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    I made a guide. It's not like I did it for you, or anything.




    Making Cliches Suck Less, Vol. I:
    Getting Dere is Half the Fun


    "I was pouring out on him everything that was in my heart, cries of anger and cries of joy."
    - Albert Camus


    I. Introduction

    Inspired by this thread, I realized that there are certain archetypes which some players, jokingly or otherwise, attempt to play. I decided, "Well, if I can write a guide to the Lawful Evil alignment, surely I can write a humorous and engaging guide to playing a borderline psychotic character without it turning into a tired cliche."

    So, challenge accepted. This is a guide to how to play the four classic "dere" archetypes - the Tsundere, Yandere, Kuudere, and oft-overlooked Dandere. The goal is to help communicate these concepts to those unfamiliar with them, and to offer ways for characters to express these personality traits without becoming grating, hated, obnoxious wastes of flesh who inspire in us the desire for swift, bloody murder.

    Let's see how that works out.

    II. What is a "dere"?


    Shown: Yandere, Kuudere, Tsundere, Dandere.

    In Japanese popular culture, there are four terms to describe (generally) female characters who demonstrate rather severe personality shifts. Generally, these characters are presented as possible romantic interests; the term "dere" comes from deredere, which is an onamotapoetic meaning "lovestruck." Basically, each of these four archetypes presents with a different reaction to romance. In short, they are:

    • Tsundere: Possibly the most well-known of the four deres. The "tsun" in Tsundere comes from tsuntsun, which means to be high and mighty or standoffish. The Tsundere is, in brief, a character who is initially offputting, hostile, or arrogant, but eventually reveals a gentler romantic side.
    • Yandere: Possibly the most terrifying of the four deres. The "yan" in Yandere comes from yanderu, which means to be sick, in this case mentally. The Yandere is in some ways the opposite of the Tsundere. While the Tsundere is initially hostile, but becomes warm and romantic, the Yandere is initially romantic, but becomes obsessive and psychotic.
    • Kuudere: Possibly the most adorable of the deres. The "kuu" in Kuudere comes from kuuru, the Japanese pronunciation of "cool." This is the defining trait of the Kuudere; she is initially cold and distant, but warms up over time. The Kuudere is similar to the Tsundere, but in another direction; where the Tsundere is initially hot-blooded and off-putting, but becomes warm and affectionate, the Kuudere is initially cold-blooded and distant, but reveals a caring side.
    • Dandere: Possibly the most unknown of the deres. The "dan" in Dandere comes from danmari, meaning silent. The Dandere is a character who comes across as antisocial until she finds the right person. Once such a person is found, the Dandere becomes friendly and even playful. Dandere is often confused with Kuudere, but while Danderes are simply antisocial or awkward, Kuuderes come across as virtually emotionless.

    So, what's the point of all this? Well, if you play a dere archetype as written, chances are your character will be obnoxious and unlikable. Not to mention the fact that these are primarily romantic archetypes, and if you're not playing in a romantic game, that can get super awkward. So the goal here is to find a way to play these archetypes with depth and complexity that makes them less odious, and to find a way to use them outside of a romantic context.

    Unless you're playing a harem comedy game. In which case, heaven have mercy on you.

    After a brief recess, we'll discuss each of these archetypes in more detail.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2016-04-28 at 02:37 PM.
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    III. Tsundere



    "Why, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder!"
    Princess Leia Organa, Star Wars

    A. So What Is It?

    A Tsundere is, traditionally, a strong, independent, and hostile character who harbors a secret, affectionate side. When confronted with evidence of this inner gentleness, the Tsundere's natural reaction is hostile - insults, loud voices, and occasionally physical violence.

    Picture the scene. Tsundere has brought Protagonist a boxed lunch that she made herself. She is blushing furiously. "I made some," she says, "and I had some left over. It's not like I did it just for you, or anything." He takes a bite and smiles. "It's good! Thanks!" She blushes even more, and starts stammering. "Y-y-you... You JERK!" And then she punches him in the face.

    B. So What's Wrong With That?

    Well, to put it simply, Tsundere occupy that nexus point between overplayed and unpleasant. Tsunderes have been done well, done poorly, and done very poorly, but more importantly they've been done. There are just so many illustrations, and they get annoying.

