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Thread: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
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2015-11-20, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
If you haven't seen some of my previous threads, I love to make my own RPGs
I am making a new one called Futurequest, but the problem is, I can't think of a good "caster class" that uses the power of science
My only idea for one is a scientist, where he has the same function, but just buys different ammo for a special weapon he carries
An enemy unit that can attack is a Technomancer, who builds Minions, which are 3D humanoid silhouettes that function as ranged combatants, cybernetic "zombies" which are made from dead androids and spare cybernetic parts and "Liches", a bunch of cybernetic parts put together in a massive metal hulk
Then there are medics, who function as more of a nonviolent cleric, as they do in real life
What about druids, sorcerers, and Red Mages (heal and harm)?
Do you even think they are necessary?I'm a Lawful Good Human PaladinJustice and honor are a heavy burden for the righteous. We carry this weight so that the weak may grow strong and the meek grow brave
— The Acts of Iomedae, Pathfinder
Avatar made by Professor Gnoll
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2015-11-20, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
A scientist in sci-fi would function more like an Artificer than a Wizard. You could also base something off the Engineer from TF2, who focuses on team support (teleporters, dispensers) and area denial (sentries).
For something like Wizard, sci-fi usually uses psychic characters.
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2015-11-20, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
There is also some settings who gives exactly the power of wizards to some people with the argument "nanomachines"
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2015-11-20, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
I could add an Engineer which would be a sort of "red mage" which would be like the TF2 one (with some actual weapons, maybe being able to use handguns, shotguns, and assault rifles) and a PSI User would be a sort of a class that could be played by some sort of non-human race which could select a certain set of powers at the beginning and use a separate force, besides energy, which powers certain attacks, (energy powers everything from a scout's propelled leap to a marine's automatic fire and is replaced with batteries, the reason why it powers automatic fire is for balance)
I'm a Lawful Good Human PaladinJustice and honor are a heavy burden for the righteous. We carry this weight so that the weak may grow strong and the meek grow brave
— The Acts of Iomedae, Pathfinder
Avatar made by Professor Gnoll
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2015-11-20, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
[Scifi-noun]mancer
Neuromancer.
Nanomancer.
Cybermancer.
Etc.."Dying", a WAG Game Jam game, and my first video game. A narrative platformer with a hidden mystery, where you progress through dying: http://mask.itch.io/dying
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2015-11-21, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2015-11-21, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
Not really, a scientist would be more likely to study enemies and interactions, and isn't great as a 'character class'. And engineer would function almost exactly as an Artificer, and scientists can do engineering, but scientists are more about understanding. In short:
-Scientist: lots of deduction and breaking down, with some item making. (I'd give them an ability that allows them to get a bonus to rolls by preparing and running similar experiments)
-Engineer: lots of item creation, with some deduction.
*shudder* This is one of the worst ideas ever. Who would want to play a 'very small diviner' (yes, that is literally what Nanomancer means).
In short, if you want hard sci-fi the engineer and scientist are probably the closest you'd get to mages. If you want soft sci-fi then you can use psychics.
If you have a mesh-network and are willing to make hacking basic devices simple, hackers could also be decent hard sci-fi mages.
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2015-11-21, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
It's great if you want to be a criminal. Then you can be a small medium at large.
Agreed that hackers are a good stand-in. Beyond that, you have to figure out what you want your "caster" classes to do. If most of your casters are blasters, then basically any class with heavy firepower will work. If healing is a role you want, you have to decide how good medical tech is in your setting, or how comfortable you are with 4e "inspiration"-based healing. Similarly, buffs can be medical, technological, or through tactical leadership. Scientists and hackers work well for the "toolbox" aspect of magic...but you can also make a more balanced game, where that toolbox aspect is a feature of actual tools, accessible to any class. Incidentally, Batman-style item ownership is also a good casting replacement. ("What do you mean, you packed shark repellent?")Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
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2015-11-21, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
I just love that joke, whenever it turns up.
Agreed that hackers are a good stand-in. Beyond that, you have to figure out what you want your "caster" classes to do. If most of your casters are blasters, then basically any class with heavy firepower will work. If healing is a role you want, you have to decide how good medical tech is in your setting, or how comfortable you are with 4e "inspiration"-based healing. Similarly, buffs can be medical, technological, or through tactical leadership. Scientists and hackers work well for the "toolbox" aspect of magic...but you can also make a more balanced game, where that toolbox aspect is a feature of actual tools, accessible to any class. Incidentally, Batman-style item ownership is also a good casting replacement. ("What do you mean, you packed shark repellent?")
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2015-11-21, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-11-21, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
I used the literal translation as I know it, nano=very small and -mancer=diviner.
'Diviner of the very small' is the correct translation, but it's far less funny. Less more accurate, and more that the words need to be reordered to fit with modern English.
I don't actually know ancient Greek though, so I might be completely wrong about the meaning of -mancer, my point is 'fire diviner' and 'diviner of the flames' would both get the point across.
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2015-11-21, 07:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
Nanomachines. That is all.
"Dying", a WAG Game Jam game, and my first video game. A narrative platformer with a hidden mystery, where you progress through dying: http://mask.itch.io/dying
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2015-11-21, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2015-11-21, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Haven, Süthran (Homebrew)
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2015-11-21, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
Well, as far as druids go, I'm thinking something like a mad nanoroboticist. Everything from healing to raising the dead as zombies or otherwise can be explained fairly easily by adaptive and specially programmed nanites which repair damaged cell tissue, deliver or destroy toxins or disease, or amplify physical ability by chemically reprogramming the genetic code of the organisms they enter and 'infect'. Some of the stuff druids are known to do would be a little beyond the theoretical abilities of nanotechnology (like transforming into beasts or communicating with plants), but if you are okay with your sci-fi being a little soft, then it works pretty well.
