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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    So, here’s a thread I’ve always wanted to start.
    I’ve wanted to know what people think about these various factions in Warframe compared to the various factions of Warhammer 40k.

    I know that overall the Warframe setting is as a whole the size of a single solar system, due to FTL having been shutdown due to a pregame war, and everyone in Warhammer is a galactic power in their own right, but this isn’t necessarily a versus. I want to compare what people think about the quality of the infantry forces, their replenishment rates, and how well they’d fit in in Warhammer 40k.

    I would have wanted to add questions about ships, but sadly Warframe is rather featless on ship vs ship fights and as far as I know, no planets have been mass scattered yet. Our only feats on that front are that they all can build lots and lots of ships rapidly…So, I would like it if we stuck to infantry or doctrine comparisons.




    First off we have the Grineer, a faction where every soldier is essentially a degenerated clone that makes up for their weaknesses with heavy use of cybernetics that among other things lets them jump 10 feet in an instant, gives them good accuracy at range, and lets them survive without damage from being launched from a cannon (in a “cannon shell”, but said shell comes without any sort of safeties inside, the only thing being a console to open the door). The majority of their forces are heavily armored such that they resemble space marines (in fact, grineer troops are often referred to as “marines”), but I am fairly sure Space Marines outclass them in quite a lot of fields safe recruitment speeds.

    Very militarized and expansionist, the Grineer rely primarily on bullet weaponry and explosives. Sadly, not much feats can be calced up without context, but as a general rule of thumb: Grineer are resistant to their own weaponry, though enough damage from them often results in limbs being blown off… or in some extreme cases being bisected vertically.

    Notable troops, aside from various rocket launcher, machinegun, or shotgun spewing infantry:
    Manics: teleporter melee troops with a whole lot of insanity and decent toughness.
    Hellions: jetpack equipped infantry with lots of soldier mounted missiles.


    Secondly, we have the Corpus, a faction that is arguably more… modern than the Grineer. The Corpus are a “merchant cult” that considers the acquisition of wealth to be in of itself a holy endeavor and will consider nearly anything, including betrayal worth it in favor of getting more cash. “Profit numbs the feeling”. As a result, they sell weapons to everyone, including their enemies. Worth mentioning is that the Corpus have functioning AIs in their employ.

    Aside from flesh and blood soldiers, the Corpus are heavily mechanized in that they make use of drones in every level of deployment. Everyone and everything has a force shield able to resist grineer fire up to an extent time. Everything also either flies or has leg augments to jump as well.

    Compared to the Grineer, the Corpus have more… unusual weapons options. But as a general rule, nearly everything is an energy weapon of some description with a few traditional small arms stocked for selling to others and small scale railguns.

    Notable troops include:
    Shield Ospreys, a small flying drone that restores and buffs the shields of nearby allies.
    Moas, robots that are basically nothing but a pair of legs and a rifle for a turret mount. These get spammed like crazy and in a variety of different flavors, some of which can do shockwaves.
    Nullifiers. Troopers with specialized mobile dome shields that absorb damage and prevent “powers” from being used against anyone within the dome.



    Next up, we have the Infested, essentially a “zombie” faction made up of people who have been infected by an ancient bioweapon. The nanomachine based plague that created the infested is rather powerful in that it can corrupt flesh, machines, and AI’s into serving it. In one tileset, the infested have completely overwhelmed a Corpus spaceship to the point it’s

    Infested soldiers resemble their uninfested versions but only just barely. For the most part, every victim has been horribly transformed and mutilated. Most however lack any sort of ranged weapon, thankfully. Infested Grineer are especially prone to being warped as their genetics are rather unstable to begin with.



    I’ll omit the other factions for now, largely to ask about current NPC factions in relation to everything else.




    Some thoughts: I imagine the Chaos gods would like the Warframe setting what with endless war, the massive greed and egos, and rampant disease and degeneration all within an area the size of a single solar system.
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-10-20 at 01:39 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Well, the Corpus sound like a dead ringer for the Tau, down to their philosophy of For the Greater GoodGreed - energy weapons and infantry-scale railguns, heavy use of combat drones and AI, lots of flight and jump jet-like movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Well, the Corpus sound like a dead ringer for the Tau, down to their philosophy of For the Greater GoodGreed - energy weapons and infantry-scale railguns, heavy use of combat drones and AI, lots of flight and jump jet-like movement.
    You know, you might be right about some of that. Granted, I don't think the Tau are anywhere near as self centered or brainwashed.

    There's some slight differences though. Whereas the Tau are short lived aliens, the Corpus are long lived futuristic post humans.

    In fact, I don't think there's any mention of aliens at all. Literally everyone and everything is a posthuman or posthuman made in someway.

    Hm... What about the grineer? What do you think of them based on what I have listed out?
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    They wouldn't survive two minutes.

