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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    You mark Earth Tremor as red, but I can think of a use for it: A sorcadin or melee sorlock who whats a quick way to gain advantage with doesn't require concentration. Quicken it and anyone knocked prone grants advantage for a round for you and your allies. You don't even need to use up concentration on it.
    "I'll have my revenge, and Deathstalker (part) II! ™"

  2. - Top - End - #272
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by samcifer View Post
    You mark Earth Tremor as red, but I can think of a use for it: A sorcadin or melee sorlock who whats a quick way to gain advantage with doesn't require concentration. Quicken it and anyone knocked prone grants advantage for a round for you and your allies. You don't even need to use up concentration on it.
    Fair point.

  3. - Top - End - #273
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    The sorcerer's level 20 class feature, sorcerous restoration, isn't listed in the class feature. Is this intentional or just a mistake? Sorry if someone has already brought this up or if its explained somewhere but I was a bit confused as to why its missing.

  4. - Top - End - #274
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDuck View Post
    The sorcerer's level 20 class feature, sorcerous restoration, isn't listed in the class feature. Is this intentional or just a mistake? Sorry if someone has already brought this up or if its explained somewhere but I was a bit confused as to why its missing.
    It was accidentally deleted during a revision. Good catch!

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    SO im going to play a character who has a 'curse' on her which is her warlock status. This is being used to render her sorcerer powers hidden.
    MY question is simple i hope
    If we start at level 1 i will have to go warlock first...how many levels in a row and/or in total should i then take in warlock?...im thinking MAX would be 6 for story.

    On the other hand we may start at level 3 in which case my question is Should i choose Sorceror as the level 1 character and build some warlock levels in subsequently or should is it better that warlock is treated as the first class?

  6. - Top - End - #276
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Wizard: Don't cast spells with your dump stat.
    Wizard 2 can be good for a draconic sorcerer. Get lore mastery and now every spell you cast has +CHA modifier to damage and resistance to the damage type for 1 sorcery point.

    EDIT: also to get ritual casting
    Last edited by Destructor; 2018-12-31 at 04:15 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #277
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Destructor View Post
    Wizard 2 can be good for a draconic sorcerer. Get lore mastery and now every spell you cast has +CHA modifier to damage and resistance to the damage type for 1 sorcery point.

    EDIT: also to get ritual casting
    Draconic Sorcerer/Invoker 2 (evocation) is the greatest sorcerer I've played to date.

    Ritual Casting + Sculpt spells with empower and draconic boost is legit broken AF.

    Most fun character I've ever played.

    EDIT: It also so gives a nice surge in spells to prepare at level 1 that don't rely on int like shield and absorb elements
    Last edited by TheUser; 2018-12-31 at 09:53 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Question on Quickened Spell: Do you actually get to cast two spells a turn? PHB says that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast another on the same turn.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    strangebloke's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp1050 View Post
    Question on Quickened Spell: Do you actually get to cast two spells a turn? PHB says that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast another on the same turn.
    You can't cast two leveled spells on the same turn. You can cast a quickened spell, and a cantrip, though.

    So the real way to think about quicken isn't "I can cast two spells" its "I can cast a spell and do something else with my action."

    In general, it isn't very good unless you have something that isn't a spell that's really good. At low levels you will sometimes find that quickening a spell and then dodging is a good strategy. Quicken a spell and dash. The question you have to ask yourself is:

    "do I really need to cast this spell this turn?"

    -and-

    "Is what I'm doing with my action worth a second level spell slot?"
    I'm a tad rude. It's a tendency of mine that I'm trying to get better about. Call me out on it if you see it.
    Sacrifice your Humanity for POWER (homebrew effort)

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    It's also good for using spells that have a consistent need to use your action. (Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Enervation) and still cast another leveled spell while you're using it. It's pretty powerful, but like many things with the Sorcerer it has to be properly planned and set up.

