Complete Mage questions

[Jimp]

I was thinking about trying a Wizard/Master Specialist/Abjurant Champion/Shadowcraft Mage build. No real mega optimisation going on, it would just work really well with a character idea.
1. What does everyone think about the two classes from Complete Mage? Are they worth it? My specialised school will be Illusion, banning Evocation and Enchantment. Also, I am aware of the awesome shadowcraft mage build but I can't use the class from the Underdark book.
2. What does everyone think about the Stalwart Sorcerer variant? This is not related to the above build.

[ArmorArmadillo]

I was thinking about trying a Wizard/Master Specialist/Abjurant Champion/Shadowcraft Mage build. No real mega optimisation going on, it would just work really well with a character idea.
1. What does everyone think about the two classes from Complete Mage? Are they worth it? My specialised school will be Illusion, banning Evocation and Enchantment. Also, I am aware of the awesome shadowcraft mage build but I can't use the class from the Underdark book.
2. What does everyone think about the Stalwart Sorcerer variant? This is not related to the above build.

1. Master Specialist is cool, for a specialist wizard. I mean, it's hard to judge balance of Wizard PrCs, as wizards are already so far beyond everyone else. Abjurant champion is ridiculously good, to the point of being overpowered.

2. I think it's a decent idea, but more spells are almost always better than extra hit points, as mages rarely end up in the way of serious harm.

[ZeroNumerous]

Sorcerer is often considered 'Wizard Lite', as such, when you pick Sorcerer you generally go with things that are more for flavor than for Batman(TM) building. With that in mind, Stalwart Sorcerer is fine if you're doing it for flavor. Otherwise, pick up Improved Toughness. Same thing.

[Dark Tira]

Stalwart Sorceror is pretty sweet when combined with the Battle Sorceror variant from Unearthed Arcana. The disadvantage is pretty much negated and 1d8+2 base hp per level is about equivalent to barbarian hp.


It's not even close to taking Improved Toughness, it's like taking Improved Toughness x2, and Weapon Focus. I consider 1 spell known for the equivalent of 3 feats to be a fair deal.

[Ivius]

Stalwart Sorceror is pretty sweet when combined with the Battle Sorceror variant from Unearthed Arcana. The disadvantage is pretty much negated and 1d8+2 base hp per level is about equivalent to barbarian hp.


It's not even close to taking Improved Toughness, it's like taking Improved Toughness x2, and Weapon Focus. I consider 1 spell known for the equivalent of 3 feats to be a fair deal.

But at this point, in terms of flavor, you're playing a Duskblade.

[Fax Celestis]

But at this point, in terms of flavor, you're playing a Duskblade.

Ah, but its a Duskblade with 9th level spell access.

[ArmorArmadillo]

But at this point, in terms of flavor, you're playing a Duskblade.

And not quite so overpowering.

[ravenkith]

Abjurant champion: If you have room in your build, shoehorn this one in. It's all good, and doesn't even hurt your caster level. If you are playing a sorceror, this is one of the three best classes out there for you.

Master specialist: AFAIK, the only PRC you can get into at 4th level. If you're playing a specialist wizard, this is the way to go.

Try combining Abjurer/Master Specialist: Abjuration/Abjurant Champion/Initiate of the sevenfold Veil...mix any way you like, but specialize in counterspelling...and have fun playing the equivalent of a MTG denial deck.

[Fourth Tempter]

And not quite so overpowering.

I am uncertain as to why you seem to think that the Duskblade, which casts far lower-level spells, will be more overpowering than any variant on a "true" fighter-mage such as the Battle Sorcerer.

[ArmorArmadillo]

I am uncertain as to why you seem to think that the Duskblade, which casts far lower-level spells, will be more overpowering than any variant on a "true" fighter-mage such as the Battle Sorcerer.

It's the insane amount of single turn damage dealing the Duskblade is capable of, second only to perhaps a minmaxed Psion.

Also, at lower-mid levels, Duskblade serves as a full-power melee combatant in addition to his (often automatically quickened) spells.

The dusblade also reaches a significant level of its power a lot earlier, and for a longer period, than a battle-sorc.

[Dark Tira]

It's the insane amount of single turn damage dealing the Duskblade is capable of, second only to perhaps a minmaxed Psion.

Also, at lower-mid levels, Duskblade serves as a full-power melee combatant in addition to his (often automatically quickened) spells.

The dusblade also reaches a significant level of its power a lot earlier, and for a longer period, than a battle-sorc.

That's a pretty arbitrary statement. The Duskblade is good at dealing damage, but depending on how it's built a Battle Sorceror can outstrip a Duskblade at most levels. I mean, Wraithstrike alone gives the Battle Sorceror an incomparable advantage in melee.

[Tellah]

It's the insane amount of single turn damage dealing the Duskblade is capable of, second only to perhaps a minmaxed Psion.

Yeah, but numerical damage sucks. If you define "overpowered" as "better than a Fighter," then I'll grant that Duskblades are overpowered. If you compare them to legitimately powerful character classes, like Clerics, Druids, Artificers, and Wizards, then they look pretty tame.

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah, but numerical damage sucks. If you define "overpowered" as "better than a Fighter," then I'll grant that Duskblades are overpowered. If you compare them to legitimately powerful character classes, like Clerics, Druids, Artificers, and Wizards, then they look pretty tame.

They are pretty tame, unless you swap them to a spellpoint caster system. In which case, they start rocking the casbah.