    Take a moment to think about a character who is capable, confident, and on point, and yet anytime she does anything helpful, her natural reaction is to lose her composure and become a complete jerk. It's unpleasant. You don't want to be around people like that. Your characters shouldn't want to be around people like that.

    C. So How Can I Do It Better?

    Step one is to understand the motivation that makes a person Tsundere. A classic example of this is pressure. The Tsundere has to be the best. She has to be strong, smart, graceful, capable. She doesn't do well with competition, she doesn't do well with weakness, and she doesn't like people seeing things in her that she hates.

    Because that's the key. The Tsundere hates her inner gentle nature, seeing it as a flaw. So when other people see it in her - or when she sees it in others - her natural reaction is hostility.

    Having identified the core of the Tsundere, the next step is to make it less frustrating to deal with. Having characters who value their own strength or abilities is normal. Having characters who dislike one of their own traits is normal. Play it that way. A character who tries to suppress or conceal a gentle nature or a warm heart. Tone down the aggression and hostility, saving it for precise and rare scenes rather than constant abuse. Allow the character to show some weakness, which is what the Tsundere's character arc inevitably leads to anyways. Do that, and maybe people might even like your Tsundere.

    Next, we embrace her strong suit. The Tsundere's strength is, appropriately, strength. She has to be the best. The smartest, the strongest, the hardest-working. She has to know it, and she has to show it. The drive to be great isn't a bad thing. We can temper her arrogance about it a bit, but there's no harm in being just a bit proud of your awesomeness.

    Against that, we balance her weakness, which is her fear of weakness. Because she has to be strong, she's afraid of being weak. That makes sense, and it also gives her an expressable vulnerability. But even with a fear of weakness, you can do positive things. That fear of weakness becomes a driving force, and can afford her some emotional moments when she realizes that depending on others doesn't have to mean weakness.

    Put together, the Tsundere becomes an achiever. In a fantasy setting, she could be the prodigy wizard or the swordsman with an eye on the perfect technique. In a more modern campaign, she could be an all-A student, a model or professional athlete, a CEO, or anybody in an environment that demands constant perfection and scrutinizes one for flaws. In a space setting, she easily fits the mold of the crack marksman or ace pilot.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-10-16 at 12:45 PM.
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    IV. Yandere



    "As though we were made for each other... Beauty and the Beast. Of course, if anyone else calls you beast, I'll rip their lungs out."
    The Joker, Batman (1989)

    A. So What Is It?

    A Yandere is psychotically obsessed with her idealized romantic vision. She will fixate on a person whom she believes to be her romantic partner - whether that person reciprocates or even knows of her affections is irrelevant - and create in her mind an image of how that romance should go. If anyone or anything interferes with that image, her reaction is violent and terrifying. If the object of her affections fails to meet her standards, her violence may even be directed towards him, until he learns his place.

    Picture the scene. Yandere has brought Protagonist a boxed lunch that she made herself. She decorated the box with hearts and spent all weekend practicing how to make his favorite foods. He takes one bite and winces - she practically drowned it in ginger. She sees the gesture, and her eyes widen. "You don't like it?" Then her voice drops into a feral growl. "You don't... like it?" And her fist clenches until she draws blood.

    B. So What's Wrong With That?

    You're playing a stab-happy obsessive delusional lunatic. In most games, absolutely nothing.

    All joking aside, Yandere make terrible characters as written. First, they require a romantic context. Other deres can be played as more general emotional personality types - the Tsundere is proud and conceals softness, the Kuudere is distant and conceals warmth, and the Dandere is antisocial and conceals kindness. The Yandere is specifically fixated on romance.

    More than that, the Yandere is completely, ever-loving insane. You ever read or watch Misery? Annie Wilkes is freaking terrifying. There is no world in which that character plays well with others.

    C. So How Can I Do It Better?

    Step one is softening the romantic angle. It's an integral part of the concept, but it doesn't have to be the sole focus. Allow that the character has a love-issue; she falls in love too easily and has her heart broken quite often by unrealistic expectations. That's not uncommon as a character trait, and frankly makes for some entertaining and emotional plots. Further, if she ever finds true love, it becomes that much more rewarding.