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Godshoe's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Hi there!
    This guide is absolutely excellent, EvilAnagram, as all your others.
    May I ask, what you think about Giant Soul UA bloodline? How broken is it?
    Lisping and bad memory - what kills most aged wizards.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    You can't cast two leveled spells on the same turn. You can cast a quickened spell, and a cantrip, though.

    So the real way to think about quicken isn't "I can cast two spells" its "I can cast a spell and do something else with my action."
    I know a lot of people who have misinterpreted that particular minutia. Thank you for the clarification.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    A couple of ideas addressing the perceived disparity between wizards and sorcerers:

    1. Have sorcerers use the optional spell point system from the DMG. Put all one's spell points and sorcery points into one pool, to be used as the player wishes: spells or metamagic or whatever.

    2. Add the sorcerer's charisma bonus to the magic pool. This would slightly increase the amount of magic available daily.

    3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.

    I've seen option 1 suggested before; I don't think I've seen option 2, and I don't know of a good option 3 either.

    Any thoughts? OP or crazy or too complicated or ?

    Gratzi!

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    A couple of ideas addressing the perceived disparity between wizards and sorcerers:

    1. Have sorcerers use the optional spell point system from the DMG. Put all one's spell points and sorcery points into one pool, to be used as the player wishes: spells or metamagic or whatever.

    2. Add the sorcerer's charisma bonus to the magic pool. This would slightly increase the amount of magic available daily.

    3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.

    I've seen option 1 suggested before; I don't think I've seen option 2, and I don't know of a good option 3 either.

    Any thoughts? OP or crazy or too complicated or ?

    Gratzi!
    3. The draconic sorcerer is a the generic option already.

    And anyway, I don't think there is much of a disparity between Wizards and Sorcerers.
    Wizards get to be a swiss-knife with a lot of solutions to many situations, while Sorcerers get more potent spells via Metamagic and are more useful in combat I would say.

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Revaros's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    My fav. Sorcerer is a Paladin. Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 12 / Fighter 2. Gish smite all day, sometimes double with Action Surge.

  16. - Top - End - #286
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp1050 View Post
    I know a lot of people who have misinterpreted that particular minutia. Thank you for the clarification.
    That's not actually accurate and is cause of a LOT of misunderstanding.

    You can cast two leveled spells on a single turn. Examples:

    1. You move away from a creature on your turn, it makes an attack of opportunity against you. You cast Shield (a level 1 spell) so the attack misses. You then keep moving 10 feet away. You can cast any leveled spell you want that uses your Action, but you cannot cast any spell (leveled or otherwise, aka Shillelagh) that uses your Bonus Action.

    2. You use your Action to cast a spell on your turn. An enemy attempts to Counterspell. You can still use your Reaction to cast a Counterspell (a leveled spell).

    3. You use your Action to cast a spell on your turn. Because you have at least two levels in Fighter, you can then Action Surge and cast another spell that uses your Action.

    The general rule is: If you cast any spell with your Bonus Action at any point on your turn, you cannot cast anything other than a cantrip for the rest of your turn. If your Bonus Action is not used to cast any spell, you can do whatever you want for spell casting within the normal rules (one Reaction per round, etc.).
    Last edited by RulesJD; 2019-06-25 at 09:58 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #287
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Sorry if someone's already pointed this out, but Tempest Cleric is probably worth a two level dip on a Storm Sorcerer (or lightning element Dragon I suppose). You get some overlap with the 1st level ability, but heavy armor+shields, martial weapons, and the ability to deal maximum damage to every target you hit with a thunder or lightning spell 1/day (not to mention the utility of extra cantrips and 1st level spells) is well worth being behind on spells known. Requires some investment in STR to wear the heavy armor, but means you can dump Dex, so I'd call it net even there.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2019-07-23 at 12:22 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #288
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Sorry if someone's already pointed this out, but Tempest Cleric is probably worth a two level dip on a Storm Sorcerer (or lightning element Dragon I suppose). You get some overlap with the 1st level ability, but heavy armor+shields, martial weapons, and the ability to deal maximum damage to every target you hit with a thunder or lightning spell 1/day (not to mention the utility of extra cantrips and 1st level spells) is well worth being behind on spells known. Requires some investment in STR to wear the heavy armor, but means you can dump Dex, so I'd call it net even there.
    Indeed. It's pretty much the only way to make the Storm Sorcerer viable.

