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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Primewarden (PEACH)

    Primewarden



    A mortal world deserves to have a mortal fate, decided by mortal hands. The Prime can survive without meddling otherworlders, and I believe it should.” – Alrion Danask, veteran Primewarden.

    "Some have brought to my attention the benevolent nature of such creatures as Angel, or Archons, and asked me how I, a champion of that which is Good and Free in the world, can justify my killing of them. I say their nature is irrelevant; they are not of this world, and their interferance in the Prime is both an abomination and a chain on the freedom of mortals to make their own decisions" - Attributed to Karl Galin, Primewarden and champion of freedom.

    "Magic? Magic is an abomination, every fragment of it testing the walls of reality. It's a wonder magic hasn't brought about the end of the universe in some fiery apocalypse or another. Sometimes I fancy I can hear the dimensions moan at the depredations of one spellcasting bastard or another" - Dala T'anath, noted Primewarden.

    -

    Been hunting this one for a few days now. Spellcasting whoreson caused quite a stir across the breadth of Tethyr, then seemingly vanished into thin air. Not from my eyes.

    Distantly aware I’m cold. Doesn’t matter. The Prime protects me as I protect it, and the blizzard around me is like a chilly breeze. Spot a figure in the distance, matches the profile of my quarry. Walking too straight not to be a spellcaster– normal people curl up in the cold to conserve heat, he’s walking like it’s a sunny day.

    Loosen my broadsword in its sheathe, don’t want the cold making it stick. Quicken my pace, but keep it quiet. Quarry turns– too late. Break into a sprint, draw the blade. Good steel, well-made. First swing doesn’t have enough force, meets a barrier. Cursed magic.

    Quarry tries to force me back. The magic burns, makes me feel sick. Force it down and focus. The Prime helps me, rejects the storm of magic like it lets me reject the blizzard. Strike again, a good blow. Shatter the barrier, cleave the quarries arm off. Follow the blades motion, come around in a decapitating strike.

    Body falls, feel good about that. Pierce the heart to be sure, find the head. Curse.

    Not the quarry, but one less spellcaster in the world can only be a good thing.


    -

    ”Back down fool, my arcane might eclipses beasts stronger than you can know!”

    “I doubt it, blowhard.”

    The ruined remnant of a towns market square, stalls alight or toppled, buildings torn open, bodies strewn about like broken dolls. At the epicentre, an enraged Warlock, cursing his opponent. Just a simple man, he who stands against the furious spellcaster. Plain clothes, a simple axe, a battered old shield.

    But the way he moves, the economy of motion, the brutality of action betrays vast experience.

    “By the abyss, back down Warden! What business of yours is this?” screamed the Warlock, hurling another blast of energy, which fizzled and died on the Warden’s skin like the dozen others had. With a half-dozen quick steps, the Warden was next to the Warlock and removing his sword from the casters leg with the wet sound of ruined flesh.

    “I am a Primewarden,” a shield-bash knocks the warlock away “I will not stand by-“ a pommel to the Warlocks face sends the robed man reeling “– while you defile the Prime-” the Wardens arm draws back for the kill-strike “– with your efforts!” and in one motion, it’s over. A ruined marketplace, the quieting screams of terrified folk, a headless corpse, guards slipping out from cover to help people, and just a simple man. He spits on the corpse and leaves, no pomp or pageantry.


    -

    Demons. Devils. Angels. Wizards. Elementals. Undead. Aberrations. The list of unnatural creatures goes on beyond mortal imagination, a cascade of horrors and otherworldly creatures both harmful and beneficial, who frequently strain reality by entering the material world, often wreaking havoc in the process. Primewardens are those who seek to minimise, negate or halt entirely that damage, by acting against the magical, the unnatural and the otherworldly. Paragons of physical power, the avatars of material supremacy, they are a loosely-organised, tireless group of guardians against the myriad incursions into the Prime Material from outside it’s dimensional boundaries.

    -

    Adventurers: Primewardens frequently travel the world in order to appreciate the intricacies of the Prime Material, and so tune themselves more closely with it. Often, this wandering lifestyle translates well to time spent as adventurers. Coupled with a fervent willingness to defend the Prime Material, Primewardens are often active in the adventuring world.

