea of auras similar in spirit to those of the Marshal--and to a lesser extent, similar to the Bard's Bardic Music ability.

    Exemplary fighters from myth, tale, and legend include King Arthur, Theoden-King, Sigurd, Gilgamesh, Cuchullain, Finn MacCool, and Beowulf.

    {table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Auras
    1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Bonus Feat | 1
    2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Bonus Feat | 1
    3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | - | 2
    4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Bonus Feat | 2
    5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Bonus Feat | 2
    6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +2 | +5 | - | 3
    7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Bonus Feat | 3
    8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Bonus Feat | 3
    9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +3 | +6 | - | 4
    10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Commandant | 4
    11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Bonus Feat | 4
    12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +4 | +8 | - | 5
    13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Combat Prowess | 5
    14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +4 | +9 | Bonus Feat | 5
    15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +5 | +9 | - | 6
    16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Warlord | 6
    17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Bonus Feat | 6
    18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +11 | - | 6
    19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Combat Mastery | 6
    20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +12 | Legendary | 7
    [/table]

    HD: d10

    Class Skills (4 + Int): Balance, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Engineering and Architecture), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Listen, Martial Lore, Profession, Ride, Spot, Swim, Use Rope

    Proficiencies: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as one exotic weapon of their choice. They are also proficient with all armors and with all shields (but not tower shields). A fighter who uses a weapon he is not proficient with for at least three combats--and suffers the penalties for non-proficiency--gains proficiency with that weapon.

    Auras (Ex): A fighter's mere presence is a stirring and motivating force, particularly on the battlefield. At first, third, sixth, ninth, twelfth, fifteenth, and twentieth levels, a fighter selects an aura from the list below. A fighter may have one aura active at a time, and any bonus provided by an aura is considered a morale bonus unless stated otherwise. Switching an aura is a swift action.

    Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

    These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing feats gained through advancing in level.

    Commandant: At 10th level, a fighter gains a companion--a like-minded individual who wishes to study underneath him. Use the table below to determine level of the companion. Add the character's fighter level to his Charisma score to determine his Commandant Score. At this point, he is only allowed one companion, regardless of what the chart reads.

    Companions tend to follow in the footsteps of their masters when it comes to class and feat selection, and tend towards the same as their master when it comes to race, alignment, weapon selection, and ability scores, but this is largely up to the DM. A companion must be a humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature whose ECL does not surpass the value listed in the chart below or the fighter's own ECL-2, whichever is lower. In addition, a companion is limited to the following base classes: barbarian, dragon shaman, knight, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, and scout.

    Companions are unique individuals and are not easily replaceable, nor are the blindly loyal to the fighter. A fighter who loses one of his companions--whether by death or by departure--must seek out and find a new one before he can continue advancing as a fighter.

    Combat Prowess (Ex): Starting at 13th level, a fighter adds 1/4 his fighter level (rounded down) to all fixed, numerical bonuses gained from feats designated as Fighter Bonus Feats as a competence bonus. Do note that competence bonuses gained in this manner do not stack. Furthermore, he may forego the use of two feats for a duration of one minute--effectively losing them for a short time--to reroll an attack roll, saving throw, or combat-related skill check. If, by losing a feat in this manner a fighter fails to meet a prerequisite for another feat, he loses access to that feat as well.

    Warlord: At 16th level, a fighter's fame grows, and he attracts more companions. He is now allowed to have multiple companions, though only one is allowed to be at the ECL listed on the chart (or at the fighter's level -2); all others must be at the listed ECL -2, at the fighter's level -4, or lower.

    Combat Mastery (Ex): At 19th level, a fighter adds 1/3 his fighter level (rounded down) to all fixed, numerical bonuses gained from feats designated as Fighter Bonus Feats (instead of the 1/4 he would gain from Combat Prowess) as a competence bonus. Do note that competence bonuses gained in this manner do not stack. Further, he may forego the use of one feat for a duration of 1d4 rounds--effectively losing the feat for a short time--to reroll an attack roll, saving throw, or combat-related skill check. If, by losing a feat in this manner a fighter fails to meet a prerequisite for another feat, he does not lose access to that feat.