    Step two is tempering her psychotic rage. It's fine to be passionate about things. It's fine to lose it from time to time. But much like we need to ease up on the Tsundere's tendency towards retaliatory abuse, we need to direct the Yandere's passion more productively. Whipping out a chainsaw because another PC commented on her latest failed love affair is bad. But brandishing a weapon and proclaiming herself as a "Warrior for Love and Justice" is fine, if a bit hammy. Work that angle. Become fiercely protective of the idea of love, rather than a particular ideal.

    So we've established that the Yandere has a strong characteristic - her devotion. Yandere are, at their hearts, idealists, devoted to a person and a concept. They create this blissful, albeit delusional, image of their desires, and they let nothing stand in their way. That's a good thing! The trick is harnessing that strong characteristic in a positive direction, rather than a negative direction.

    We have to also embrace the Yandere's negative characteristic - delusion. Now, delusion may be a strong word; it's more of an overdeveloped naive idealism. The point is, the Yandere sees the world as she wants it to be, rather than as it is. Again, that's not a terrible thing - Don Quixote had the same problem, and was an amazing character. You can do positive things with that.

    Thus, the Yandere can become a great zealot; a towering figure or mercy or justice, compassion or fury, depending on where you steer her devotion. It's not far-fetched to suggest that a Yandere, after tempering her more chaotic urges, might make a decent paladin, or champion of a deity of love and justice. In a more modern game, she might be a social activist, an ecoterrorist, a hacktivist, or other person madly devoted to making the world more like she thinks it should be. In a space-themed game, she could be a diplomat, furiously rallying the planetary council, or she could be the ship's engineer, gleefully anthropomorphizing the engine.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-10-16 at 11:39 AM.
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    V. Kuudere



    "I collect spores, molds, and fungus."
    - Egon Spengler, Ghostbusters

    A. So What Is It?

    A Kuudere is a character who doesn't react. She will stand there, that same unresponsive expression, perhaps with a tilted head or slightly raised eyebrow. Deep inside, however, is someone who longs to be the opposite - she wants to react, she wants to rejoice and love and be loved.

    Picture the scene. Kuudere has brought Protagonist a boxed lunch that she made herself. "Social status is frequently measured by the company one keeps," she intones. "Eating beside you will make me appear more approachable." He blinks, and starts to respond, but she interrupts him. "Your conversation is neither necessary nor desired." They eat together in awkward silence.

    B. So What's Wrong With That?

    Did you plan on playing a robot that secretly wants to be human? That's basically how the Kuudere plays until her development arc rolls around. She doesn't react; she speaks in a monotone; at times she alternates between so keenly perceptive she regularly hurts feelings with her blunt observations, and so utterly oblivious to the basics of human interactions that you'd swear her UFO landed yesterday. It's a tired trope that gets old. Nobody needs to hear "What is 'girls night out'?" seventeen times.

    C. So How Can I Do It Better?

    Step one, as with Tsundere, is understanding the motivation. A fairly easy one to grasp is the character who has been repressed all her life. There are ample examples in various media. Perhaps she has a power tied to her emotions, so she has learned to control the former by limiting the latter. Perhaps she lives in a judgmental New England town where everyone knows and watches everyone else, and has learned to comport her behaviors under scrutiny. Whatever the reason, there is a caged beast that has been chained up so long that it has forgotten how to run free.

    Let that passion out. Give the character sudden punctuating bursts of anger, joy, shock, despair, before having her crawl back behind her walls. Teach her to open up in little ways, a joke here (a good one, not a robot one), a smirk there. Let the cracks in the mask become more visible. And when it shatters completely, give her complete joy to make up for the years of empty gray.

    The Kuudere's strength is her composure. She keeps her head when those around her are losing theirs, and that is an awesome talent to have. More importantly, it means that when her composure does break, it becomes more meaningful - or more entertaining.

    Her weakness comes from the same source. It's her emotional distance. This is a hard thing to overcome in a social game, but it's still possible to harness it in a positive direction. Emotional distance gives her a hell of a poker face, for an example. Some situations require severity - war, execution, any scenario where you have to do the hard thing. The Kuudere's emotional wall enables her to do these things in the moment. She can show remorse later.

