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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Robilar's Gambit

    from the PBHII. Basically, enemy gets bonus to attack/damage against you, and every time he swings, you get a free AoO against him.

    My question is, what are people's opinions on this feat? Broken? Balanced? What's the best way to maximize its potential? I know there's the obvious pump-the-AC approach, but is there anything else?
    Last edited by Tyrael; 2007-05-20 at 02:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Cover/Concealment might help. That +4 bonus doesn't matter as much if there's a percentage chance of your opponent missing. And you still get those AoAs.

    By the way, I thought that Robilar's Gambit was in PHB2
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Edited with correct citation. He gains a +4 to attack/damage, so I guess that at least negates the penalty.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Ah, but the bonus does nothing for concealment, which has gives you a chance of your opponent missing no matter what.

    Robilar's Gambit is also useful against monsters that have such high attack bonuses that it becomes impossible for them to miss except unless a natural 1is rolled.
    Last edited by kpenguin; 2007-05-20 at 02:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post

    Robilar's Gambit is also useful against monsters that have such high attack bonuses that it becomes impossible for them to miss except unless a natural 1is rolled.
    On the other hand, + 4 to damage can be very painful if enemy is two weapon fighter/ hydra. So better don't use it against enemies who have many attacks.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    It's not overpowered on its own -- even with Combat Reflexes, you're limited (by your Dex modifier) in the number of AoOs you can make. And any situation where you can ignore the penalties is the sort of situation you're going to steamroll through anyway.

    Now, as far as maximizing its usefulness...isn't there a feat (Karmic Strike or something?) that does damage to an enemy based on how much damage you've recently received?

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    You know, strictly reading the feat....it says that the enemy provokes an AoO every time he attacks. Doesn't say every time he attacks YOU, just every time he attacks. Therefore, by a literal reading, if you designate a foe for this and he attacks another party member, you should get AoOs when he attacks the other person.

    Additionally, I don't see anything that says this cannot be used with ranged weapons.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Cover/Concealment might help. That +4 bonus doesn't matter as much if there's a percentage chance of your opponent missing. And you still get those AoAs.
    Assuming any cover you may have applies only to your opponents attacks and not your own. Not the easiest of situations.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrael View Post
    Additionally, I don't see anything that says this cannot be used with ranged weapons.
    Because you don't threaten with a ranged weapon, and thus can't take AoOs?
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrael View Post
    Additionally, I don't see anything that says this cannot be used with ranged weapons.
    You can't make AOOs with ranged weapons.

    EDIT: Damn, too slow.
    Last edited by Pauwel; 2007-05-20 at 06:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    You can with the spell Arrow Mind. It's in the Spell Compendium and I think it's also in Complete Divine (I may well be mis-remembering this last source).
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Suvarov454 View Post
    You can with the spell Arrow Mind. It's in the Spell Compendium and I think it's also in Complete Divine (I may well be mis-remembering this last source).
    Yeah, you are. It's Complete Adventurer.

    Note Spell Compendium was the most recently published, and, therefore the "official" source. If there's any discrepency between versions, that's the one you should use.

    Of course, I don't own Spell Compendium, so I use the Complete Adventurer version anyway.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Assuming any cover you may have applies only to your opponents attacks and not your own. Not the easiest of situations.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    If you combine it with Channel the Storm (from Stormguard Warrior, TOB page 36) do you get a cumulative +4 for each attack you don't make? If so, then you don't even need Combat Reflexes. Provoke five attacks, refrain from five attacks, and do +20/+20 to each of your own.

    Would that work?
    Last edited by Sulecrist; 2007-05-20 at 12:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulecrist View Post
    If you combine it with Channel the Storm (from Stormguard Warrior, TOB page 36) do you get a cumulative +4 for each attack you don't make? If so, then you don't even need Combat Reflexes. Provoke five attacks, refrain from five attacks, and do +20/+20 to each of your own.

    Would that work?
    Yes. It's a very nifty combo. The more they try to hit you, the more pain they will be in by next round. Only flaw is that they have to be attacking you to use it.

    Robilar's Gambit is also nice with Shock Trooper, because anybody using Shock Trooper has already given up on their chances of not being hit, and the massive Power Attack bonus is still hanging around.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulecrist View Post
    If you combine it with Channel the Storm (from Stormguard Warrior, TOB page 36) do you get a cumulative +4 for each attack you don't make? If so, then you don't even need Combat Reflexes. Provoke five attacks, refrain from five attacks, and do +20/+20 to each of your own.