    Legendary: At 20th level, a fighter is a living legend. He attracts more followers. At this point, a fighter gains the Leadership feat as a bonus feat, though he does not gain a cohort (already having something similar in his companions). He also gains the ability to found a small town to rule; the followers gained through leadership are inhabitants in this town. Most of these followers are members of the working class--such as smiths, scribes, farmers, and the like--though some (particularly the higher level ones) hail from other professiosn. Government, laws, diplomacy, and the like are all left up to the fighter.

    Auras
    Bloodlust
    Whenever an enemy falls within 10' + 5'/4 fighter levels, the fighter gains a +1 unnamed bonus to all damage rolls. This bonus lasts until the end of the encounter.

    Calculating
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain a bonus to Dexterity-related checks equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (round down).

    Courageous
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (round down).

    Dauntless
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain a bonus to Armor Class equal to 1/3 the fighter's fighter level (round down).

    Everlasting
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain a bonus to Constitution-related checks equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (round down).

    Fearless
    The fighter and all alies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels become immune to fear.

    Mighty
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain a bonus to Strength-related checks equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (round down).

    Minacious
    The fighter gains a bonus to intimidate equal to the number of allies within 10' + 5'/4 fighter levels.

    Obstreperous
    All enemies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels get a penalty to Concentration checks equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (rounded down).

    Relentless
    The fighter and all allies within 5' 5'/4 fighter levels gain spell resistance equal to 5 + the fighter's fighter level.

    Resilient
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain damage reduction 1/-, plus an additional DR 2/- equal to 1/4 the fighter's fighter level (round down). This stacks with other sources of DR, such as a barbarian's class feature.

    Scheming
    All enemies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels get a penalty to Armor Class equal to 1/3 the fighter's fighter level (rounded down).

    Triumphant
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain access to a pool. This pool has one point in it for each three fighter levels the fighter possesses. Any ally within the aura--including the fighter--can remove one point from the pool to reroll a saving throw, attack roll, or damage roll as an immediate action.

    Unshakable
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels receive a 5' bonus to land speed, plus an additional 5' per four fighter levels the fighter possesses.

    Vigilant
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels receive a bonus to Listen and Spot checks equal to 1/2 the fighter's fighter level (Round down).

    Commandant
    {table=head]Commandant[br]Score | Follower[br]Level | Number of[br]Followers
    1 or less | 1 | 1
    2 | 1 | 1
    3 | 2 | 1
    4 | 3 | 1
    5 | 3 | 1
    6 | 4 | 1
    7 | 5 | 1
    8 | 6 | 1
    9 | 6 | 1
    10 | 7 | 1
    11 | 8 | 1
    12 | 9 | 1
    13 | 10 | 2
    14 | 11 | 2
    15 | 12 | 2
    16 | 13 | 2
    17 | 14 | 2
    18 | 15 | 3
    19 | 15 | 3
    20 | 16 | 3
    21 | 16 | 3
    22 | 16 | 3
    23 | 16 | 4
    24 | 17 | 4
    25 | 17 | 4
    26 | 17 | 4
    27 | 17 | 4
    28 | 18 | 5
    29 | 18 | 5
    30 | 18 | 5
    31 | 18 | 5
    32 | 19 | 5
    33 | 19 | 6
    34 | 19 | 6
    35 | 20 | 6
    36 or more | 20 | 7
    [/table]
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-05-21 at 12:12 PM.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Heh, a return to the (A)D&D Fighter as leader of men... Looks good to me, though I worry that the genericness of the Fighter is being undermined here. Increased Skill Access and Skill Points never do any harm...
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-05-18 at 08:37 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Heh, a return to the (A)D&D Fighter as leader of men... Looks good to me, though I worry that the genericness of the Fighter is being undermined here. Increased Skill Access and Skill Points never do any harm...
    You want a generic warrior, use the Warrior NPC class, I say.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Nah, Fax, that would be a generic NPC Class, that's bad mojo. Fighters are a PC Class, world of difference... as you well know. Anywho, it's just the usual objection when people give the Fighter specific abilities.