    The standard-issue Imperial Guard armor, the thing made out of paper, can stop .50 cal bullets. Guardsmen are armed with guns that are solar-powered, their light tank is equipped with the same caliber cannon as a modern main battle tank (though the armor is much thinner) and can run on vegetable oil, and they have more artillery than a Grineer Bombard can shake his Ogris at. No way will they beat Imperial Forces in a war of numbers. And everything else is tougher.

    I'm going to be generous to the Corpus and assume that their standard-issue Deras are like Imperial plasma guns that never overheat. Even so, they lack range, their shields are weaker than Tau equivalents, and they have no armor worth speaking of. Rogue traders are unlikely to want anything they have to offer, assuming rogue traders don't have the same reaction to AI as the rest of the Imperium, the Eldar are going to treat them same as any other human, and most other factions are going to respond to trade offers by looking at them funny before killing them. Their best bet is to just get assimilated into Tau culture, where they still won't be very useful because their technology is weaker.

    Infested... it's not really clear how they infest places. Their potential success depends on whether or not they can infect Tyranids. But if the Tyranids can manifest a mutation to prevent it, the Infested are basically Tyranids without a lot of ranged options, or anything above the infantry scale like Carnifexes.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonest View Post
    They wouldn't survive two minutes.

    rest of post
    This isn't a vs thread. You don't have to wave the "Wh40k beats everything!" flag so strongly.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Well, the Corpus sound like a dead ringer for the Tau, down to their philosophy of For the Greater GoodGreed - energy weapons and infantry-scale railguns, heavy use of combat drones and AI, lots of flight and jump jet-like movement.
    There are superficial similarities in types of technology used but no, trust me. They really don't.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    d6 Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Hiro, I applaud you for being somewhat knowledgeable on both sides, but you do realize I asked for an infantry compariso and that this isn't a versus in the strictest sense right?

    I mean, a bombard is not a dedicated artillery piece and isn't a substitute for one, so why are you comparing them? A better thing to do is to compare grenade or missile launching infantry as that's the role the bombard takes up. There's no vehicle feats outside of Archwing mode and so until we have vehicles to compare to I asked that infantry be compared only.

    Also, you do realize that the Grineer consider infantry losses of 5 billion to be minor and easily replaced despite the fact that the Tenno constantly destroy cloning facilities or wipe out entire shipfuls of them. And that's only accounting for losses accrued from direct player intervention over a year... for a single faction out of three, within a single solar system that they all share while at war. I don't claim to be all that knowledgeable about warhammer 40k, but that's an insane replacement rate for an area so small. Sure, if you draw enough people from a single faction you can flood the entire Origin system; I just don't think you can do it without making a big deal out of it.


    Also, lasguns and flak armor range from modern gear with better logistics and repairability to power enough melt Abrams tanks in half if some of the things I heard over the years are true. I admittedly don't know, but let me ask you, how often do lasguns, just lasguns, end up bisetting or dismembering one ton heavily armored combat cyborgs?


    But moving on from that because weapons yeilds are quite variable in fiction.


    I imagine that the Corpus have way more to trade than you think. Consider that we know Darvo and his father are long lived post humans which likely came rather easily compared to what's available to the Imperium or the Tau Sephs. While we don't know the exact process or the medicines involved as well as what it entails, such a thing might honestly be way more important than any AI or weapon the Corpus could ever sell. Even assuming it was available only to leaders or important members of government or whatever, that's a kind of clout that might actually matter to some. Imagine if Tau Ethereals lived for 200 years and still looked like they were in their prime.

    There's also the manufacturing technology that is most definitely far in excess of what the Imperium or Tau use. While the firepower yeilds are rather variable- I do quite wonder what the Admech might do upon learning the sheer speeds of Corpus production. Assuming said production wasn't susceptible to Chaos that is... Chaos does make things very problematic.

    Also; how good are Tau AI's? I don't recall anything about them except for brain engrams.


    As for the infested, we don't know the exact methods of how the infestation works; possibly some nanomachine based virus based on nanospores and plastids. We also don't know what kinds of forms they would mutate upon exposure to other xenos; but we do know it's perfectly able to corrupt machinery as well as subvert AIs, as seen as with Jordas.

    Do we have any examples of anything similar outside of chaos corruption? I do however see Nurgle adopting the Infested, because you know, Nurgle...
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-10-20 at 11:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    If the Grineer are scaled up, they're somewhere between Imperial Guard and Orks. They have strong melee and are big fans of dakka (grakatatatatatata), but they know to point the gun at the enemy rather than just fire it to make loud noises and likely aren't as tough as an ork. The G3 would start yelling "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

    Corpus... uh... culturally, I have no idea how they'd fit in. They're similar to the Tau in technology, but very different in culture (and it's not just a matter of morals, the Tau really aren't that moral, they just look good because they'll say "surrender or die" where most factions would just shoot you on sight). In terms of military success, they're much closer to the Tau, costly to invade but not in the same weight class as the others simply because they're outnumbered by everything else. Since we really only see facility-based combat with the Corpus, I'll assume the Dera is a carbine and they use a longer version during active land invasions. If their plasma is adapted to the strength of 40k plasma but their weapons still work the same, then they're quite strong. The Lanka is basically a Tau pulse rifle, Dera is probably similar to a bolter with better armor-piercing.