    The Kuudere naturally gravitates towards scholarly or tedious pursuits, where a more emotional person might experience boredom or frustration. In a fantasy game, she could be the royal treasurer, a monastic martial artist, or an ascetic cleric. In a more modern game, she could be a scientist or librarian, a judge, a military commander, or anyone who needs to keep order with a cool head and a sharp word. In a futuristic game, she could work in a laboratory or as a code monkey, she could be a ship's captain, or she could be the head of a planet-spanning corporation's legal division.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-10-16 at 12:47 PM.
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    VI. Dandere



    "He looked at me."
    Violet Parr, The Incredibles

    A. So What Is It?

    A Dandere is someone who is antisocial while secretly waiting for the right person. Unlike the Kuudere, who is social but unemotive, the Dandere is antisocial, hiding from people or just outright avoiding them. What she really longs for, however, is companionship.

    Picture the scene. Protagonist is sitting down to eat lunch. He turns away for a moment, and when he looks back, his brown-bagged lunch is gone, replaced by a fancier boxed lunch. He doesn't appear to notice a figure crouched in the bushes behind him. He looks around for the lunch's owner, and when nobody comes, he shrugs and starts to eat it. Dandere watches from the bushes while he eats, a faint blush on her face.

    B. So What's Wrong With That?

    Are you a fan of having absolutely no lines of dialogue? It's virtually impossible for a Dandere, as written, to play in a party, unless you keep her hidden behind bushes or around corners, sniping at enemies or throwing out buffs. When a major part of the game is social, playing a character defined by her antisocial nature simply doesn't work.

    C. So How Can I Do It Better?

    Again, step one is understanding her motivation. Perhaps she's insecure about herself, her appearance, or her value as a person. Perhaps she has been belittled about her worth or personality for so long that she has come to believe it. Perhaps she was traumatized, or deeply hurt, by someone close to her. Perhaps she has some dark secret, or believes that she does, which endangers those close to her. Whatever the reason, first you need to know why she keeps herself apart.

    And then, for one brief moment, completely ignore it.

    Find a reason to reach out to the other player characters. Perhaps your character is in danger. Perhaps she is desperate. Perhaps she's drunk. Whatever the reason, have her reach out to others. The Dandere, having bridged that gulf once, will not fully withdraw into herself again. Let the other player characters become the wall she hides behind. She can still be nervous around strangers, still a bit secretive and withdrawn - plenty of characters are - but having made contact with other people, let her cling to that. Not in a creepy way, but if the other player characters are the only people to whom she's gotten close, she should understandably be very protective of them.

    Let her periodically come out of her shell for that reason, too. That willingness to bridge the interpersonal gulf with others in order to intervene on her friends' behalf can still have meaning. Moreso, in some ways, because she'll have allowed her friends to get close to her first.

    You'll find that the strength of a Dandere comes from her willpower. It takes profound strength to keep others away for so long, particularly when you secretly long for companionship. That willpower can be directed into a variety of positive avenues, too numerous to list here.

    However, that strength is offset against her weakness, anxiety. Whatever her reasons, the Dandere fears interaction with others, and that anxiety keeps her away. It is that same anxiety that keeps her from fully harnessing her indomitable willpower. But anxiety isn't a fatal flaw by any definition; as with those of the other deres, it can be harnessed in positive directions. Anxiety keeps the party on their toes, and keeps the Dandere open to the possibility of plans going wrong, and how to prepare for that. The trick is to turn that anxiety into something useful, instead of a wall between the Dandere and other characters.

    In a fantasy campaign, the Dandere tends to be a hermit, like a solitary cleric or druid. In a modern setting, she could be a blogger, a librarian, an archivist, any job that allows her space to herself, and requires others to come to her. In a futuristic setting, she could be a ship's engineer or quartermaster, a recluse with a weird power, or a settler on a largely uninhabited planet.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-10-16 at 12:49 PM.
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    VII. Other Notes

    Just a few quick thoughts.

    A. Why Isn't Yangire Listed?

    First off, let me define Yangire. Yangire is a character who snaps. The term comes from yanderu (sick), like in Yandere, and gire, meaning to cut or snap. It's a character who has a trigger, and when the trigger goes off she goes into a truly disturbing homicidal frenzy. Not the funny sort, like Yandere, that we can laugh at because, ha ha, she's overreacting to things involving the object of her affections. No, this is the scary kind of murder frenzy. (I mean, I would still laugh, but I'm horrible.)

