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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    The edits are continuing. It should be done within a few days.

    Spoiler: Disclamer
    Show

    I've seen some really great alignment guides, so I want to see if I can make a donation to the community. I got my friend pieman2945 to work on this project with me. If the post is under one of our names, that doesn't mean that the poster is the one who wrote it.
    There are already two guides out there, so we hope to provide a different perspective on the alignment. We will be packing in a lot of character examples with explanations of most of them. As with most things, it's easier to learn by example.
    WARNING: GoT spoilers, plagiarism, offensive humor, offensive language, and offensive people will show up in this thread. Offensive people will comment on this thread. If you are offended by any of this: GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE. For the rest of you, no throwing food, no obnoxious behavior, no flame wars, and enjoy the guide.
    -FocusWolf


    My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil




    Introduction
    “To be happy we must not be too concerned with others.”
    -Albert Camus

    Neutral evil is fairly commonly decried as the worst alignment, or at least among the least fun to have at your table. Those doing the decrying tend to think of it as a pure backstabbing sociopath, or the stereotypical rogue without the constraints necessary to be a team player. The intention here is to find who those people are and destroy them wholly dissuade that notion, and demonstrate the sheer variety and adaptability of the Neutral Evil alignment and those who fall under it.

    What is Neutral Evil?

    This is what Wizards of the Coast says Neutral Evil is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutral Evil, "Malefactor"
    A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn’t have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

    Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.

    Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation.
    This is a good start, but it bothers me. As with all of the alignments, WotC oversimplified things. Those last three words are the worst, but we'll get to that later.

    Neutral Evil characters are usually based off of a few principles:
    ((Side note: this part requires some proofreading and stuff that I just don't have time for))
    1. Ambition:
      Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter
      We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?
      This is generally the start of the road for Evil characters. They see something, they covet it, and they commit reprehensible acts to acquire them. The desire for power, money, a better life, or anything else is what sets a Neutral Evil character down a path, keeps them going, and justifies their actions.
    2. Flexibility: Neutral Evil is all about jumping on opportunities when they present themselves. When one does appear, NE characters are willing to take whatever path is most beneficial or convenient. This could be making bonds, freeing an innocent man tied to a stake, betraying their comrades, donations to orphanages, murder, or anything else. Neutral Evil is about having the flexibility to make choices and act on them without feeling constrained by feelings towards the law or morals.
    3. Immorality: Immorality is another large part of this. As previously stated, when a Neutral Evil character sees something that he wants, you'll be diddly darn sure he's going to try to try to obtain it. He is okay with collateral damage as long as he comes out on top.
    4. Apathy: This one of the defining features of Neutral Evil. Lawful Evil likes hierarchy, order, and tradition. Chaotic Evil often has disdain for the rules. Chaotic Neutral believes in sticking it to the man. Neutral Good is willing to make or break deals in order to do what's right. Neutral Evil just does not care about any of that. None of those philosophies have any real sway over him. Neutral Evil characters usually do not care about the plight of the working man, nor do they feel any compunction to follow or break rules.
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-11 at 11:03 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Archetypes

    Still working slowly

    Archetypes


    Interestingly enough, Neutral Evil has relatively few major archetypes. The ones that I recognize are:

    Pure Evil:



    Selfish Evil:


    Selfish Evil has several sub-archetypes:

    • The Profiteer
    • The Self Proclaimed Hero
    • The Manipulator
    • The Backstabber
    • The Psychopath/Sociopath
    • The Devoted
    • The Driven
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-11 at 12:04 PM.

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    Default Motives, Character Examples

    Motives







    Character Examples and Explanations

    ((This one will probably be split up between me and Pieman))
    There are countless wonderful examples of Neutral Evil characters in popular culture. I picked a handful that I think represent the alignment well.

