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Thread: Unholy Toughness?
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2007-05-20, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Unholy Toughness?
I've heard of an ability or feat that allows undead to add their charisma modifiers to HP. I'm really not sure one exists, or if it's just specific to a few certain undead creatures. I ask because for fun, I made an ECL 30 undead character, with only 175 hp(including improved toughness)... I'm not impressed with that, so I want a boost. If anyone could help me I would be most appreciative.
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2007-05-20, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
It first appears in Lirbis Mortis: The Book of Undead, IIRC. It is Charisma to HP.
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2007-05-20, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-05-20, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
No. Ability of the creature.
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2007-05-20, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
I don't see any feat like that in the libris mortis. But this thread
http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_arch.../t-354813.html
from the wizards board discusses this.
Seems that monster manual 3 has a special quality called unholy toughness, that lets you do this.*avatar courtesy of Dr. Bath*
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2007-05-20, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
I thought Libris Mortis had it as an ability on some monsters as well. I know its in Lords of Madness.
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2007-05-20, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Yeah, it's on a select few monsters in LM and MM3 - the Dicefreaks guys like to add it to their undead templates at higher levels too. It's not a feat because it'd be too powerful at anything less than an Epic feat...one of the undead's primary weaknesses to compensate for their strengths and long list of resistances/immunities is that if you can actually land a blow and deal some damage, they usually can't take a whole lot of hurt. For undead PC's, it's even worse, as Constitution can literally be ignored/minimaxed out of existence, as it changes to a "-" when creation is finished. Now it's like creating a character with only 5 stats to worry about, and frees up the points a living character would spend in Con to keep themselves from croaking, and can put them into Cha for bonus HP, bonuses to any racial ability DC's, and even spells (for undead sorcerers/favored souls/etc.).
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2007-05-20, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Glyph is pretty much right on with his comments. There really couldn't be a feat equivalent to Unholy Toughness without going epic. Heck, even at epic levels that would be a truly horrific feat to face. However, you have an epic character, and epic characters are known for their strange and powerful abilities. While I still wouldn't allow Unholy Toughness, you could try and see if your DM would allow this...
Undead Resilence [EPIC]
Prereq: Undead type, Cha 15
You may add one-half your Charisma modifier to your dice rolls when determining your bonus hit points. Otherwise, this functions as if you were alive and were adding your Constitution modifier.
I don't think that's too bad for an Epic feat.
EDIT: Yes, I made that up. Homebrew feats are fun.Last edited by Everyman; 2007-05-20 at 08:53 PM.
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2007-05-20, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
I don't think it's nearly as powerful as some people are making it out to be. You'd need a Cha of more than {HD*2}+10 to break it. If you're really that upset about it, go look at the Feat in PHB2 that lets you use Wisdom instead of Constitution for your HP(something like that. I think it was Wis mod for 1st level HP, and 1 more per level up).
Last edited by AtomicKitKat; 2007-05-20 at 11:32 PM.
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2007-05-20, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-05-21, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
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2007-05-21, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Quoted directly from the WotC website:
Beauty's Bounty [General]
You rely on your charm and physical good looks to keep you safe from harm
Prerequisite: Fey
Benefit: At 1st level, you may use your Charisma modifier instead of your Constitution modifier to determine bonus hit points. At each level thereafter, you use your Constitution modifier normally to determine bonus hit points, but you also gain +1 hit point for every point of permanent Charisma you gain. In addition, Charisma increases can retroactively increase the bonus hit points from your first level.
Should you suffer any Charisma decreases, your bonus hit points from your first level also decrease, and you lose any extra bonus hit points you have gained from Charisma increases. These hit point decreases persist for as long as your Charisma decrease lasts.Last edited by Person_Man; 2007-05-21 at 12:38 PM.
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2007-05-21, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Charisma is highly useful for the classes that use it, which is why such feats are handy. I'd pay two or three feats for the ability to have my sorceror use Charisma instead of Con for hit points.
One of my favorite parts of Iron Heroes is the trait that lets you pick one stat and use it in place of Strength for a particular weapon. That one trait adds so many new options for designing an effective character.Last edited by Dausuul; 2007-05-21 at 09:09 AM.
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2007-05-21, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
President of the Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustment(SHELA)
Glowing Kitty from Lilly
Wren Worgatar by Mephibosheth
The Living Bullet!
Unusual Inner Animal Avatar from Quincunx.
Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.
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2007-05-21, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Serenity is a Dragon Magazine feat that moves all of your Paladin bonuses from Cha to Wis. Zen Archery moves your ranged attacks from Dex to Wis.
More here.
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2007-05-21, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-05-21, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Cancel that, I just found it through an online source. "Wisdom breeds caution" from Underdark p27.
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2007-05-21, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
You're talking about undead being broken. lets see what exactly undead get as their traits for their type:
Originally Posted by SRD
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2007-05-21, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
The only advantage Undead have with their HD is that you get 1d12 for all your Hit Dice forever more. Which makes the Emancipated Spawn kind of stupid. "You regain all your class features, including Hit Dice." Seriously, WTF? Part of the whole smegging point of becoming Undead in the first place is so I could replace the 1d4-5(practically dead Venerable Elf who put a 9 in Constitution at CharGen) with 1d12(+ whatever). Utterly stupid. The whole 1d12 HD comes from being Undead. Has nothing whatsoever to do with being a spawn(aside from the incidental being killed by your former master in order to become Undead to begin with).
President of the Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustment(SHELA)
Glowing Kitty from Lilly
Wren Worgatar by Mephibosheth
The Living Bullet!
Unusual Inner Animal Avatar from Quincunx.
Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.
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2007-05-21, 11:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unholy Toughness?
Serenity is awesome. I wish I had found that feat before I made a monk/paladin, which I'm aware (ahem, Person_Man) is unoptimized at any rate. A monk/paladin with Ascetic Knight, and using Wisdom for saves is very nice. Reduces the MAD to Wis/Dex/Con/Str, and take off Str if you have Intuitive Attack (at the cost of a little damage)