    Yangire isn't on the list for two reasons. First, unlike the dere tropes, which describe a more general personality, Yangire deals with a specific tendency - a tendency to flip out into a murderous rage. That tendency can be applied to almost any character, virtually irrespective of general personality tendencies. Second, the dere tropes are specifically romantic tropes, while the Yangire is a more general, broad trope.

    Basically, it tends to play as highly unstable and schizophrenic. If you want a guide to playing a genuinely insane character, this isn't it.

    B. Seriously, Why Can't I Play a Dere As-Written?

    Let me give you the example of one of the classic archetypes of Tsundere: Asuka Souryuu Langley, from Neon Genesis Evangelion. This is her.


    She is, to my sentiments and those of others, a truly loathsome creature. She constantly belittles those around her, becomes increasingly hostile to those who try to be friendly, has highly inappropriate feelings towards an older man (which edge towards Yandere), becomes increasingly hostile when it is revealed that, no, she is not the single greatest person on the planet, becomes increasingly hostile when required to work with others, becomes increasingly hostile when she does not get her way...

    ... and deep down she's sensitive or something.

    She is the most tsuntsun Tsundere imaginable. Eventually, after many episodes of learning to despise her, we are introduced to her formative tragic moment. For many people, that paints her in a new light, but for some (like me), it's too little, too late.

    You do not want to play this character. You do not want to be in a party with this character. If you met this person at school or at work, you would dislike them, avoid them, or simply hope for their humiliating failure.

    The same holds true of other deres. Dokuro-chan (Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-Chan) is an adorable Yandere, and frequently brutally murders her love interest before bringing him back to life. Rei (Neon Genesis again), Kuudere, is a cold, unemotive doll, sometimes literally. Hinata (Naruto), Dandere, alternates between stealth character and stalker for much of the series. These are characters whose interactions with other characters are at times terrifying, at times obnoxious, and at other times nonexistent - there really is no middle ground.

    Tabletop games are a social exercise. Party dynamics are a social exercise. Unless your players are willing to put up with rotten characters in the party for the sole reason that PCs are to be tolerated, a dere as-written won't fly. That's why you need to temper the dere.

    C. And How Do I Do That?

    Well, I've given illustrations in each section. But the basic idea is to take the defining character trait and make it a more general personality trait. The Tsundere is proud and ashamed of weakness. The Yandere is fiercely protective. The Kuudere is cold and distant. The Dandere is shy or awkward. These are not inherently bad things. It's when they're taken to an irrational extreme, ostensibly for comedy, that they become unplayable.

    So you take these concepts and temper them. Expand on the character, rather than simply using the behavior. Lessen the severity and increase the complexity. Rather than simply having your Tsundere's knee-jerk reaction to be punching someone and calling them a jerk, show emotion. Show some barely-restrained anger, or frustration, or worry. Rather than having your Kuudere stand around staring blankly, have her make awkward attempts at showing emotion. Rather than having your Dandere hiding behind objects, have her metaphorically hide behind her friends. Or literally, if she's tiny, because that's just adorable. Rather than having your Yandere flip out murder everyone, have her murder the ones who deserve it.

    D. Character Growth: The Man vs. Self Conflict

    Part of what defines a -dere is their character growth - for example, from a tsuntsun to a deredere. Part of what defines a badly written -dere is a lack of evolution where you would expect it - where, for example, you see an abundance of tsuntsun, but no real or permanent deredere.

    Character growth is therefore essential to making one of these characters more human, and more relatable. Towards that end, the narrative struggle of Man vs. Self - a character fighting against his or her negative aspects, hangups, and handicaps, and coming out of it a stronger, more whole person - is a vital part of the evolution arc. This sentiment has been expressed downthread, as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahonri Violist View Post
    Some of the -deres already include some element of Man vs Self (which is my absolute favorite story conflict, especially when it's a moral conflict). I feel that adding a constant conscience to Yandere-based characters is another way to temper their psychotic rage (besides just redirecting their passion). This would constantly give them an inner conflict of what they feel is right vs what they want to do. Snapping or feeling hatred at their friends' mistakes fills them with guilt; they strive to fight their enemies without falling into bloodlust.