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    So what do you all think of that new Aberrant Soul Sorcerer origin that showed up in the UA?

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Hey EvilAnagram, great guide! I tend to read your guides when i'm about to create a new character.
    That said, i'm planning on creating an aberrant mind sorcerer, and would like to know your opinion on the subclass.
    Thanks in advance!

  21. - Top - End - #291
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
    3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.
    I don't actually agree. Sorcery is not a generic experience. Having magic welling up inside you spontaneously, without having studied it, made a pact with some entity, etc., is meant to be an unusual thing. It doesn't happen to just anyone — there has to be a reason for it. Something strange about you, and that something is going to be something specific. Could be something elemental, fey, divine, whatever, but it's going to be something. The idea of a generic sorcerer doesn't really make sense.

    It's like saying there needs to be an option for a warlock who doesn't want to have a patron, or wants one that's generic and uninteresting and doesn't really influence them in any way. It kind of negates the whole point of the class...

  22. - Top - End - #292
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    And on the topic of sorcerous origins — any chance of eventually adding the newer sorcerous origins to this guide? Sea sorcery, phoenix, etc.?

    My longest-running character is a sea sorcerer. I really like that origin, although partly just for flavour, as the character in question is also a selkie (from a homebrew version of that race). A few of my thoughts on its abilities:

    • Soul of the Sea is useful IF you're not already playing an aquatic race, though in practice a lot of people who would choose this origin probably are...
    • Curse of the Sea is very handy at lower levels, less so as you go up in level because the bonuses it gives you aren't as significant once you gain more powerful spells.
    • Watery Defence — the fire resistance is a definite plus, while the turning-to-water thing is only occasionally useful, but can be a lifesaver (sometimes literally) in a pinch.
    • Shifting Form and Water Soul I don't have yet, as I'm only level 10, but they sound pretty cool! We'll see how they work out in practice once I get there...


    Really, though, I think my finest sea sorcery moment thus far was hitting my entire party with Tidal Wave the other night... After first shouting "I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU DON'T ALL STOP FIGHTING I WILL DOUSE YOU LIKE A PACK OF FERAL CATS!" (my character is normally the patient, sensible one in the group, but it had been a rough night, and everyone has limits...).

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I'm new here, and far from an expert, but I don't get why Extended Spell rates so low - Shield, Blade Ward, and Color Spray are all terrific low level spells whose main limitation is that they last just 1 round. Casting any of those with a 2 or 4 round duration, long enough to enjoy the benefits for most of a fight, seems worthy of greater than a trash rating.

  24. - Top - End - #294
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by horsewithnonick View Post
    I'm new here, and far from an expert, but I don't get why Extended Spell rates so low - Shield, Blade Ward, and Color Spray are all terrific low level spells whose main limitation is that they last just 1 round. Casting any of those with a 2 or 4 round duration, long enough to enjoy the benefits for most of a fight, seems worthy of greater than a trash rating.
    The affected spell must already have a duration of at least 1minute. So sadly shield is not a valid extended spell.

  25. - Top - End - #295
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Galithar View Post
    The affected spell must already have a duration of at least 1minute. So sadly shield is not a valid extended spell.

    Shoot, I missed that. What a horrible thing to do to that ability.

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Extended is a good metamagic for Divine Soul sorcerers though, as many of the cleric spells have good durations to be extended, like Aid, Death Ward, Spirit Guardians, Regenerate, or Aura of Vitality.

  27. - Top - End - #297
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by horsewithnonick View Post
    Shoot, I missed that. What a horrible thing to do to that ability.
    I know, it's frustrating. Extended Spell is useful on a handful of spells (Aid, Aura of Vitality, Healing Spirit, Mage Armor, Conjure Animals, Foresight) but many of those spells aren't on the sorcerer spell list, and there are so many things you'd expect to be able to do with it that just don't work, and it isn't clear why.

