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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Ranger Rework v1.65

    Spoiler: Design Notes
    Show
    - Familiar but unique: The ranger is historically a fighter kit in a rogue/druid direction, but it deserves its own flavor and mechanics. It will inevitably poach things from other classes but I want new and unique stuff in equal measure.
    - Powerful but balanced: Ideally i'm aiming for a paladin power level but the fighter, rogue, barbarian and monk are all good goals as well. Only a small power boost is really needed to get the ranger back on the power curve, but it also needs to be well spaced
    - Flavor: The basic concept of a ranger is of a wilderness character, which can branch in many directions. I hope to accommodate the vast majority of these visions without throwing away the ribbons and mechanics people have come to couple with the ranger.
    - Mechanics: The ranger's niche is hard to place. Not straight up combat (barbarian, paladin) nor evasive (rogue, monk), the ranger lies between. It's hard to give him a clear role without taking it from other classes. I went for a blend, allowing him to take either or both with some utility thrown in as well.
    - Subclasses: Reduced slightly in power due to the better base, Beastmaster remains a subclass, as does the favored enemy/terrain path. Only casting spans across all ranger types, and even that is contentious when asking what people think constitutes a ranger.
    - Inspiration: Making use of UA content to flesh things out and make sure nice things are more evenly spaced from levels 1-20. Still a little front heavy, comparable to 2-3 levels in fighter, rogue, paladin, warlock

    The Ranger

    Level Prof Special Abilities 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1 2 Favored Enemy, Keen Eye, Trailblazer - - - - -
    2 2 Fighting Style, Spellcasting, Unerring Accuracy 2 - - - -
    3 2 Clave, Primal Awareness 3 - - - -
    4 2 ASI 3 - - - -
    5 3 Extra Attack, Fast Movement 4 2 - - -
    6 3 Healing Salves 4 2 - - -
    7 3 Clave Feature 4 3 - - -
    8 3 ASI 4 3 - - -
    9 4 - 4 3 2 - -
    10 4 Favored Enemy and Trailblazer Improvements 4 3 2 - -
    11 4 Clave Feature 4 3 3 - -
    12 4 ASI 4 3 3 - -
    13 5 - 4 3 3 1 -
    14 5 Primal Step 4 3 3 1 -
    15 5 Clave Feature 4 3 3 2 -
    16 5 ASI 4 3 3 2 -
    17 6 - 4 3 3 3 1
    18 6 Feral Senses 4 3 3 3 1
    19 6 ASI 4 3 3 3 2
    20 6 Master of the Wild 4 3 3 3 2

    Hit Dice: d10
    Armor Proficiencies: Light Armor, Medium Armor & Shields
    Weapon Proficiencies: Simple & Martial Weapons
    Saving Throws Proficiencies: Strength & Dexterity
    Skill Proficiencies: Choose 3 from Animal Handling, Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Nature, Perception, Stealth and Survival

    Favored Enemy
    At 1st level, choose one creature type as your favored enemy. Alternatively you can choose one bloodrace of humanoids (bluebloods, greenbloods or redbloods). You learn one language that your favored enemy speaks, if any.
    Additionally, you cannot be surprised by your favored enemy and when you roll damage for an attack against a favored enemy you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.
    At 10th level you can change your favored enemy to another type when you finish a long rest.

    Keen Eye
    At 1st level, you can take the Search action as a bonus action

    Trailblazer
    At 1st level, your travel speed and ability to navigate is not hindered by natural terrain, stealth or tracking.
    At level 10 your travel speed, navigation and tracking ability cannot be hindered by magical means.

    Fighting Style
    At 2nd level, choose one fighting style from the following: Archery, Dueling, Hand-and-a-half, Polearms, Two-Weapon Fighting
    Spoiler: New Fighting Styles
    Show

    Hand-and-a-half: +1 to hit and damage when using a versatile weapon in both hands
    Polearm: When using a reach weapon hostile creatures treat the space within your reach as difficult terrain


    Spellcasting
    - Wisdom based
    - Spells prepared (half level + wis) from the ranger list (plus Elemental Weapon)
    - Recover on a Long Rest
    - No ritual casting

    Unerring Precision
    At 2nd level, when you make a weapon attack you can expend one spell slot to roll an extra two die and add the result to the attack roll, potentially turning a missed attack into a hit. These extra die are d4s for a 1st level spell slot and increase in size for each spell slot above 1st, to a maximum of d12s.

    Clave
    At 3rd level, choose one Ranger clave to follow. Changes to the PHB Hunter and Beastmaster are found below, subclasses found in other sources can be used freely.

    Primal Awareness
    At 3rd level, as an action you can sense the presence and direction of the following types of creatures within one mile: aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, undead. This feature does not reveal the distance, number or strength of these creatures.
    You can use this feature a number of times equal to 1+ your Wisdom modifier. When you finish a long rest, you regain all expended uses.

    ASI
    As per PHB

    Extra Attack
    As per PHB

    Fast Movement
    At 5th level, while you are not wearing heavy armor your movement speed increases by 10 feet.