    Characteristics: Primewardens tend to be dour, serious folk with little patience for complications. They are almost always intolerant of magic in any form. Primewardens devote themselves to the Prime Material plane, ‘tuning’ themselves into it to gain immense physical power. They become highly resistant to ‘otherworldly’ energies, and easily self-sufficient.

    A Primewarden has great physical power, an innate resistance to otherworldly energies, a dangerous level of determination and an almost unhinged hatred of ‘unnatural’ creatures.

    Alignment: While technically unrestricted in alignment, the dedication necessary to follow the path of a Primewarden means most have a Lawful bent to their personalities. As a rule of thumb, the good/evil axis matters very little to them, leading to frequent Neutral tendencies.

    Religion: Due to their habit of railing against magical energies, Primewardens are frequently set against religions thanks to the inherently magical nature of deities, but on occasion have been known to offer prayers to particularly physical gods, such as Kord, Gruumsh or Hextor.

    Background: Primewardens are a surprisingly varied lot. Their origin may be as tragic as being greatly wronged by magical forces in the past, to the exotic drama of escaping a scene of vast magical destruction, in turn becoming convinced that such energies must be held at bay. Alternatively, it may be as simple as being apprenticed to another of the breed.

    Races: The path of a Primewarden is rather restrictive, and obviously unavailable to any not native and natural to the Prime Material. It’s teachings are simply anathema to such creatures as Planetouched or Aberrations. Furthermore, magically-inclined races find the path of a Primewarden restrictive at best, and they are not common among the like of elves. Occasionally, however, exceptions occur and members of a magically-inclined race may become desperate to purge the energies from them, taking up the mantle of a Primewarden in response to this desire.

    Other Classes: Primewardens are utterly intolerant of fully-fledged spellcasters, and distrust those who make use of distinctly magical equipment, such as wands or rods. The kind of Primewarden willing to associate with adventuring groups, however, is often willing to make exceptions for combat classes who wield magical weapons, armour and the like. Many believe that such magics are bound or enslaved to the mundane nature of the weapon, which serves to mitigate their unnatural nature. Others are simply willing to fight fire with fire, and turn magic on itself.

    Role: Apart from being a good frontline combatant, Primewardens make excellent wizard-hunters, since their abilities make them very resistant to a spellcasters abilities, allowing them to brave the storm of magic necessary to introduce such people to good ol’ cold steel. Primewardens are robust, reliable characters who are difficult to disable in a fight and capable of disabling many ability or spell-dependant opponents.

    -

    Primewarden
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters 1st, SR 2.

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |SR 4.

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Power of the Prime +1, SR 6.

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |SR 8.

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters 2nd, Power of the Prime: Endure Elements, SR 10.

    6th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Power of the Prime +2, SR 12.

    7th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Warden of the Prime, SR 14.

    8th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |SR 16.

    9th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Power of the Prime +3, SR 18.

    10th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters 3rd, SR 20.

    11th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |SR 22.

    12th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Power of the Prime +4, SR 24.

    13th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |SR 26.

    14th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |SR 28.

    15th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters 4th, Power of the Prime +5, SR 30.

    16th|
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |SR 32.

    17th|
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |SR 34.

    18th|
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Power of the Prime +6, SR 36.

    19th|
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |SR 38.

    20th|
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters 5th, Avatar of the Prime, SR 40.[/table]

    Requirements

    Alignment: Any.
    Race: Any “native and natural” to the Prime Material (not Planetouched, Undead, Outsiders, Aberrations, etc).

    Unavailable to characters with the ability to cast arcane or divine spells, manifest psionic powers, or characters with spell-like, psi-like, Su or Sp abilities.

    Specifications:

    HD: 2d10 and discard the lowest roll.

    Skill Points: 4+ Int (x4 at 1st level).

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: Arcana (Int), Knowledge: Dungeoneering (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).

    Weapon and Armour proficiency: Primewardens are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all exotic one-handed weapons, all types of armour (heavy, medium and light), and shields (except tower shields). In addition, they have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for free.

    Physically Attuned (Ex): Primewardens spend great effort attuning themselves to the Prime Material, increasing their own physical, natural power in the process. Primewardens gain the opportunity to increase their attributes at double the normal rate for a character class (every two levels instead of every four levels).