    Infested... still Tyranids without ranged options. There's a lot of them. Chargers are basically the melee gaunts, but there aren't any of those ranged gaunts to back them up. Swarm mutalist MOAs could be good against the Guard. Lobbers being flown in by mutalist drones could work, maybe. I'm not sure if infested machinery without AI can be controlled, I think their derelict ships just float through space. If the infestation itself can travel through space, it's a much more insidious threat. Probably end up being more like orks than tyranids on the galactic scale; a typical infestation wouldn't be a top-class priority to deal with, but it can spring up anywhere and will take its toll.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2015-10-21 at 06:34 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Well, yeah Chaos would certainly have a field day, especially Nurgle.


    Though, I'd argue with the fact that Grineer are able to load any of their basic troops into pods and fire them out through massive artillary cannons without any safety restrains and expect them to be fully combat functional despite penetrating deep through Corpus ships... they don't need "upscaling". We don't know the exact speeds or toughness, but they already outclass Imperial Guardsmen in terms of durability no matter how you dice that feat. The fact they are able to hurt themselves with their own guns certainly means they're powerful. I'm certain Orks have done something similar though. I know one Warboss demolished a Titan with his bike.


    Actually, the Corpus are in the same weight class as the Grineer. Currently, both are locked in an endless war seizing nodes from each other, but rarely making any ground since the whole Detron incident. Tenno involvement is literally the only thing that changes or maintains the balance.

    As for the infested. Yeah, they have very little ranged options on the ground. They do however have infested Corpus Ospreys in Archwing mode now that do have ranged attacks, though those things are largely quite big. Not vehicle big, more like the size of those Necron flyier infantry. And there's a boss which is basically an infested ship for a vehicle option with a really big laser, but that thing to be frank is small potatoes in terms of ship v ship warfare. I could argue it'd fit as a Superheavy much like a Baneblade if we really wanted to compare.

    I do agree though, the infested function similar to orks given their propensity for melee with only a few ranged support options. One thing I am sure of is that it might rapidly depopulate Hive cities. No clue about what methods are required to put down an infestation outbreak, but I'm betting that Hive cities are the most vulnerable and generally lack the means of preventing more infections largely as a result of being all connected with each other and all of those bodies being in one place. also poor health technology.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    Though, I'd argue with the fact that Grineer are able to load any of their basic troops into pods and fire them out through massive artillary cannons without any safety restrains and expect them to be fully combat functional despite penetrating deep through Corpus ships... they don't need "upscaling". We don't know the exact speeds or toughness, but they already outclass Imperial Guardsmen in terms of durability no matter how you dice that feat. The fact they are able to hurt themselves with their own guns certainly means they're powerful. I'm certain Orks have done something similar though. I know one Warboss demolished a Titan with his bike.
    Upscaling strategically, not tactically. They simply need a larger infrastructure if they're going to be similar to Orks and Imperial Guard. I'm sure they're more durable than guardsmen. I don't know exactly how durable Orks are, just that they're a lot tougher than humans.

    Their weapons can certainly be used against them, but for the most part, they're designed to fight Corpus, who favor shields over armor. High impact, low puncture. In 40k, shields are much more powerful, and far less common than armor. But the Grineer are ruthlessly pragmatic, and they will modify, build, or steal whatever they can to counter the armor worn by their enemies. That pragmatic attitude backed up with industry is their best bet, the Imperium is so backwards that even the venerated Space Marines get a horribly inefficient weapon; the bolter.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2015-10-23 at 09:04 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by tensai_oni View Post
    This isn't a vs thread. You don't have to wave the "Wh40k beats everything!" flag so strongly.
    It pretty much is on the basis of being in 40k.

    40k is an amazingly hostile universe, where absolutely no faction at all is willing to countenance the possibility of peaceful coexistence except maybe the Tau (and it's more like assimilation than coexistence).

    Basically, you drop a faction into it and the first thing they meet is going to try and kill them, because that's their default and only response.

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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Some search online make me believe this people are mostly human, so while clashes will happen with the Imperium I would say that they would eventually be absorved, not anihilated.

    The Grineer sound like ideal future conscripts for the guard. Do they have any believe that can be reshaped as the imperial cult?

    The Corpus can probably make new rogue trader dinasties, once their heretic AIs are destroyed (or smuggled to the Gue'Vesa).

    The Infested will probably be a menace like a tyranid or ork infestation, although smaller in the galactic scenario. Of course their machine bending skills are probably interesting, and if assimilated by Tyranid they can now pose a serious threat to the Necron which could lead to FUN results.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Yeah the complete lack of aliens in the settings is one of the few realizations that I never thought of until I did some digging. It's pretty freaky. Literally everything is post human in some manner.

