Damage Reduction vs Energy Resistance

[Thealtruistorc]

This has come up many times over my gaming experiences, and I have had more and more questions about how these two interact.

If a creature with DR 2/- and fire resistance 5 is hit with a fireball, is the damage reduced by 5 or 7? Likewise, what happens to a creauture with DR 5/good when an orb of force nails it?

[Troacctid]

Damage reduction only applies to weapon attacks. Spells ignore it. In your first case, the damage is reduced by 5. In the second case, it is not reduced.

[Chronos]

Damage reduction doesn't do anything at all versus energy damage, just versus weapons. So the fireball and the orb of force will both ignore it. The fireball will be reduced by 5 by the fire resistance, and the orb of force will do full damage.

Hardness does apply to all sources of damage, but that's usually just for objects: It's uncommon for creatures to have hardness, and those few that do are usually constructs.

[Necroticplague]

They don't interact at all. One protect from an energy, the other from physical damage. They don't ever come up at the same time.

[Rijan_Sai]

They don't interact at all. One protect from an energy, the other from physical damage. They don't ever come up at the same time.

+1 Flaming Greatsword vs. Skeleton with Resist Energy (Fire)?

sorry, I had to...

Edit: Fixing bad quote formatting before Mod uses Turn Unthread...

[Crake]

[QUOTE=Rijan_Sai;19126258]

They don't interact at all. One protect from an energy, the other from physical damage. They don't ever come up at the same time.[/QUOTE]

+1 Flaming Greatsword vs. Skeleton with Resist Energy (Fire)?

sorry, I had to...

Saw the white text as I was "um, actually" quoting

[Jeraa]

Smacking someone with a torch also does bludgeoning damage and fire damage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Straight from the special ability description for Damage Reduction: "A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below."

So if a spell or magical ability deals piercing damage, such as Crystal Shard, it will ignore the damage reduction. Only weapon attacks (manufactured weapons and natural weapons) are reduced by DR, not spells, even if they deal the same type of damage as weapons normally do.

[ZamielVanWeber]

So if a spell or magical ability deals piercing damage, such as Crystal Shard, it will ignore the damage reduction. Only weapon attacks (manufactured weapons and natural weapons) are reduced by DR, not spells, even if they deal the same type of damage as weapons normally do.

I believe Complete Psionics changed that, but it is utterly nonsensical so I would recommend ignoring it (like 9/10 of CPsi).

[Necroticplague]

I believe Complete Psionics changed that, but it is utterly nonsensical so I would recommend ignoring it (like 9/10 of CPsi).

They did, but only for powers, so, say Hail of Stones can still ignore both DR (its a spell), and ER (which doesn't apply to bludgeoning.

Support ignoring CPsi's idiotic nerfs (like this, and only having one AC out at a time).

[Surpriser]

Warning, Houserule!
We have always played it as: If the ability allows SR, it does not allow DR and if not, DR applies normally for damage with some appropriate physical representation.
The reason for this is, if you have DR X/bludgeoning and are hit by a boulder, you don't care whether that stone was thrown by a giant or created above your head by wizard. Spells which do not allow SR obviously create something "real", that is not depending on magic to exist (after completion of the spell).

I know RAW is different and YMMV, but this just seems sensible and nerfs casters just a bit.

[Berenger]

What about weapons that deal energy damage (tazer = electricity, flame thrower = fire...)?

Are these suitable weapons to hunt werewolves with DR 15/silver?

[Curmudgeon]

My house rule is even simpler: DR always applies except for the indicated bypass. Whether the damage comes from a spell or directly from a weapon is irrelevant.

[Surpriser]

What about weapons that deal energy damage (tazer = electricity, flame thrower = fire...)?

Are these suitable weapons to hunt werewolves with DR 15/silver?

To be honest, I don't think DR/silver is a good choice to represent the classical werewolf. Some sort of regeneration that is blocked by silver seems much more appropriate. But I guess, regeneration is reserved for trolls mostly...

To answer your question: RAW, a flame-thrower is just as deadly to a werewolf as to the ordinary human because DR does not apply to energy attacks.

[Bohandas]

Damage reduction only applies to weapon attacks. Spells ignore it. In your first case, the damage is reduced by 5. In the second case, it is not reduced.

I think technically it applies to anything that does slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage.

[Necroticplague]

I think technically it applies to anything that does slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage.

Nope.

A creature with this special quality (extraordinary or supernatural) ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

Only weapons and natural attacks are effected by DR.

[Âmesang]

It always made sense to me that damage reduction would apply to spells that dealt bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage; or at least that it applied to anything that dealt such damage… like falling?

To be honest, I don't think DR/silver is a good choice to represent the classical werewolf.

If by "classic" you mean Lon Chaney, Jr.'s Wolfman. Classic movie, definitely… but that's where the "silver harms werewolves" thing comes from.

[SangoProduction]

To be honest, I don't think DR/silver is a good choice to represent the classical werewolf. Some sort of regeneration that is blocked by silver seems much more appropriate. But I guess, regeneration is reserved for trolls mostly...

To answer your question: RAW, a flame-thrower is just as deadly to a werewolf as to the ordinary human because DR does not apply to energy attacks.

DR can be fluffed as simply fast regeneration that doesn't regrow entire limbs....in fact that's kinda the standard fluff, save for minor DRs, like the Barbarians, which is just ignoring pain.

[Zanos]

They did, but only for powers, so, say Hail of Stones can still ignore both DR (its a spell), and ER (which doesn't apply to bludgeoning.

Support ignoring CPsi's idiotic nerfs (like this, and only having one AC out at a time).

I believe most spells that do weapon damage types have lower base damages to compensate for the lack of resistance against them anyway. They were actually designed with this rule in mind.

[erok0809]

Personally, I feel that if spells that dealt weapon damage weren't meant to have DR affect them then they wouldn't have bothered calling out the damage type in the first place. That seems pointless if it wasn't going to matter for DR, which is practically the only case where weapon damage type matters, as far as I can tell.

[Bohandas]

DR can be fluffed as simply fast regeneration that doesn't regrow entire limbs....in fact that's kinda the standard fluff, save for minor DRs, like the Barbarians, which is just ignoring pain.

I think he means mechanically regeneration penetrated by silver better represents a classic werewolf