    Favoured Enemy (Ex): As a byproduct of attuning themselves to the Prime Material, they become adept at hunting and killing their foremost opposites– spellcasters. Primewardens gain Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters every five levels, starting at 1st. The term ‘spellcasters’ includes any creature capable of casting divine or arcane magic (spontaneously or not), but does not extend to spell-like abilities or Psionics.

    Reject Magic (Ex): As a Primewarden becomes more in tune with the Prime Material, they become naturally more resistant to unnatural effects, such as magic. Primewardens have Spell Resistance of twice their Primewarden levels. They may not suppress this Spell Resistence if a friendly caster wishes to affect them. Primewardens must attempt a saving throw against all spells, including those that would benefit them, unless said spell would not allow a saving throw (assuming they still have the mental ability to choose to do so).

    At 16th level, they project a permanent, passive Anti-Magic Field (as the spell). For the purposes of summoned monster Spell Resistance, their caster level is considered to be their class level. They may suppress the Anti-Magic Field to an extent, but no matter how much they attempt to do so they may not reduce the range any further than their own body– they are always under the fields effects. This effect does not function outside the Prime Material plane.

    Power of the Prime (Ex): A Primewarden becomes closely tuned to the Prime Material plane, growing to rely on and draw strength from it. When in the Prime Material plane, a Primewarden gains a +1 inherent bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, armour class and saves for every 3 levels (+1 at 3rd, +2 at 6th, +3 at 9th etc). In addition, at 5th level a Primewarden becomes capable of withstanding the effects of existing in temperatures anywhere between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without discomfort, and does not need to make Fortitude saves for existing in such temperatures. None of these effects function outside the Prime Material plane.

    Warden of the Prime (Ex): Primewardens naturally become adept at defending the Prime from otherwordly threats, which frequently involves learning how to beseech the Prime for aid against Outsiders– the most obvious representation of an otherwordly threat. At 7th level, a Primewarden attacking an Outsider counts their weapons as Shadowstriking (see Tome of Magic). This effect does not function outside of the Prime Material plane, but does not count as a magical effect.

    Avatar of the Prime (Ex): Supremely powerful Primewardens have been known to venture out into the multiverse, believing that to truly defend the Prime Material, one must choke the life from threats to it before they even turn their eyes to the Prime. Such Primewardens, so closely attuned to the Prime Material are they, have been known to take a piece of the plane with them, forcing sanity and reality on an otherwise insane array of dimensions.

    At 20th level, a Primewarden radiates a bubble of the Prime Material plane 10 ft in every direction, which “overwrites” whatever other dimension they may be in. Within this bubble, all physical, elemental, energy, magic, alignment and temporal traits are treates as if on the Prime Material plane. As can be expected, any Primewarden class feature that requires the character to be on the Prime Material plane to function, works normally since it is in a bubble of the Prime Material. This ability functions constantly.

    Multiclass note: Primewardens may multiclass freely, but if they take a class level that entails gaining the ability to cast spells, use spell-like or psi-like abilities, or gaining an Su or Sp ability, they immediately lose all class features. Namely, the bonus stat boosts Favoured Enemy: Spellcaster, Reject Magic, Power of the Prime, Warden of the Prime and Avatar of the Prime are all instantly lost as the character betrays his former training for arcane power. There is no method for atonement or regaining these class features, short of using a Wish or Miracle spell to remove the levels that caused the loss. Reality Revision and Psychic Reformation can also allow this.

    Note that this restriction is incurred only if you take a class LEVEL that gains you such an ability. Taking a level in a class that will at a later date gain you such an ability, but does not do so yet, is acceptable. If a Primewarden is granted such abilities involuntarily (by means of a Polymorph spell, for example) they do not incur any penalty so long as they do not willingly make use of those abilities.
    Last edited by Imrix.; 2007-06-11 at 09:39 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Ceres's Avatar

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    HD: 2d10, choose the highest roll? That's an average of... 7.15. Why the strange HD? d12 HD and toughness for free would do the same trick.

    Love the fluff, though. He seems quite overpowered, but I take it that the antimagic-field prevents him from using magic items, which you consider a big enough down to justify this? I'm not a good enough optimizer to know if this is so, but I do think it seems very powerful.