    This also gives room for a Fall from Grace or a Redemptive Storyline or a story where the antagonists tempt them to give into the dark side, or it can even be a story about maturing and learning to control or direct their urges. Of course, these moral conflicts don't work in every story or game but I simply love stories where the hero (or even the villain) are in conflict with their own feelings.

    I mean, summary: something else that can be done to make the Yandere (and possibly even the Tsundere, I guess) more playable is by making a conscience a defining trait, regardless of whether or not they always follow their conscience.
    This is a solid point. For a character who is known to have a temper, to be combative, or to be possibly psychotic, introducing the element of a constant and consistent conscience creates emotional depth and a bit of healthy drama - it forces the character to confront and hold him- or herself accountable for his or her actions. Similarly, imbuing an emotionally distant character like a kuudere or dandere with a desire for companionship creates an internal conflict to drive that character closer to the party, despite a marked tendency to be otherwise removed or distant.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-12-17 at 09:33 AM.
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    VIII. Acknowledgements

    It's not like you helped, or anything...

    Okay, now open to comments. More content to come.
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    You made this? For us? I-I mean... Not that we like it or anything...

    ...Thanks...

    We're very happy you've shown so much will to craft this up. If you don't finish it, we'll be very sad. Of course you don't want to make us sad...

    sound of knife sharpening in the background

    ... Right, senpai?
    Last edited by Vrock_Summoner; 2015-10-15 at 07:34 PM.

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    Might be useful to add a caption to that gif in the first post telling which type each of those girls are, since they aren't ordered in the same order you used.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
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    Oh my gosh, it really happened. I'm cracking up...

    *tsundere mode activated* Though it's not like I wanted you to do this for us...
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    As much as it god damn wants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    Oh my gosh, it really happened. I'm cracking up...

    *tsundere mode activated* Though it's not like I wanted you to do this for us...
    Actually, I had it mapped out this afternoon when the topic first came up. I just wasn't sure if I wanted to get started on it until people were saying "Why isn't this a thing yet?"

    Right now, the goal is format. I want to communicate (1) what the concept actually is, (2) why making this as a character in any setting other than a harem comedy RPG is a terrible idea, and (3) how to present the character in a way that isn't tantamount to blasphemy.

    ... That's actually a pretty decent format.
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    Default Re: Getting Dere is Half the Fun

    I will be truly fascinated to see examples of Characters that are not simply archetypes, memes, and tropes, that are merely played with and sometimes subverted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Actually, I had it mapped out this afternoon when the topic first came up. I just wasn't sure if I wanted to get started on it until people were saying "Why isn't this a thing yet?"

    Right now, the goal is format. I want to communicate (1) what the concept actually is, (2) why making this as a character in any setting other than a harem comedy RPG is a terrible idea, and (3) how to present the character in a way that isn't tantamount to blasphemy.

    ... That's actually a pretty decent format.
    That's... actually a pretty good idea. I'm surprised you put so much thought and detail into it. Though I would like to say that using a few of the traits of these character types could be usable in other situations, as long as you don't go overboard.
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    I hereby nominate Red Fel for the Nobel Prize in Ropelaying Aids

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    3.5e has Use Rope as a skill.

    Seems wierdly relevant.

    Should I tell the GM I'm playing a 'tsundere', or should I just attempt to play a fleshed-out character who isn't defined by the term 'tsundere'?
    Last edited by goto124; 2015-10-15 at 08:11 PM.

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    Oh wow Deredo
    Curious at what these meant
    And now I do know

    I'm a bit wary of showing these to my players though, we don't really do the R thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I will be truly fascinated to see examples of Characters that are not simply archetypes, memes, and tropes, that are merely played with and sometimes subverted.
    Perhaps a section on how to Lampshade the Deres ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    B. So What's Wrong With That?