    (Oh yeah, I would give them Good Saves in all three, might as well)
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-05-18 at 08:46 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Two good saves, full BAB, and some very good specialty abilities and a companion who stacks with the cohort from Leadership? Why the hell be any other melee class?

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Don't use the other classes, use ToB, Fax's Paladin, etc.

    Course, the issue with this is the fact that, as a leader of men, you have both your own, and the combat resources of many others. This means you get the equivalent of leadership abuse, except more easily.

    Except in this case, not so much. What you get is a bunch of fighters.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2007-05-18 at 09:37 PM.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Fax appears to be updating a few Base Classes; I would imagine the Ranger and Barbarian will get their treatment eventually. The How It Should Be Paladin is somewhere around here already...
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-05-18 at 09:39 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    Two good saves, full BAB, and some very good specialty abilities and a companion who stacks with the cohort from Leadership? Why the hell be any other melee class?
    You apparently haven't seen ToB classes, or the How-It-Should-Be Paladin. Where the ToB classes are built for combat supremacy--Crusader for resilience, Swordsage for finesse, and Warblade for power--and the How-It-Should-Be Paladin is built to be a divine champion, this Fighter is built for tactical supremacy.

    The thing here is that this fighter is a warlord leader. The barbarian, ranger, and knight are all frontliners. This fighter is capable of frontline combat, but is better in a tactical position--particularly with his auras. Further, this introduces some MAD into the equation, what with Cha-dependency added for the companion/leadership side of things.

    All in all, this fighter is a tactical leader first and foremost. Ranger, Barbarian, Rogue, Sorceror, and Bard are all slated for HISB-ing (if you'll pardon the acronym) too, so don't worry about them: I'm not done yet.

    Also, to address a particular point:
    At this point, a fighter gains the Leadership feat as a bonus feat, though he does not gain a cohort (already having something similar in his companions).
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-05-18 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Ilike it. It's very similiar to the fighter change I'm using for a setting I'm making. It gets a helper, followers, and auras (remnaed commands, can be offense or defensive, and can be taught be other fighters) too.

    NOOOOO! SPOT AND LISTEN AS CLASSS SKILLS!


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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    So commandant is basically getting the Leadership feat... but you get a companion, which isn't a cohort... could you have both?

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Huh. Nice, thogh I don't know if I like the whole followers thing... maybe give fighter an option to make his party members his followers, thus giving them some additional bonuses? Fighter always hanging around with one or two companions doesn't appeal to me. And it would hurt someone who wants to make fighter, but wants him to be a loner.
    Last edited by Morty; 2007-05-19 at 07:02 AM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Stuff
    I ask that you don't be condescending, because I happen to be a very-outspoken advocate for ToB. The problem I'm putting forward is that the "How-It-Should-Be" Fighter makes playing a damage-dealing melee class kind of pointless. Why do that when you can give crazy bonuses to your Bard Uber-diplomat friend and take over the world?

    Better yet, you didn't give a limit on Companions, so why not get a bunch of companions who are, assuming you're twenty, sixteenth level and have all them be wizards, clerics, and druids? You've got all your bases covered.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    All in all, this fighter is a tactical leader first and foremost. Ranger, Barbarian, Rogue, Sorceror, and Bard are all slated for HISB-ing (if you'll pardon the acronym) too, so don't worry about them: I'm not done yet.
    Fax, are you planning on releasing your works as a book? If you release a .pdf with your improved classes as Open Game Content, I would certainly pony up the cash for it (as soon as I can pry the credit card from my wife's claws, of course)
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    Ilike it. It's very similiar to the fighter change I'm using for a setting I'm making. It gets a helper, followers, and auras (remnaed commands, can be offense or defensive, and can be taught be other fighters) too.

    NOOOOO! SPOT AND LISTEN AS CLASSS SKILLS!


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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    I like the increased skills, I tried to do the same thing when it came to skill points with my variant fighter (making the fighter playable again, thread in general gaming) by giving them bonuses. I would definitely consider increasing their range of class skills, and agree they need more bonuses/skill points. It seems we're both seeing eye to eye on that one.