    As for Grineer Assimilation. In theory all you really need to do is convince the Twin Queens, who other than a few voices are unquantified and unseen, as they rule the Grineer. The Grineer believe in their superiority as being the results of genetic inheritance, despite being extremely corrupted and mass produced. They also seem to atleast have an understanding of their own genetics and practice atleast enough of that in order to counter their degeneration and in one case among the leadership, actively seeks to make them stronger and smarter. They are also former slaves that during the Collapse of their old masters broke free. They also have intollerance for things not of themselves, but again, that's most likely propaganda. Does this provide you with any material?

    The Corpus go where the money is, so in theory it's fairly easy so long as a reasonable degree of autonomy is provided. They might become part of the Ad Mech given their sheer manufacturing capabilities.

    The majority of Corpus robotics seem to be animalistic drones, in the sense they act like animals... down to actually appearing to feel affection in one minor case. I don't think that's going to bother people much other than the quantity they are produced in.

    However, the Cephalons or ship AIs might be problematic. We only really see them in Tenno control or space, but it's heavily implied in one lore entry that they serve as ship computers and crewmembers. They definately seem humanlike in terms of intelligence likely more given the samplings we've seen but we don't know if this is the norm. It's likely the Grineer have none given their hatred of things not Grineer. So, other than the obvious, getting destroyed options, what possibilities do you see for them?

    As for the infested, I agree. Although I have to wonder how explosive their reproduction/conversion rates have to be in order to pose a threat to both the Grineer and the Corpus as the sane thing to do when Outbreaks happen is for everyone to put asside what they're doing an exterminate everything.



    Now in addition to to what's been discussed so far: I want to introduce the Tenno. The player characters.

    The Tenno are the elite warriors created by the Orokin to fight in a war long ago. It use unknown what they look like or if they are even human or even flesh, but we can all see the Warframes, fleshy suits.

    Regular Tenno game play consists of murdering thousands of the above soldiers regardless of power every hour. They agile enough to jump parkour like an Assassins Creed character and can jump quite far like, far. They can block bullets at point blank range even from shotguns and on top of that, are heavily shielded and armored to the point that waves of the above soldiers typically have to throw dozens of troops to score any lasting damage, so long as the Tenno is attentive that is.

    They also possess a variety of unusual abilities, often "area nuking" or crowd control abilities of some sort that make the hordes easier to slay. Several of which are physics breaking.

    Oh, and apparently, self Resurrection is canon. When tenno die and bleed out, they can disassemble their bodies and resurrect themselves on spot.

    I've seen it argued you'd need elite space marines such as Sargents or Terminators and up to make a fair fight. Would this assertion be correct?
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-10-25 at 12:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    Yeah the complete lack of aliens in the settings is one of the few realizations that I never thought of until I did some digging. It's pretty freaky. Literally everything is post human in some manner.

    As for Grineer Assimilation. In theory all you really need to do is convince the Twin Queens, who other than a few voices are unquantified and unseen, as they rule the Grineer. The Grineer believe in their superiority as being the results of genetic inheritance, despite being extremely corrupted and mass produced. They also seem to atleast have an understanding of their own genetics and practice atleast enough of that in order to counter their degeneration and in one case among the leadership, actively seeks to make them stronger and smarter. They are also former slaves that during the Collapse of their old masters broke free. They also have intollerance for things not of themselves, but again, that's most likely propaganda. Does this provide you with any material?
    If I were writing a crossover Babu Dhakal would be involved with the Grineer, that sounds so nice to fit them as post thunder warriors. But that aside the Imperium doesn't care much about the beliefs of the people under their care as long as they are mostly human, revere the Emperor in some manner, and pay their tithes. So the Twin Queens could be put as planetary governors, eclesiarchs preaching the Emperor's voice to the Grineers saying basically whatever it is they say now adding some more Emperor is good, Emperor died for our sins.

    Is there any knowledge about their old masters? What they were? Any hint to them as to be mechanical? Because that could be linked to the men of iron and the age of darkness, giving the imperial cultist a big and easy building base to create a cult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    The Corpus go where the money is, so in theory it's fairly easy so long as a reasonable degree of autonomy is provided. They might become part of the Ad Mech given their sheer manufacturing capabilities.

    The majority of Corpus robotics seem to be animalistic drones, in the sense they act like animals... down to actually appearing to feel affection in one minor case. I don't think that's going to bother people much other than the quantity they are produced in.

    However, the Cephalons or ship AIs might be problematic. We only really see them in Tenno control or space, but it's heavily implied in one lore entry that they serve as ship computers and crewmembers. They definately seem humanlike in terms of intelligence likely more given the samplings we've seen but we don't know if this is the norm. It's likely the Grineer have none given their hatred of things not Grineer. So, other than the obvious, getting destroyed options, what possibilities do you see for them?
    The Mechanicum and the Imperium in general are quite NO-NO when it comes to AIs there was a robot uprising post singularity in their backstory and their asses are still sore. That said there is some suspect miracles/luck/bargaining that can be explaining by vehicles and machinery having AIs. So the Moas might be fine, as long as they aren't self aware. The ship AIs I can see mostly deflecting from the Imperium lines. As I was saying the Imperium isn't big on AIs not even automatizing, the only vessels that might have AIs are kill-ships from deathwatch (they are rad guys).