    Are you a fan of having absolutely no lines of dialogue?
    This is why "just play yourself" doesn't work for me in TTRPGs. I am basically dandere. >_>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    That's... actually a pretty good idea. I'm surprised you put so much thought and detail into it. Though I would like to say that using a few of the traits of these character types could be usable in other situations, as long as you don't go overboard.
    That's the goal. Playing a full-on dere simply doesn't work well. But playing a character with dere traits can work wonderfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by goto124 View Post
    Should I tell the GM I'm playing a 'tsundere', or should I just attempt to play a fleshed-out character who isn't defined by the term 'tsundere'?
    The second one. Unless you're playing a harem comedy, heaven help you. I don't like labels on my characters. Play a complete person who defies labels. Be awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Perhaps a section on how to Lampshade the Deres ?
    That's part of the goal. They have to be lampshaded or subverted, at least partially, to work in a game. You can't play them as-is.

    And with that, I'm done for the night. Red Fel is exhausted. I welcome comments and suggestions, and will be working on this more over the coming days.
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-10-15 at 08:51 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Subversions of the deres? I think Emi Ibarazaki is an interesting variant of kuudere. She's cheerful and upbeat, until you try to get close to her...

    She's from Katawa Shoujo, by the way.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2015-10-15 at 08:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post

    Perhaps a section on how to Lampshade the Deres ?
    Is it your contention that Lampshading them is not, somehow, playing with the archetypes, memes, and tropes?
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    A practical example of yandere in medieval fantasy, maybe?
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2015-10-16 at 10:05 AM.
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    This might not always work, but it might be useful to have a pet/companion that your character can demonstrate more affection for, and also have that pet/companion be more willing to seek out the other characters as a bridge. This could probably work for everything except Yandere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    This might not always work, but it might be useful to have a pet/companion that your character can demonstrate more affection for, and also have that pet/companion be more willing to seek out the other characters as a bridge. This could probably work for everything except Yandere.
    Well, I could see yandere for a pet/companion too. Mainly in the fact that you'd be affectionate towards it, but hurt it (or nearly kill it, if it's one of those that are designed to be front-line fighters), and the character's berserk button goes off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Is it your contention that Lampshading them is not, somehow, playing with the archetypes, memes, and tropes?
    No of course not.

    I suspect that this works a bit like Rules 34 and 35.

    There's a Trope for every character.

    If for some reason you create a character for which there isn't a Trope, then that character becomes a new Trope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonest View Post
    Subversions of the deres? I think Emi Ibarazaki is an interesting variant of kuudere. She's cheerful and upbeat, until you try to get close to her...

    She's from Katawa Shoujo, by the way.
    Tempting as it may be, I'd like to avoid relying too heavily on anime sources. Too easy, and not accessible to those who don't watch anime.

    Further, I also want illustrations of how these archetypes should be played, as opposed to how they're shown.

    Right now, though, I've kind of hit a speed bump. I know where I want to go with this, but I'm having a tricky time communicating it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonest View Post
    Subversions of the deres? I think Emi Ibarazaki is an interesting variant of kuudere. She's cheerful and upbeat, until you try to get close to her...

    She's from Katawa Shoujo, by the way.
    Emi's the opposite of a kuudere, isn't she? In our own Rainy Knight's High School Harem Comedy game she would be more like a Genki-Sports Star than Kuudere.

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    Aw man, brilliant! Really cool guide, and I love the non-anime examples. The breakdown of each type was great, as well.
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    A dere-guide? Okay, I guess.

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    Red Fel, Dere Master, I bow before your wisdom.

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    I don't see why everyone's making a big deal out of this. It's nothing special.
    But... Well... You can be a little proud of yourself, I guess. If you feel like you have to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    That's the goal. Playing a full-on dere simply doesn't work well. But playing a character with dere traits can work wonderfully.

    The second one. Unless you're playing a harem comedy, heaven help you. I don't like labels on my characters. Play a complete person who defies labels. Be awesome.

    That's part of the goal. They have to be lampshaded or subverted, at least partially, to work in a game. You can't play them as-is.
    I'd disagree with that last statement; It's fine to play 'em straight, as long as you listen to the earlier points.
    These are character traits, not characters. Heck, it's fine if they're the primary defining trait of a character, as long as they're not the only one. And the player should remember that it might never come up during a dungeon-crawl. Okay, so the character probably has comparable reactions to the stress of adventuring, which will make it a little relevant.

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