    As for your idea of fighter, I do not agree that a fighter should be taken as a tactical genius. Yes, a lot of fighters are indeed this archetype, but there are sooooo many ways to play fighter I would hate to limit fighter's flavor by implementing class abilities. Although some people may argue that class abilities dont impact RPing, I wholeheartedly disagree, gaining followers and being the leader of a small town absolutely will impact RPing and I would hate to leave the most open of the RP melee classes that restricted. To be a leader, you kinda have to act as one. I know your argument is that Swordsage and Warblade represent martial prowess, but I see no reason why fighter shouldn't either.

    Besides there are PLENTY of prestige classes that lead to this leader/general bit thing, Purple Dragon Knight off the top of my head. The base class of knight kinda did this idea too, I would modify knight to fit your new schematic before fighter.

    And lastly, Auras? Meh, that kind of screams paladin or especially divine mind to me.

    Basically, what about the lone warrior dedicating to mastering the art of the long spear??? That leaves very little room for followers or auras, why should someone like that care? You must admit, that that is a perfectly acceptable, and somewhat popular use of the fighter class.

    So anyways that's my beef with you concept. I tried to stay away from messing with the fighter's flavor, but I definitely agree that fighter needs a fixup.

    p.s. here's my fighter

    consider a revision of class skills definitely in order. and of course, the feats remain the same as the original, same d10 HP, saves, and skill points.
    Last edited by AngelAndrius; 2007-05-19 at 10:07 AM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    I ask that you don't be condescending, because I happen to be a very-outspoken advocate for ToB. The problem I'm putting forward is that the "How-It-Should-Be" Fighter makes playing a damage-dealing melee class kind of pointless. Why do that when you can give crazy bonuses to your Bard Uber-diplomat friend and take over the world?

    Better yet, you didn't give a limit on Companions, so why not get a bunch of companions who are, assuming you're twenty, sixteenth level and have all them be wizards, clerics, and druids? You've got all your bases covered.
    I don't mean to be condescending. It just seems like you're not reading the whole class. First, companions and cohorts don't stack: you can't have both. Second, I do limit companions, right in the chart below the class. Unless you're speaking about a limit of some other kind.

    Also hte bonuses from auras aren't that crazy.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Resilient
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain damage reduction 1/-, plus an additional DR 2/- equal to 1/4 the fighter's fighter level (round down). This stacks with other sources of DR, such as a barbarian's class feature.
    Recheck the phrasing here. Is it supposed to be DR 1/-, +2/- per 4 fighter levels?

    Triumphant
    The fighter and all allies within 5' + 5'/4 fighter levels gain access to a pool. This pool has one point in it for each three fighter levels the fighter possesses. Any ally within the aura--including the fighter--can remove one point from the pool to reroll a saving throw, attack roll, or damage roll as an immediate action.
    How long does it take for the points to regenerate? Really need to know that, unless they're gone for good...
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Nice class. I sort-of like it that the Fighter has gained an additional purpose besides 'hitting stuff' (uh, helping others hit stuff). Wouldn't fighters have good Reflex saves, though? Fighting does involve reflexes.

    I'd also like to point out that there are less Constitution- and Strength- based skills than Dexterity based skills. In fact, there is only one Constitution-based skill (Concentration, which most characters don't need at all; those that do are probably not going to stand within 10 feet of the Fighter). Sure, there are various Constitution checks, and while ability checks may make up for the lack of Strength-based skills, I don't think they do so for Constitution as well.

    So, yeah, I think you should either add additional bonuses to Everlasting or drop it altogether.
    Last edited by IonizedChicken; 2007-05-20 at 06:12 AM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Talanic View Post
    Recheck the phrasing here. Is it supposed to be DR 1/-, +2/- per 4 fighter levels?
    Looks like fairly simple wording to me. That is, yes.


    Does Calculating's dex related checks include initiative and reflex?
    Last edited by Captain van der Decken; 2007-05-19 at 04:54 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    How does it work at epic-level?
    Last edited by OOTS_Rules.; 2007-05-19 at 05:47 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Hmmm... your idea gives me one. I don't know why I didn't think of this before...