    Similarly the Mechanicum is pretty dogmatic on it's addherency to the cult mechanicus, and the Corpus greed mindset will probably make them ill fitted for the quest of knowledge in large numbers.

    The Tau though would love them. And the Gue'Vesa (the humans having deflected to the Tau) would probably make great work of them. If the Grineer and the Corpus are truly at odds between themselves their rivalry can push them into both sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    As for the infested, I agree. Although I have to wonder how explosive their reproduction/conversion rates have to be in order to pose a threat to both the Grineer and the Corpus as the sane thing to do when Outbreaks happen is for everyone to put asside what they're doing an exterminate everything.
    There as many elves infested as the plot demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    Now in addition to to what's been discussed so far: I want to introduce the Tenno. The player characters.

    The Tenno are the elite warriors created by the Orokin to fight in a war long ago. It use unknown what they look like or if they are even human or even flesh, but we can all see the Warframes, fleshy suits.

    Regular Tenno game play consists of murdering thousands of the above soldiers regardless of power every hour. They agile enough to jump parkour like an Assassins Creed character and can jump quite far like, far. They can block bullets at point blank range even from shotguns and on top of that, are heavily shielded and armored to the point that waves of the above soldiers typically have to throw dozens of troops to score any lasting damage, so long as the Tenno is attentive that is.

    They also possess a variety of unusual abilities, often "area nuking" or crowd control abilities of some sort that make the hordes easier to slay. Several of which are physics breaking.

    Oh, and apparently, self Resurrection is canon. When tenno die and bleed out, they can disassemble their bodies and resurrect themselves on spot.

    I've seen it argued you'd need elite space marines such as Sargents or Terminators and up to make a fair fight. Would this assertion be correct?
    I'm again unfamiliar with the setting. But I would argue numbers. Those abilities and powers don't sound like nothing the marines haven't dealt with before, if powerful, but if they are the PCs and there is conservation of ninjutsu they are going to be outnumbered very fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    The Corpus go where the money is, so in theory it's fairly easy so long as a reasonable degree of autonomy is provided. They might become part of the Ad Mech given their sheer manufacturing capabilities.
    The AdMech are just too dumb to do this. If the Corpus decide to ally with the Imperium, it'll be done by putting their population and manufacturing capabilities on low-key worlds and setting up deals with rogue traders. They'll turn most of their weapons manufacturing to Imperial standard, with still some of their original superior plasma weapons production to keep for themselves and for highly lucrative trades. Over time they may come to take on the aesthetics and rituals of techpriests and be officially recognized as Imperial Forge Worlds.
    Now in addition to to what's been discussed so far: I want to introduce the Tenno. The player characters.

    The Tenno are the elite warriors created by the Orokin to fight in a war long ago. It use unknown what they look like or if they are even human or even flesh, but we can all see the Warframes, fleshy suits.

    Regular Tenno game play consists of murdering thousands of the above soldiers regardless of power every hour. They agile enough to jump parkour like an Assassins Creed character and can jump quite far like, far. They can block bullets at point blank range even from shotguns and on top of that, are heavily shielded and armored to the point that waves of the above soldiers typically have to throw dozens of troops to score any lasting damage, so long as the Tenno is attentive that is.

    They also possess a variety of unusual abilities, often "area nuking" or crowd control abilities of some sort that make the hordes easier to slay. Several of which are physics breaking.

    Oh, and apparently, self Resurrection is canon. When tenno die and bleed out, they can disassemble their bodies and resurrect themselves on spot.

    I've seen it argued you'd need elite space marines such as Sargents or Terminators and up to make a fair fight. Would this assertion be correct?
    Space Marines are expected to individually kill small armies in a single war. Tenno and Space Marines operate in similar ways, but a squad of battle-brothers is 10, and they send anywhere between a single squad and a full company of 100 to a single planet.

    Tenno are probably comparable to 1st Company marines, the chapter's honored veterans. Terminators wouldn't do well against Tenno simply because of their role in battle, but those who have earned Terminator Honors are highly skilled. Sergeants of other companies are similar in skill, as are special units such as Shrike's Wing of the Raven Guard, 3rd Company assault marines who survived a brutal guerrilla war under the leadership of Captain Shrike.

    Of course, your standard tacticals can still outnumber them. I'd say the Tenno are somewhere between Space Marines and Eldar. I don't have much knowledge on the powers of Eldar, so I don't know their strength relative to space marines (aside from having weapons that are good at armor-piercing).