    Petyr Baelish:
    Spoiler: Picture and Quote
    Show

    Littlefinger is an example of a mix between The Backstabber and The Manipulator. He'll make deals with you, trade with you, earn your trust, then sell you out and literally stab you in the back. He's ambitious and wants power beyond all else, but he learned long ago that he'll never learn by being honest and playing by the rules. He operates by his own set of rules, ones that place all others at a disadvantage. All others are but tools to be used, broken, and thrown away.
    Elim Garak:
    Spoiler: Important Quotes
    Show
    Dr. Julian Bashir: You know, I still have a lot of questions to ask you about your past.
    Elim Garak: I have given you all the answers I'm capable of.
    Dr. Julian Bashir: You've given me answers all right; but they were all different. What I want to know is, out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?
    Elim Garak: My dear Doctor, they're all true.
    Dr. Julian Bashir: Even the lies?
    Elim Garak: Especially the lies.
    -------
    Elim Garak: Lying is a skill like any other, and if you want to maintain a level of excellence you have to practice constantly
    ----
    Dr. Julian Bashir: You'll be fine. It's just a flesh wound.
    Garak: That was awfully close. What if you'd killed me?
    Dr. Julian Bashir: What makes you think I wasn't trying?
    Garak: Doctor, I do believe there's hope for you yet.
    Dr. Julian Bashir: Well, I'm so relieved!
    ------
    Garak: Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
    ------
    Chief O'Brien: There are rules, Garak, even in a war.
    Garak: Correction. Humans have rules in war. Rules that tend to make victory a little harder to achieve, in my opinion.

    Elim Garak is a very peculiar example of Neutral Evil. By the end of DS9, it became very hard to really pin down his alignment. However, all of the advice that he gives is solidly Neutral Evil. Out of context, he can be construed as Chaotic, however in context, his words and actions don't have that connotation. If you want a confusing character that nobody will be able to figure out, model it off of Garak.
    Bronn:
    Spoiler: Quote
    Show
    TYRION: Tell me, Bronn. If I told you to kill a babe... an infant girl, say, still at her mother's breast... would you do it? Without question?
    BRONN: Without question? No. I'd ask how much.

    Bronn is an example of The Profiteer. He does not care about morals, judgment, or the law. He does not care about freedom, the plight of others, or what his actions do to the world. His service is completely in the hands of the highest bidder.
    Light Yagami:
    Macbeth:
    Glorificus:
    Regina George:
    Sterling Archer:
    The Master:
    Warren Mears:
    Jarlaxle:
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-11 at 04:26 PM.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Number Five
    Player Registry and games Here


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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    And post six.
    Player Registry and games Here


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    Default Stuff and things

    Acknowledgments:


    The thread is open.
    TWO IMPORTANT THINGS TO NOTE
    Please don't post unless you have a quote from Camus. If you do, I won't betray you right away.
    If you have a suggestion, don't post it unless you don't want any credit. I WILL be committing a lot of plagiarism because THAT'S JUST WHAT NEUTRAL EVIL IS.
    Or not.
    I haven't decided yet.
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-11 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Looking forward to this once it's complete: Neutral Evil is hard to define between the extremes of LE and CE.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Looking forward to this once it's complete: Neutral Evil is hard to define between the extremes of LE and CE.
    Pieman and I are probably going to finish this one up by Monday. Between my college apps and his activities (torture dungeon) we haven't really been able to put a lot of time into it. We've drafted everything, but we need to just work on the phrasing.

    Thanks for the kind words. You won't be disappointed.

    I see you shiver with antici-
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-10 at 11:43 AM.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by FocusWolf413 View Post
    I see you shiver with antici-
    Say it!

    SAY IT!
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Say it!

    SAY IT!
    Patience, my friend.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Patience, my friend.
    Never been to the live show, have you?

    There are rules, man. There are standards.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Never been to the live show, have you?

    There are rules, man. There are standards.
    I have, actually...but I prefer to go with the flow, you know bro?


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Oh, this is why I love Evil - they have a hilariously sick sense of humor.
    Dark Red, the Voice of the Dragon

    Extended Signature Link

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    How much terrain does the forty foot long, flying, fire breathing lizard which may or may not have magic consider its domain?

    As much as it god damn wants.
    Avatar by thoroughlyS

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I have, actually...but I prefer to go with the flow, you know bro?
    Seriously, that hurts my eyes, trying to read that. I'm just going to assume you said something awkwardly foolish and mock you ruthlessly about it.
    This is officially my new policy when you type in an illegible font - I assume you wrote something for which you need to be mocked.
    Oh, AV, don't be silly, rocks aren't food.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Seriously, that hurts my eyes, trying to read that. I'm just going to assume you said something awkwardly foolish and mock you ruthlessly about it.
    This is officially my new policy when you type in an illegible font - I assume you wrote something for which you need to be mocked.
    Oh, AV, don't be silly, rocks aren't food.
    I expect nothing less from an arrogant, micromanaging control freak such as yourself.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Never been to the live show, have you?
    There are rules, man. There are standards.
    Not Halloween yet. Or midnight.