    I think it has great potential, though, and would like to see it commented by people more knowledgeable in the ways of optimization.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    I just like re-rolls, and that is effectively a re-roll of the dice. Always liked them better than a bigger dice, or a flat bonus.

    And yes, the Anti-Magic Field affects the Primewarden as well, meaning no magic items, buffs or magical healing. Getting it at 16th level blocks them off from any of the big permanent stat bonuses (Limited Wish). That means that for boosting stats, they might get a few small boosts with low-level tomes, but nothing big.

    It also means they're very limited for healing at high levels, and effectively cannot be buffed whatsoever.And, if they want the anti-magic field to do the most good by affecting some monsters, they need to be a little bit away from the party, lest they negate THEIR magic.

    Most of their abilities, really, are concerned with mitigating the disadvantage of having no magic available to them.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    This class has definite appeal on a number of fronts. First of all, the numbers themselves are interesting, the special abilities seem balanced, although play-testing would be required. Secondly, the notion of no magical items, whilst not a new thing, is still certainly something only upheld by those willing to undergo obscure feat sets to power up their own classes. This takes some of that, and uses it to spice up a class in and of itself.
    Thirdly, the very image of a character with that kind of devotion and unceasing dedication to such an impossible cause in a typical D&D Magic-enriched world, is enough to earn more than healthy respect from me. Elurindel Approves.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    A question: if I were to take three levels of Paladin before entering this class (say, to get Cha-to-saves), would I be violating the "no spellcasting classes" bit under Multiclassing, even though I can't cast spells yet?

    That's something else: I'd introduce a little bit of MAD by adding, say, Cha-to-AC as a deflection bonus (so that it applies to touch attacks too).

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Since a 3rd level Paladin has Detect Evil, Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, and Aura of Courage (all of which are Su or Sp abilities), then yes, you would be.

    However, I get the gist. Using a more applicable example, such as Ranger 3, you would not incur the restriction. The restriction is based on individual class levels- the POTENTIAL for spellcasting or gaining a spell-like, psi-like, Su or Sp does not impede progression as a Primewarden. You have to actually gain such an ability before the restriction is enforced.

    As for your latter suggestion, I can't really see how that would fit the theme. The class is based on physical power and mundane force, so strength of personality giving a physical effect seems off to me.
    Last edited by Imrix.; 2007-05-24 at 09:43 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    So.. It's practically indestructable, but can't use magic items, so it can't deal damage through DR... While being nigh invincable, and able to kick anyone without a heavy natural DR in the socks.

    I think it's a very cool idea, but also very, very strong. After all, a 20th lvl caster needs to roll a nat. 20 to hit a 20th level Primewarden with a spell. And if that succeeds, this warden has full saves, a +6 bonus to all saves, so that's a nat +18, and then we have a look at it's stats, granting an average +20 on saves. Means they've got an average of 55% chance to make a save against a ninth-lvl spell cast at casting score 30.
    Oh, wait. Never mind. Anti-magic field.

    Now the fighter. The primewarden has a full-plate and towershield, dex 13+ and +6 bonus for class. That's a nice AC... 29. Okay; so not thát nice against a fighter's attack, as most fighters, or just about any other class, hits that with near-relative ease. But the Primewarden has a base attack of 26 at lvl 20, and is probably going to take feats for increasing this, and increases attack ability scores like a madhouse.

    So.. I'd call the class extremely powerful, partly because it is not very gear-dependant, like the monk, but is far more powerful than the gear-dependant monk. Of course; the monk can get buffed, and, more importantly, healed, but hey.

    All in all: Brilliant idea, but I think you should min-max some characters, including some for this class, and see what happens when you put them against eachother.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Thing is, after going through some of the monsters it comes to my attention that a lot of them don't NEED magic items- they're nasty enough with natural ferocity and resilience.

    Now, what Power of the Prime is, is basically a "poor man's set of magic items". Going purely by enhancements, a +5 sword will add +6 to attack rolls and +5 to damage. Yes, those things will be negated AGAINST a Primewarden, but try not to think of them fighting each other, as putting them in the same challenges against entirely identical monsters in completely different places.