    Suppose that I gestalted Fighter with Marshal in my campaign. No special modifications, just straight-up mashing them together. (Except, perhaps, for first and possibly second level--both Fighter and Marshal are currently (1) weak and (2) great as dip classes for one or two levels, and I'd rather not create some sort of penultimate dip class here.)

    Too good? Not good enough (due to MAD)?

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    This feels unattractive to certain alignments who potentially still would wish to be a fighter. As a chaotic neutral or evil, for example, I wouldn't want to be forced to always have a companion or I couldn't level, they would drag me down. Bleh.
    A demoralizing, or forceful leader mechanic, enslaver, or just general meanie options would interest me.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    I can see no compelling reason why Spot, Search, and Listen are not class skills for EVERYBODY. Because I swing an axe, I can't comprehend my surroundings?

    Spot Search and Listen are for finding things you are not supposed to see. Sure they are untrained but challenging spot, listen, and search checks are too rare for most classes to have as class skills.

    It's not "I spot a guy behind a rock"

    It's "I spot the small gradient of hue and shade change of the border of the rock 's face against the trees caused be the mild glare of the celestial boar leather worn by the guy behind the rock."

    The only person who make difficult Spot and Listen often enough to be class skills are beings who live in the wild (stealth is law in the wild), thieves and spies (to detect patroling guards and antispy spies), and people who have jobs that require dectecting accute things.

    Rolling Spot/Listen is typically the sign for an ambush. The typicially fighter rarely places himself in a position to be ambushed and typically can't do jack to stop an ambush should it happen.

    Add Sleight of Hand. Fighters should have excellent finger control.
    Last edited by Orzel; 2007-05-19 at 10:54 PM.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    Spot Search and Listen are for finding things you are not supposed to see. Sure they are untrained but challenging spot, listen, and search checks are too rare for most classes to have as class skills.

    It's not "I spot a guy behind a rock"

    It's "I spot the small gradient of hue and shade change of the border of the rock 's face against the trees caused be the mild glare of the celestial boar leather worn by the guy behind the rock."

    The only person who make difficult Spot and Listen often enough to be class skills are beings who live in the wild (stealth is law in the wild), thieves and spies (to detect patroling guards and antispy spies), and people who have jobs that require dectecting accute things.
    So you're saying there is a difference between detecting patrolling guards and petrolling monsters in dungeons? That adventuring doesn't involve detecting anything whatsoever? Hardly. Spot and Listen are skills every class might need, and so they should be available to every class in some way or another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel
    Rolling Spot/Listen is typically the sign for an ambush. The typicially fighter rarely places himself in a position to be ambushed and typically can't do jack to stop an ambush should it happen.

    Add Sleight of Hand. Fighters should have excellent finger control.
    :S How does ability in melee combat make you unable to spot and/or hear things? If anything, it should sharpen your senses further since you need to be aware of every misstep and blunder of your opponent.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetRein View Post
    This feels unattractive to certain alignments who potentially still would wish to be a fighter. As a chaotic neutral or evil, for example, I wouldn't want to be forced to always have a companion or I couldn't level, they would drag me down. Bleh.
    A demoralizing, or forceful leader mechanic, enslaver, or just general meanie options would interest me.
    I'd add some option for a loner fighter. Sure, D&D is team game anyway, but what if I make a lone warrior NPC(using my PrC) and I want him to be as powerful as PC? I can't use that fighter fix to do this.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by IonizedChicken View Post
    So you're saying there is a difference between detecting patrolling guards and petrolling monsters in dungeons? That adventuring doesn't involve detecting anything whatsoever? Hardly. Spot and Listen are skills every class might need, and so they should be available to every class in some way or another.

    :S How does ability in melee combat make you unable to spot and/or hear things? If anything, it should sharpen your senses further since you need to be aware of every misstep and blunder of your opponent.
    Spot, Listen, and Search are used for to detect things others hide from them. Most classes do not save to detect hidden items on a regular basis. Therefore Few class should have those 3 skills.