    Extended Shield should be a thing but it isn't, unless the DM overrules the PHB.
    Purple text = personal judgment which I don't expect you necessarily to share. YMMV.

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  28. - Top - End - #298
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    From a DM fiat perspective, letting a few spells that normally can't be metamagic'd in certain ways, be metamagic'd that way, into a campaign isn't that bad.

    I mean, I'm always leaving magical two-handers around for GWMs, but they'd be a bow if that character was a shooter instead, or a halberd/spear/staff for a PAM. I leave spell scrolls or mini-spellbooks around for wizards. I tend to let druids see creatures that might be specifically useful, and give that little bit of extra guidance to clerics.

    There's thieves guilds in some cities, or churches, or druiding circles, or wizards that will help a young up-and-comer. Need non-metal heavy armour? There's a place you can get that, it's actually a stock-in-trade for some druids, but you'll probably have to do something for them first.

    Putting a treatise on true dragon magic, or a scroll of the revelations of Saint McTough, or giving you a vision during a particularly awesome thunder storm to explain why you now *can* cast extended Shield is pretty easy. It lets me pick and choose what you can do, but is really no different than me not rolling on random item tables for gear drops, or me being nice and changing a God's shrine into one you actually would worship at in a pre-written adventure, from a bend-the-rules perspective. If it gets OP, you have a disastrous sorcerer brain-burn-out of some sort, and then you all-of-a-sudden can't do it anymore. Problem solved.

    I mean, you learnt the spell (a finite resource for Sorcs) and the metamagic. Fighters use that argument all the time on why they *need* a specific magic weapon (awww, but I put stats and feats into it, so I should get the thing I need to use them), so why not a few extra-meta'd spells for a Sorc? I'm bending the rules for the fighter, surely a boosted spell or two can't be any more broken than an optimized fighter or wizard in a campaign?

    Explain it to your DM like that and they probably will let you have a couple, even if it is breaking the rules. It might not fly in AL, but I'm sure most other DMs would be fine with it.
    Last edited by sambojin; 2020-01-17 at 09:40 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    BurgTurdler's Avatar

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    d20 Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Hey Peeps, I asked about this a few years ago (it's gone now, I looked) but I just wrapped a seven year game. I FINALLY GET TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER! YAY!! So I'm ready to revisit it and there's a TON of new stuff out now, so that's awesome. Hopefully you guys can help me.

    I start this Saturday at level 1 and I want to do all the lightning. The plan so far is that I'm going with Storm Sorc. with a dip into Tempest Cleric. Basically, I want all the Lightning spells. The three ways I can think of to get Call Lightning are a 6 level dip into Druid, a 6 level dip into Bard, or a 5 level dip into Tempest Cleric. Having to dip into anything more than 2 levels means I don't get the sweet Level 18 feature though.

    Shocking grasp, lightning lure, witchbolt, lightning bolt, chain lightning, storm sphere, .... Am I forgetting any? Those are all within my reach I think.

    Am I way off on this? Can you think of a better way? Or maybe, what's some other "the best way to get all the lightning spells" in one character and just forget the above?

    I've already got a 3 page backstory written up for this character so I think I want to stick with Sorc for the first level. And obviously Elemental Adaptation will be grabbed too.

    Thanks so much (in advance) for your help everyone!!
    Giant thanks to Chromascope3D for the avatar!

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    MindFlayer

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    d6 Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by BurgTurdler View Post
    I start this Saturday at level 1 and I want to do all the lightning. The plan so far is that I'm going with Storm Sorc. with a dip into Tempest Cleric. Basically, I want all the Lightning spells. The three ways I can think of to get Call Lightning are a 6 level dip into Druid, a 6 level dip into Bard, or a 5 level dip into Tempest Cleric. Having to dip into anything more than 2 levels means I don't get the sweet Level 18 feature though.
    If I was your DM and you had a 3 page backstory written, I'd just put that spell on the sorc list for you. The only way I'm aware of to get this spell as a sorcerer without multiclassing is just asking your DM.

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