    Would that work?
    Combine that with the Supreme Blade Parry stance, which gives you DR 5/-, negating the bonus damage given by Robilar's Gambit. Slice, dice, rinse and repeat.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch View Post
    Combine that with the Supreme Blade Parry stance, which gives you DR 5/-, negating the bonus damage given by Robilar's Gambit. Slice, dice, rinse and repeat.
    Where is that feat from?

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Google tells me it's from Tome of Battle.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Elusive Target (CW) is a useful feat to combine with Rolibar's Gambit, or Karmic Strike, for that matter. The +4 to hit means that if your opponent has power attack, he can easily get +4 to +8 extra damage to each of his attacks, which Elusive Target helps to eliminate.

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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Edit: misinterpreted the question. It's from the Tome of Battle.
    Last edited by Mad Wizard; 2007-05-20 at 04:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrael View Post
    Where is that feat from?
    Stormguard Warrior is a feat from Tome of Battle. Supreme Blade Parry isn't actually a feat; you'd need to be a Tome of Battle class to get access to it.

    Karmic Strike is a good one if you've given up on enemies missing you. Elusive Target is just an all-around good feat, I think.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulecrist
    If you combine it with Channel the Storm (from Stormguard Warrior, TOB page 36) do you get a cumulative +4 for each attack you don't make? If so, then you don't even need Combat Reflexes. Provoke five attacks, refrain from five attacks, and do +20/+20 to each of your own.

    Would that work?
    Yes, yes it will. Supreme Blade Parry is definitely not the way to go here, however.

    What you need to do is get Combat Expertise since you can compensate the attack bonus creatures get against you with it. Furthermore, for a truly Channel the Storm-centric build you can get Defensive Sweep (PHB2) and Thicket of Blades stance (Devoted Spirit 3rd level stance) while wielding something along the lines of a Spiked Chain.

    Another concept is using Robilar's Gambit with Evasive Reflexes (ToB feat) and Shifting Defense (Setting Sun stance), allowing you to move 10 feet whenever someone misses you (out of the reach of many opponents, ideally within your reach).
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by IonizedChicken View Post
    Another concept is using Robilar's Gambit with Evasive Reflexes (ToB feat) and Shifting Defense (Setting Sun stance), allowing you to move 10 feet whenever someone misses you (out of the reach of many opponents, ideally within your reach).
    Without a one-level dip in swordsage, Shifting Defense is overly feat-intensive. If you're a warblade, it's better to just take Press the Advantage instead.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    if you have a large AC it can be devastating. but with it's pre req's and other feats needed to exploit it to its full advantage it's a large investment.
    Last edited by the_tick_rules; 2007-05-20 at 05:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Indeed. I completely forgot about that stance. Though, in my defense, Shifting Defense is only feat intensive if you choose to get it using silly methods. The ideal way would be getting an Item of Setting Sun and then taking Martial Stance.

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    What, Robilar's Gambit? The investment pays off, definitely. Most of the other feats are generally very good to have even if you didn't have Robilar's Gambit.
    Last edited by IonizedChicken; 2007-05-20 at 06:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by IonizedChicken View Post
    Indeed. I completely forgot about that stance. Though, in my defense, Shifting Defense is only feat intensive if you choose to get it using silly methods. The ideal way would be getting an Item of Setting Sun and then taking Martial Stance.
    Shifting Defense needs two prereq maneuvers to get it, so it's still costing two feats: the one for Shifting Defense itself and the one for either a Setting Sun maneuver or a way to wear two pairs of slippers.

    Call me lazy, but I'd rather just take the White Raven at 10th and save myself the trouble.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edo View Post
    Call me lazy, but I'd rather just take the White Raven at 10th and save myself the trouble.
    You think you're lazy? I'd just spend all my feats and wealth on offense and hope everything is dead before my massive damage intake catches up to me. Power Attacking Barbarian with a dang expensive scythe and Reckless Assault! Kil, kill, kill! (Though obviously there's a problem with this: You need Dex for Gambit and Str for using a two-hander well. Still...)
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    You know, this would be an interesting feat for a Swiftblade to pick up. The miss chance they almost always have would sync very well with the extra attacks. Besides, giving a speed-freak more attacks per round in a crazy, reckless manner just sounds like something a swiftblade would do.
    Last edited by Everyman; 2007-05-20 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabattus View Post
    Three words: Cloak of Displacement.
    A cloak of displacement only grants the miss chance of concealment. It does not grant actual concealment or any of the other benefits of concealment.
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    Default Re: Robilar's Gambit

    How come nobody has suggested using this with crusader yet to make the most of that counter attack ability of it if you do get hit. If they miss, you get your free attack, if they hit you get your free attack that does more damage as well. Seems pretty solid if you ask me.
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