    Tenno loadouts are also extremely versatile. Their guns are basically magic considering how much they can change just from messing around for a minute in the orbiter compartment. They can equip themselves to deal with large numbers of weak enemies, small numbers of strong enemies, armor, biological foes, mechanical foes. Since they have three weapons, they can afford to keep one for unexpected encounters.

    Plus the Tenno themselves have their own power sets to further augment their capabilities. If Mesa finds herself ambushed by Devastator Marines, she can activate Shatter Shield and deflect half those shots back at them while taking significantly less damage. She can gun down dozens of tyranid gaunts in seconds with the Regulator pistols on her arms. Valkyr can charge an Imperial Guard trench ignoring absolutely everything being fired at her and rip and tear through the line. Frost can shield an allied heavy bolter setup to protect them from enemy fire.

    As for self-resurrection, Necrons have that too, and other factions have managed to beat those guys a few times (of course, they're generally very very bad news).

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird
    Is there any knowledge about their old masters? What they were? Any hint to them as to be mechanical? Because that could be linked to the men of iron and the age of darkness, giving the imperial cultist a big and easy building base to create a cult.
    They served the Warframe equivalent of Dark Age Humanity. They had their own robot uprising with the Sentients, which the Tenno were created to fight.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2015-10-25 at 03:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    If I were writing a crossover Babu Dhakal would be involved with the Grineer, that sounds so nice to fit them as post thunder warriors. But that aside the Imperium doesn't care much about the beliefs of the people under their care as long as they are mostly human, revere the Emperor in some manner, and pay their tithes. So the Twin Queens could be put as planetary governors, eclesiarchs preaching the Emperor's voice to the Grineers saying basically whatever it is they say now adding some more Emperor is good, Emperor died for our sins.

    Is there any knowledge about their old masters? What they were? Any hint to them as to be mechanical? Because that could be linked to the men of iron and the age of darkness, giving the imperial cultist a big and easy building base to create a cult.
    The Ancestors to the grineer were a genetically modified slave race designed for labour work by a race known as the Orokin... they're the guys who literally made EVERYTHING in the setting, from Teraforming Venus to make it livable ( and when they were removed, the device that did so malfunctioned enough to make it an ice world), they Corpus were a minor mechant power in their time and they created the Infested to act as canon fodder for a war against the Sentients, from what we understand to be Post Singularity evolving AIs... which were again an Orokin creation (the original protoform being a starfish that evolved being invulnerable to a laser). More feats on those guys later, but they're relatively unquatified.

    Worth mentioning though that many Grineer consider themselves liberated and are thankful their masters died. One guy, a lunatic, even amongst other Grineer considers working to help the Sentinets

    The Orokin were a Galactic power of some description, atleast post solar system. Unknown how powerful really, other than in comparison to them, the Corpus and Grineer are regarded as scavengers looting their corpse. What feats we do see include: having millions upon millions of large buildings hidden in pocket dimensions all over the Solar system, making everything in the setting, and some sort of dimensional travel to a place that can be considered either a "calmer" or atleast "undeveloped" Warp.




    The Mechanicum and the Imperium in general are quite NO-NO when it comes to AIs there was a robot uprising post singularity in their backstory and their asses are still sore. That said there is some suspect miracles/luck/bargaining that can be explaining by vehicles and machinery having AIs. So the Moas might be fine, as long as they aren't self aware. The ship AIs I can see mostly deflecting from the Imperium lines. As I was saying the Imperium isn't big on AIs not even automatizing, the only vessels that might have AIs are kill-ships from deathwatch (they are rad guys).

    Similarly the Mechanicum is pretty dogmatic on it's addherency to the cult mechanicus, and the Corpus greed mindset will probably make them ill fitted for the quest of knowledge in large numbers.

    The Tau though would love them. And the Gue'Vesa (the humans having deflected to the Tau) would probably make great work of them. If the Grineer and the Corpus are truly at odds between themselves their rivalry can push them into both sides.
    The Corpus to be fair might not neccesarily be a singular faction rather than a catchall term defining adherents to "Profit above all else" religion. It's quite possible that the Corpus can split off and join sides. And given the numbers I've seen tossed around... there's enough Corpus to split into both the Tau and the Imperium.




    I'm again unfamiliar with the setting. But I would argue numbers. Those abilities and powers don't sound like nothing the marines haven't dealt with before, if powerful, but if they are the PCs and there is conservation of ninjutsu they are going to be outnumbered very fast.
    Actually... there's more apparently Tenno than there are Space Marines. 4 million Tenno if you go by total accounts. The way DE treats the issue of population numbers is that every player is himself a Tenno and his kills outside of bosses are counted as canon due to a rather unusual method of gameplay story integration where the player himself is the Tenno. They refer to the players as "Tenno" in the real world for instance. And treat anything players can buy on the in game market as having a lore justification.