    Then again, this'll be the first holiday in like 15 years that I haven't been involved so I can't be too critical. I feel your pain

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Focus, I saw that you asked for feedback on the main alignment thread. Here it goes:

    1. You've got the principles of nuetral evil right, at least for the NE of the selfish variety. A 5th principle, Malice, might be added for those who are doing evil for its own sake or at least for the sake of pleasure. The other principles certainly touch on this, but I feel it wouldn't hurt to have it said directly.

    2. Just curious, do you plan to create subcategories for the Pure evil types? The only one I could think of is the "make everything void" variety, like Shar from the forgotten realms. I'm sure other types exist, I just cant think of them at the moment.

    3. Good work with the examples you've chosen so far. No criticisms there.

    4. You probably already plan on doing this, but I would definitely include a section later on about how to lay nuetral evil while still playing a game that the rest of the party can enjoy.

    That's all I've got now, but I'd be more than happy to provide more feedback when you've got more content up.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Does Gabriel Belmont from Castlevania counts as an example of neutral evil? If not can someone tell what his alignment would be?

    Also great guide, I will definitely keep that in mind when I build a new character. I always wanted a sort of guideline to follow when I ever decide to pick this particular alignment. Though is it possible to assume that it can also be a grey area in some ways; or am I wrong?
    Last edited by ghostfreak24; 2015-10-14 at 07:36 PM.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    A 5th principle, Malice, might be added for those who are doing evil for its own sake or at least for the sake of pleasure.
    Seconded. The Yugoloths' race goals are this^, so it's already extant in-universe.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    Seconded. The Yugoloths' race goals are this^, so it's already extant in-universe.
    Could I possibly get a source on that? I thought that the Yugolgoloths were the embodiment of the "what's in it for me" attitude, with all other concerns being completely irrelevant?

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Oh baby. Get pumped.
    Spoiler
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    If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    Focus, I saw that you asked for feedback on the main alignment thread. Here it goes:

    1. You've got the principles of nuetral evil right, at least for the NE of the selfish variety. A 5th principle, Malice, might be added for those who are doing evil for its own sake or at least for the sake of pleasure. The other principles certainly touch on this, but I feel it wouldn't hurt to have it said directly.
    I'll definitely add that in and I'm definitely not going to give you credit in black. Yknow, neutral evil and all...
    But anyone who reads this will know I got the idea from you. I do have a fun idea for actually giving people credit because I actually really appreciate the community here.

    2. Just curious, do you plan to create subcategories for the Pure evil types? The only one I could think of is the "make everything void" variety, like Shar from the forgotten realms. I'm sure other types exist, I just cant think of them at the moment.
    Maybe a couple? It's really kind of difficult to say. Many of the selfish subtypes are just more personal and slightly tainted versions of the Pure Evil subtypes. Malice probably fits in there the best. I'll work on it.

    3. Good work with the examples you've chosen so far. No criticisms there.
    Pieman has another 5-15 he'll do eventually.
    Thanks for the reassurance.
    4. You probably already plan on doing this, but I would definitely include a section later on about how to lay nuetral evil while still playing a game that the rest of the party can enjoy.

    That's all I've got now, but I'd be more than happy to provide more feedback when you've got more content up.
    I think pieman is going to work on that part. Idk, though.

    THANK YOU for the criticism. Looking at my schedule, I'll probably finish by the 25th.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    Seconded. The Yugoloths' race goals are this^, so it's already extant in-universe.
    I think the Yugoloths might fall under Pure Evil more. They had the impurities caused by law and chaos distilled out of their minds long ago. The lawful and chaotic slag was the larvae that became the demons and devils. While they might show some essences of malice, I think that's more of a byproduct than a category. They're more like The First Evil from Buffy.
    Last edited by FocusWolf413; 2015-10-15 at 01:29 AM.

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    Default Re: My Will, or I Won't: A Guide to Neutral Evil [UNDER CONSTRUCTION]

    Quote Originally Posted by FocusWolf413 View Post
    I think the Yugoloths might fall under Pure Evil more.
    Oops. Yeah. That's what I meant. I read those paragraphs almost back-to-back on that post, and accidentally juggled the types.

    Well, regardless, it makes a good go-to for something, right? Yay 'Murica??

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