    They can increase their stats a lot- the Fighter can use pay for Manuals or Wishes to do the same. A Primewarden gets a +6 bonus to AC- how much is the Fighter going to have in a vast variety of magic items? They get bonuses to saves? Even assuming the fighter can't match that with magic items, said Fighter gets wondrous items.

    I call wondrous items a much, much bigger advantage.

    Don't judge the Primewarden based on what it can do to other players in a one-on-one situation. Judge it on what it can do in a group situation, against another group of enemies.

    As another point- why are you comparing the Primewarden against classes which are well known to be underpowered like the Fighter and Monk? I mean, the Monk for Khaines sake!

    But, if you want to talk about one-on-one tactics, try a Rogue. Pump out the attack bonus, and if you have a ranged weapon you can even keep the attack bonus for a magical shortbow. Call it a minimum Dex of 20+? Hell, way more at 20th level. 26 perhaps? Coupled with the bonus from a magical weapon from outside an antimagic field, that should ignore the AC nicely. Now, you won't get the magical bonus to damage, but then that's what sneak attack is for.

    Coupled with traps, a decent amount of cover to keep striking and withdrawing in, and you can whittle a Primewarden away quite happily.

    Or how about a Barbarian? Call it a head-on assault, the Barbarian can have been buffed up over it's career with manuals and other magical means of adding mundane bonuses to stats. Add in the Rage, I think a Barbarian would be more than capable of matching a Primewarden- at the very least. More likely smear a Primewarden all over the area.

    Sure, a Primewarden can beat a magic or gear-dependant foe. Of COURSE it can, that's what it's meant to do. That's like saying a rgoeu can disarm traps!

    But not every foe depends on magic, or gear. And not every foe's magic needs to get past the anti-magic field.

    As for you wizard example, anti-magic field aside, I was under the impression that by 20th level, SR was effectively a non-issue. And saves? C'mon, if Wizards aren't boosting their save DCs out the nines, somethings wrong.
    Last edited by Imrix.; 2007-05-25 at 06:34 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    A few quick comments off the top of my head:
    -I wouldn't consider that they would be against most ARCANE magic, just the Divine stuff and most Conjuration spells. Seems better fluff for them to be against the interferance of other planes without throwing all of magic in there. That requires re-writing half the crunch for the class, but...

    -Compare and contrast the Forsaker PrC from "Masters of the Wild".

    -Might want to give them the feat "Faster Healing" if that is still around in 3.5...
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    - Well it depends how you see magic as "working". I'm not sure if D&D has a set-in-stone explenation, but I've always gone by the Warhammer theory- wizards are people who access an extra-dimensional plane of existence composed of pure energy, which they shape and use for magic.

    In any case, a vast array of spellcasters consort, either of their own volition or as a requirement of their spellcasting nature, with extra-dimensional beings. Guilt by association, at the least.

    - Nice class, might take a cue from that and add in a need to attempt saving throws against friendly spells, as well as being unable to suppress the SR. Still, it seems to me that they're roughly equal in terms of power. They'd probably get along like a house on fire.

    - It is still around, but I'd rather not actually give them anything more. If they want faster healing, easiest thing from my point of view would be to actually take it as a chosen feat instead of a bonus.

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Very interesting class this. Something just doesn't seem quite right though. Have massive attacks, saves, resistances, etc... so I guess they could basically be called a survivor type. Just not sure how well they would aid the rest of the group.

    I guess just basically as a fighter, who fights by sheer natural ability rather than by skill. Defientely a class folks would multi-class with. In fact, I'm almost thinking it might be a bit too tasty in that way, folks dabbling just to get stat bonuses.

    HD: 2D10 (pick the highest roll)
    Not quite sure what this means. Are you saying that every level they gain 2d10 instead of a single d10?

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
    I'd say you need to add Knowledge checks to this, specifically Arcana, Dungeoneering, and The Planes. That way you can identify your foe.

    Primewardens gain Favoured Enemy: Spellcasters every five levels, starting at 1st.
    Ok, so basically you can choose any creature type every five levels just like a Ranger?

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    I like the class but I think it needs a 'divine' (For lack of a better word) guidance from the prime material plane. I'd almost see it as a Druid prestige class.