    As a general rule, Tenno powers vary based on a theme based on the frame. Such as fire powers, or ice or whatever. Though some themes are more like "Stage Magician" or "Jester" or "Prankster"

    Some notable abilities: "disabling every gun for a minute as well as glue a prod to every robot in the vicinity as a prank", grenades that throw a constraint field that lifts anything caught in it (like an AoE version of what Didact does in Halo when meeting MC), coating everything with a small layer in "antimatter" that slows down those caught in it (the attack is omnidirectional and passes through walls) and those that die while coated explode and this causes chain reactions, a discoball laser... thing with a huge radius that shreds and blinds anyone and anything within the radius of effect. And that's only a small portion. A power that causes the majority of the damage dealt towards you to be dealt to your attacker instead... For instance, you can have a cut himself in half with his own sword by striking you.

    And everyone can carry melee weapons that can easily slice or pound Grineer and Corpus with ease or completely disintegrate them if they decide to spend the energy when making the strike.

    I know perfectly well that due to lots and lots of writers and lots and lots of time and book, Space Marines have more total experience if you were to compound them as well as having super elites who are miles and above what Tenno can do. I did preface that average Marine squads might not be enough.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Tenno are pretty much like Imperial Assassins in terms of raw skill and the quality of their equipment (and that's saying a lot, given how incredibly insanely powerful Imperial Assassins are in the fluff), but far more durable due to the strength of their of armor and the fact they have powerful personal shields, and on top of that have very powerful abilities - I mean, stuff like "disrupt the perception of all enemies around you to the point where they think their allies are you and start shooting each other" or "activate a shield that is completely impenetrable to all of the weapons in the Warframe setting, releasing all the damage it absorbs as a shockwave when it ends" (yes, before you ask, Nyx is one of my favourite 'frames :P).

    I think there actually is one thing in 40k that fits that description quite perfectly: Harlequin Solitaires. Those are likewise absolutely superhumanly skilled and disrupt reality all around them - and can slaughter whole armies all on their own.

    Which is to say, Space Marines could go up against Tenno - indeed, they have seen worse, Tenno are no C'Tan fragments or such - but you'd probably need a shocking amount of Space Marines to deal with even a single Tenno. I very much doubt a single squad would be enough.
    Last edited by Winterwind; 2015-10-26 at 04:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Fortunately, Tenno are the multiverse's ultimate mercenaries, as long as you can distract the Lotus or convince her not to be against you. So, Inquisitors can quickly gain a group of Tenno as a retinue as long as they don't run out of money or shiny weapons.

    And Tenno will do more or less anything that you tell them to do.

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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Apologies if this as been mentioned but the Tenno have technopaths (Nyx frame). Does that override the machine spirits in any way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chives View Post
    Apologies if this as been mentioned but the Tenno have technopaths (Nyx frame). Does that override the machine spirits in any way?
    It works on Moas and Ospreys as well as it does humanoids and nanomachine zombies, so in theory, yes. It also might work on the Sentient drones, though we currently have no clue how powerful or advance an individual drone is since we never seen them yet; we just know that it likely works on Sentients despite their evolving nature.

    However, there's no instance of Nyx working on tanks or vehicles, largely due to Warframe being infantry primarily. And just as well, bosses are immune for gameplay reasons (I believe the in lore justification is some sort of mind shields or dispels based on Orokin tech or Void powers). We do see some instances of vehicles, but they're all boss encounters and thus immune. Though whether that is because it doesn't work on because they are vehicle sized or because of some other form of protection, is up for debate.

    I know for certain Mind Control would not work on a Titan because of Void Shields...
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Since the machine spirit is an extremely powerful sun eating god-being's unconscious mind, I think it will be very unlikely that anything can override one via mind control. I doubt anything in Warframe is as strong as a C'tan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Since the machine spirit is an extremely powerful sun eating god-being's unconscious mind, I think it will be very unlikely that anything can override one via mind control. I doubt anything in Warframe is as strong as a C'tan.
    Er.....machine spirits are not all part of the Void Dragon fragment on Mars, even assuming that is still canon. Machine spirits are non-sapient computer programs or very primitive AIs, not including things like lasguns which have no actual machine-spirit but are still treated as if they possess a spirit. Hacking would be the appropriate 'skill' for overriding a machine spirit, not mind control.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2015-10-26 at 09:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    What's the source for that? Was that from an older Codex? Like back from when the C'tan weren't retconned into being broken into fragments and enslaved?

    Regardless, I think it's probably a safe bet that the majority of all machine spirits aren't C'tan. If they were, that's a whole lot of shards.

    Also, normally mind control wouldn't work on machines, but Nyx's Mind Control powers do work on robots with animalistic intelligence. Just not computer terminals, though every Tenno is able to hack things manually, so in theory they could hack machine spirits if mind control fails, just not on the fly.
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-10-26 at 09:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    The novel mechanicum makes the argument that the Emperor locked up the void dragon instead of killing it because the Mechanicum's technology won't function without it nearby. The Emperor locking it up is a long game meant to rescue mankind once we lost the ability to understand what we were using.