Currently RPG group playing: Endworld (D&D 5e. A Homebrewed post-apocalyptic supplement.)
My campaign settings: Azura; 10,000 CE | The Frozen Seas | Bloodstones (Paleolithic Horror) | AEGIS - The School for Superhero Children | Iaphela (5e, Elder Scrolls)
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2015-11-21, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
The problem with having a wizard-esque class in a sci-fi setting is that a wizard is generally the keeper of an esoteric kind of lore whose effects are barred to society at large, whereas most scientists work in support of society at large. A scientist is much less likely to deploy their work as a practical effect than they are to develop the practical effect and give it to someone else to use. If you think of a lot of spell effects in most fantasy games, you see that they're self-contained field-practical affairs which stem from the mind or abilities intrinsic to the user. But in a sci-fi setting (unless you use "psionics" or something to that effect, and that's really just magic by another name), those effects would be deployed through some sort of equipment, and most of them could probably be used by any grunt after 15 minutes' training the day before.
The stuff the scientist can do that a soldier could not are mostly diagnostics and analysis—they'd be more like the thief class in D&D, dealing with out-of-combat obstacles with their skills and know-how, than like most wizards in fantasy games.
For an example of this in fiction, we can look at Stargate: SG-1, which has a very RPG-like cast setup. Samantha Carter is the "wizard" of the titular squad, clearly, but she doesn't really do anything in combat that anyone else with firearms training couldn't. Instead, she looks at alien technology or phenomena and figures them out for a few hours while the others wander around stand guard, before applying them to solve the problem the group is facing. She doesn't have specific abilities so much as a generally-applicable skill set which can be applied to many kinds of problem. It's a concept that would be very hard to base a full-fledged, satisfying class around, since in gameplay terms it would really boil down to a few skill rolls. (Notably, Carter isn't just a tech geek; she's also a fully-capable combat character.)
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2015-11-21, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
Um, EXCUSE ME.
Nanomancer is the one of the BEST ideas ever.
why? because Psychic is too soft, while an engineer or scientist or hacker are too bound to situational things.
a Nanomancer that controls a cloud of nanorobots are the ones that could replace a wizard, because you could do anything with nanorobotics in a more hard-scifi way than psychics. want a fireball? cloud of nanorobots instantly making a ball of plasma to throw at somebody. shapeshifting? nanorobots manipulating your body, mind-reading? nanorobots implanted in someones mind and transmitting the thoughts so that you can hear them, and so and so forth.
its the ultimate plausible sci-fi excuse.
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2015-11-21, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-11-21, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
But in almost any plausible SF scenario, a person who controls a swarm of nanobots is simply using technology that somebody else built and put on the market. There may be laws restricting the technology, but it's still something that is, or could be, mass produced. The only "magic" is in the gadget they bought, or were issued.
In a non-plausible SF setting you can go wild and have a character like Tony Stark who can build whatever "magic" the story requires him to have.
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2015-11-21, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
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2015-11-21, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-11-21, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
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2015-11-21, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
I don't need smarts. If personal fabbers have replaced markets, then they're really easy to use. I'll just download the plans for the nanobots from the internet.
If there's a mysterious AI who alone knows the secrets and who doles out nanobots to a few chosen, then the AI might count as a wizard, but the slob with the 'bots is still just using a magic item they don't understand.
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2015-11-21, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
If there's a mysterious AI who alone knows the secrets and who doles out nanobots to a few chosen, then the AI might count as a wizard, but the slob with the 'bots is still just using a magic item they don't understand.
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2015-11-21, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
or they're just a bigger wizard who is teaching the smaller wizard arcane secrets. like any archmage.
I don't see why your so against the nanobots just being a part of the character. if you really want to argue, magic doesn't seem all that intrinsic to wizard because its a separate force from them, therefore they are using an incorporeal magic item that fits inside their brain.
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2015-11-21, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
Savage Worlds has a weird scientist with inventions that work only for him. (Ray gun, force field, teleporter, zombifier. They can learn any power that a wizard or psionicist can learn.)
Money would be the main limitation for a tech character, although you could also go for a restricted limitation. Even though the technology you need might exist, it isn't generally available to the general public because they wouldn't be able to afford it. This works especially well in a post-apocalyptic setting, or you might just need unobtainium to make it work. Another explanation is that there isn't a market for what you need so it rots in developing hell forever.
Ofcourse, this would basically make you Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne and it wouldn't stop you from sharing your wealth with your allies. This also means that you're just a rogue with a wand of scorching ray.
I guess another thing you could do then is make someone who excels at using equipment. If a fighter excels at fighting and a wizard at magic, than wouldn't a technologist excel at using technology?
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2015-11-21, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
What secrets? We're talking about using an ordinary piece of household equipment here.
I'm not against nanobots being part of a character. I just don't think you can reasonably call that character a "wizard" in any plausible SF setting. Just like IRL the fact that I can pick up a gun and "magically" fire off a metal projectile at tremendous speed doesn't make me a wizard.
The fundamental problem with wizards as a concept is that in any plausible SF setting, "magic" is something that anybody can do, subject only to laws regulating the requisite technology. Any setting in which one character has access to super technology that nobody else can get (Tony Stark, for example) is not a very plausible one IMO - although it can still be an extremely fun one.
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2015-11-21, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
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2015-11-21, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2015-11-21, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Sci-Fi Wizard Replacement
in many fantasy settings, magic is also something anyone can do, regulated only by their level of training and knowledge of how to make it work (and laws, if such exist). It takes a lot more training than the stuff Tony Stark makes, but then Stark isn't a good analogue for a wizard the way he does superheroing.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”