    Its powers are too strong to not have some sort of supercharging influence. You need to flesh out its links to the prime and who accepts them\finds\trains them.


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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Originally posted by The Vorpal Tribble
    Not quite sure what this means. Are you saying that every level they gain 2d10 instead of a single d10?
    Not quite, it means you roll 2d10 for HP every level, but you only count the highest roll. So, if I roll an 8 and a 5, the 5 is discarded and I apply only the 8. I'll edit it for clarity.

    Originally posted by The Vorpal Tribble
    I'd say you need to add Knowledge checks to this, specifically Arcana, Dungeoneering, and The Planes. That way you can identify your foe.
    While I come from the school of thought that knowing your enemy is one step away from using your enemy against itself, which is in turn one step away from BEING your enemy, it's a good point. I'll add it in.

    Originally posted by The Vorpal Tribble
    Ok, so basically you can choose any creature type every five levels just like a Ranger?
    No, it means you get Favoured Enemy versus any enemy that has the ability to cast Divine or Arcane spells, regardless of creature type. SLA's and such aren't counted. So, a Primewarden would get the bonus against a wizard of any race, but a Balor would avoid it, since they don't normally have the abiltiy to cast actual spells. Just SLA's.

    Originally posted by sigurd
    I like the class but I think it needs a 'divine' (For lack of a better word) guidance from the prime material plane. I'd almost see it as a Druid prestige class.

    Its powers are too strong to not have some sort of supercharging influence. You need to flesh out its links to the prime and who accepts them\finds\trains them.
    I heartily agree, but I'm stumped as to how to actually describe that.
    Last edited by Imrix.; 2007-06-07 at 06:00 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Pretty sure the answer is no even before I check, but can they take a feat like Vow of Poverty? it's technically not a magical effect, is it?

    Second, if they are polymorphed into a form that allows Su, SP, or spell like abilities involuntairly, do they also lose use of class abilities, as if they'd multiclassed?

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Originally posted by Poppatomus
    Pretty sure the answer is no even before I check, but can they take a feat like Vow of Poverty? It's technically not a magical effect, is it?
    Interesting point. Technically, I suppose they could, although that would be utterly horrible. I realised that with the amount of feats out there, listing any feat that was magical in nature would be an impossible restriction, and a broadly-worded clause would always be argued by SOMEBODY. I'm rather stumped.

    Originally posted by Poppatomus
    Second, if they are polymorphed into a form that allows Su, SP, or spell like abilities involuntairly, do they also lose use of class abilities, as if they'd multiclassed?
    Good point, I'll add in a clause. For the record, I'd say no- so long as they do not make use of said abilities.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Well the Exalted feats are easy to remove at least, since they require you to subject your will to a good outsider of one kind or another. The reason I asked is because VoP could actually, in mechanics/fluff terms, go very well with this class I think, if you could somehow get around the god stuff.
    (I rather like the idea of an exalted good character that rejects the gods as firmly as he rejects the devils.)

    I agree completely with the Polymorph decision.

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Point. I'll leave it as-is on the feats front. Hopefully, most feats that allow magical ability will require some form of spellcasting...

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    One thing I'm intensely curious about is, what is this class's attitude towards fey? Fey are arguably both magical and intergral to the prime material plane.
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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Not knowing much about fey, I'd settle for a mix of them being the subject of heated debate, but mostly it'd come down to the atitudes of individual Primewardens.

    Why are they so integral, anyway?
    Last edited by Imrix.; 2007-06-08 at 06:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Well, some Fey are stalwart guardians of great things of natural beauty, such as forests and the animals within.

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    "If they rely on magic, it does not matter to me what they are or what they protect. They do not belong in the Prime."
    - Primewarden on the subject of Fey

    Quote Originally Posted by Imrix. View Post
    Interesting point. Technically, I suppose they could, although that would be utterly horrible. I realised that with the amount of feats out there, listing any feat that was magical in nature would be an impossible restriction, and a broadly-worded clause would always be argued by SOMEBODY. I'm rather stumped.
    Let them argue it. Nothing you write can protect DMs from themselves.
    Belkar's Bad to the Bone.
    Dispossible a fetter hein and bemay kine a sinder's tock.

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    Default Re: Primewarden (PEACH)

    Thanks, that clears a few things up.

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