    I'm fairly certain that the machinespirit is not AI, since even basic computer AI is considered heretical. They use bio-computers made of human brains (servitors) or punch card machines. The Machine Spirit is something else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    The novel mechanicum makes the argument that the Emperor locked up the void dragon instead of killing it because the Mechanicum's technology won't function without it nearby. The Emperor locking it up is a long game meant to rescue mankind once we lost the ability to understand what we were using.

    I'm fairly certain that the machinespirit is not AI, since even basic computer AI is considered heretical. They use bio-computers made of human brains (servitors) or punch card machines. The Machine Spirit is something else.
    Abominable Intelligences are specifically defined as computer programs that are both self-aware and capable of self-improvement - aka 'True' AI as we would refer to them today. Machine spirits (plural, because every piece of technology has its own spirit supposedly) are sometimes entirely imaginary, sometimes primitive/lobotomized computers, and quite possibly sometimes benign/benevolent minor warp entities. The rarer/more valuable a device, the more potent its machine spirit, such as those of Land Raiders or the Deathwatch kill-ships, to the point where they can run their respective vehicles entirely independently of operator input. On the opposite end are things like lasguns or trucks, which are entirely mechanical but still venerated as if they had a spirit (and because this is 40K, sometimes displeasing the 'machine spirit' of a mechanical device has side effects).
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    I'm fairly sure that unless multiple books say Machine spirits are C'tan shards, the Mechanicum book is considered an outlier or speculation rather than absolute fact. Also while I am certain there's more books that can lend evidence for C'tan origins, does that explanation jive as well with the rest of the setting?


    Also, I have just remembered that the Infestation is perfectly able to subvert control machines without AI.

    The following are links to a series of Corpus rifles undergoing an Infestation. Starting on top is the original Corpus rifle progressing downwards until it becomes fully converted.

    As the rifle mutates, the munitions and its firing mechanisms also change to accommodate the future form's systems. Admittedly though, this weapon is "manufactured" by Tenno given we only see it in Tenno hands.

    http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Quanta

    http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mutalist_Quanta

    http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Paracyst

    We don't know if infested ships move or not, if they did, this explains Outbreaks a little better.






    Also, the entirety of the Imperium will probably drop their jaws and get the pitch forks when they hear of the Sentients. The funny thing about that is that the Sentients would be adverse to using captured Imperium ships, because Warp travel would render them infertile.
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-10-28 at 01:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Warframe Factions within the context of Warhammer 40k

    Very much a necro post (given context, perhaps it's a Nekros post?), but I was just having this conversation the other day, and I just happened across this thread thanks to Google. Figured I'd throw in my 2 cents.

    Grineer: As has been already said, they're somewhere between IG and Orks, with their intensive cyborging throwing a teensy bit of the Adeptus Mechanicum into the mix (though nowhere near as much as the next entry). With them being primarily our IG comparison, some debate exists on where the bosses stand - what exactly does that make them in comparison? Personally, I make them Space Marines in comparison, for the most part (larger tougher units, clear leadership role, about as rare in proportion to the IG equivalents, Vay Hek is clearly a dreadnaught).

    Corpus: Somewhere between the Tau (highly advanced, few melee units, reliance on gun-toting mechanoids) and the Adeptus Mechanicum (sometimes sell things to the Grineer, machine-obsessed, heavy religious overtones (though the subject of worship changes from the Omnissiah to profit), some amount of brainwashing for the recruits similar to Cult Mechanicum indoctrination or Servitor component implantation).

    Infested: Believe it or not, the Tyranids are not the only thing I think of. That's there, yes - the Infested are a race of mutated monsters that turn the enemy into more of them, and adapt to new enemies through their new biomass. There is a lot of Tyranid in there. Keep in mind, though:
    • They're highly melee focused.
    • They reproduce through spores.
    • Once they infest a place, you can never truly be rid of them.
    Yep, they're a cross between the Tyranids and the ****ing ORKS. And now all I can imagine is the screeching in Infested missions being replaced with "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!"

    Tenno: We didn't really take the IA comparison into account, good catch. Our original comparison was to the Eldar (seemed to be the best match in terms of overall capabilities). This made the Lotus the equivalent of Isha, and Teshin our Khaine comparison.

    Orokin: The Old Ones, definitely. They made the Grineer, the Infested and the Warframes (making them the creators of the Ork and Eldar equivalents), they existed long before the present day of the setting but are now gone. Easy.

    Spoiler: Possible Natah/Second Dream spoilers
    Show
    Sentients: ...Necrons? They certainly have a massive hate-boner for the Orokin (our Old Ones equivalent), and their bodies are entirely mechanical and near-impervious to harm. Seems about right to me. Pretty sure this makes Hunhow a C'tan, which really seems to work. There's a bit of the Iron Men in here as well, what with the whole AI thing.

    Others: There were some comparisons made with the Syndicates, but I can't remember what they were. I'll edit if I remember them.

    Thoughts?
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