    It's why Wizards don't have Climb. Why Clerics don't don't have Hide. They don't use themoften and therefore rarely train them.

    A common thing people foreget about guards and sneaking past them.
    You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check.
    If a guard is standing in forn of a door, no amount of thinking small will get you in that door without the guard noticing. You'll need to blind/kill/distract the guard or become invisible/concealed/covered. 'Cause guards can see nonivisible people standing 5 feet in front of them.

    Unless there are people jumping you all the time (the wilderness) or you need to find small changes in the scenery (traps), you are getting little practice for detection and few people in your occupation would have ranks in it.



    Loner fighters are call rangers :P
    The Companion and auras could be handled like ranger's combat style. Choose 1, get power.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Combat Prowess (Ex): Starting at 13th level, a fighter adds 1/4 his fighter level (rounded down) to all fixed, numerical bonuses gained from feats designated as Fighter Bonus Feats. Furthermore, he may forego the use of two feats for a duration of one minute--effectively losing them for a short time--to reroll an attack roll, saving throw, or combat-related skill check. If, by losing a feat in this manner a fighter fails to meet a prerequisite for another feat, he loses access to that feat as well.
    This is my main issue, personally. At 20th level, Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus Stack, giving +12 to hit. Add on melee weapon mastery, then you have +19. Weapon Supremacy gets thrown in the mix, you get an additional +5 AC, get to take a 10 on a roll with and place a +10 on it (second roll will, on average, hit better than your first roll). That's not to mention things like Dodge giving +6 AC. Also, if you favor bludgeoning weapons, you could take Crushing Strike and suddenly ever attack after the first gets a cumulative +6 to hit (though, it's not like you'll miss already.) So, lets say a 20th level fighter with a warhammer hits all 3 times before his last attack against an enemy, and chooses to take a 10 and add his bonus (from Weapon Supremacy) onto his last attack. That'll give him an 81 to hit, and, he took a 10. This isn't even figuring in Magic Weapons.

    I don't know, that seems a bit extreme. I understand tat it's supposed to mkae the fighter great at fighting, but that's still kinda ridiculous. Pretty sure he could break most god's ACs.
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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMage666 View Post
    This is my main issue, personally. At 20th level, Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus Stack, giving +12 to hit. Add on melee weapon mastery, then you have +19. Weapon Supremacy gets thrown in the mix, you get an additional +5 AC, get to take a 10 on a roll with and place a +10 on it (second roll will, on average, hit better than your first roll). That's not to mention things like Dodge giving +6 AC. Also, if you favor bludgeoning weapons, you could take Crushing Strike and suddenly ever attack after the first gets a cumulative +6 to hit (though, it's not like you'll miss already.) So, lets say a 20th level fighter with a warhammer hits all 3 times before his last attack against an enemy, and chooses to take a 10 and add his bonus (from Weapon Supremacy) onto his last attack. That'll give him an 81 to hit, and, he took a 10. This isn't even figuring in Magic Weapons.

    I don't know, that seems a bit extreme. I understand tat it's supposed to mkae the fighter great at fighting, but that's still kinda ridiculous. Pretty sure he could break most god's ACs.
    I hadn't even considered that possiblity. I do like the idea and the mechanic, though. Can you think of a way to make it not broken?

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    The Companion and auras could be handled like ranger's combat style. Choose 1, get power.
    The auras, though, really aren't that big a deal. He's allowed one at a time, and they have really small radii (particularly at low levels) and don't provide that big of a bonus.

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    Default Re: The How-It-Should-Be Fighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    I hadn't even considered that possiblity. I do like the idea and the mechanic, though. Can you think of a way to make it not broken?
    Try making it:

    Levels 1-5: +1
    Levels 6-10: +2
    Levels 11-15: +3
    Levels 16-20: +4

    or

    Levels 1-4: +1
    Levels 5-8: +2
    Levels 9-12: +3
    Levels 13-16: +4
    Levels 17-20: +5

    and just apply to X list of Feats [i.e. Dodge, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, etc... but don't stack it with the 'improved versions']
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-05-24 at 09:35 PM.
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