    Healing Salves
    At 6th level, as part of a long rest you can prepare a number of medicinal salves and poultices equal to your wisdom modifier, minimum 1. As an action you can apply a salve to a creature within reach to heal 2d6 plus your Wisdom modifier HP or to grant a saving throw advantage against a poison or disease the recipient is suffering from. Unused salves expire if they are not used before your next long rest.

    Primal Step
    At 14th level, you are no longer affected by difficult terrain.

    Feral Senses
    At 18th level, when you attack a creature you canít see, your inability to see it does not impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it. You are also aware of the location of any invisible creature within 30 feet of you, provided that the creature isnít hidden from you and you are not blinded or deafened.

    Master of the Wild
    At level 20 you increase your Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Wisdom scores and maximums by 2

    Spoiler: Ranger Claves
    Show

    Spoiler: Hunter
    Show

    Level 3: Bonus Spells
    Snare, Spider Climb, Meld into Stone, Locate Creature, Far Step

    Level 3: Hunting Style
    Giant Killer: When a large or larger creature misses you with a melee attack it provokes an Opportunity Attack from you
    Horde Breaker: When you use the attack action you can make an extra attack against a different creature within your reach
    Skirmisher: If you move 10 feet or more away from where you start your turn, your weapon attacks deal an extra +1d6 damage until the end of your turn

    Level 7: Defensive Tactics
    Alacrity: Spells and other magical effects cannot reduce your movement speed
    Escape the Horde: Opportunity attacks made against you are rolled at disadvantage
    Iron Will: You cannot be frightened

    Level 11: Superior Hunting Style
    Relentless Hunter: Once per turn you can add your Wisdom modifier to the attack and damage rolls of one attack you make
    Rain of Iron: You can use your action to make one melee weapon attack that targets all creatures within reach, or one ranged weapon attack that targets all creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within range.

    Level 15: Improved Defensive Tactics
    Evasion: When you make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed and only half damage if you fail.
    Uncanny Dodge: When a creature you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the damage of the attack


    Spoiler: Beastmaster
    Show

    Level 3: Bonus Spells
    Animal Friendship, Beast Sense, Catnap, Dominate Beast, Hold Monster

    Level 3, Beast Companion
    - Gain one beast of CR 1/4 or lower
    - Add your proficiency bonus to your beasts AC, attacks, damage, saving throws and ability checks
    - Your beast's maximum HP equals its normal maximum or 4x your Ranger level, whichever is higher
    - Your beast acts on your initiative, moving under your direction (no action required)
    - As a bonus action you can direct your beast companion to take an action. Your beast can only attack once on its turn.
    - Once per long rest you can regain or obtain a new companion during a short rest

    Level 7: Bolster Beast
    Your beast's attacks are considered magical for the purposes of overcoming damage resistance.
    Additionally, as an action you can touch your beast to restore a number of hit points equal to twice your ranger level. Once you use this feature you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Level 11: Bestial Fury
    Your beast companion can make two attacks when you command it to take the attack action

    Level 15: Share Spells
    When you cast a spell targeting yourself you can also affect your beast with the spell if it is within 30' of you


    Spoiler: Spirit Walker
    Show

    Level 3: Call Spirit
    You gain access to 2 spirits from the list below. The benefits of a spirit are activated using a bonus action

    Level 7: Spirit Touched
    You learn two druid cantrips and can prepare three spells drawn from the Druid spell list. These do not count against your ranger spells prepared. You can cast any of these spells as rituals if they have the ritual tag.

    Level 11: Greater Spirits
    You gain access to a third spirit, and when you use your Call Spirit ability you can choose to gain two benefits from those you have access to simultaneously.

    Level 15: Spirit For:
    As an action you can assume spirit form, gaining a flight speed equal to your movement speed and Resistance to nonmagical weapon damage for 1 minute. While in this form you can move through solid objects as long as your movement ends in an empty space. Once you have used this ability you must finish a long rest before being able to do so again.

    Spoiler: Spirit List
    Show

    Aggression: Deal Force damage equal to your Wisdom modifier to creatures that hit you with melee attacks until the end of your next turn

    Ferocity: Gain Temporary HP equal to your Wisdom modifier

    Folly: Grant one creature you can see disadvantage on saving throws against your ranger spells until the end of your turn

    Instinct: Gain advantage on one attack roll against a creature you can see until the end of your turn

    Power: One creature within reach must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell DC or be knocked Prone



    Spoiler: Waste Walker
    Show

    Level 3: Bonus Spells
    Create or Destroy Water, Dust Devil, Wall of Sand, Blight, Antilife Shell

    Level 3: Desiccating Touch
    When you take the Attack action you can replace one weapon attack with a melee spell attack which deals 3d6 + Wisdom modifier Necrotic damage.

    Level 7: Withered Toughness
    You gain resistance to fire damage, and when you aren't wearing armor your AC is 13 + your Constitution modifier. A shield's benefits apply as normal while using this natural armor.

    Level 11: Aura of Aridity
    Creatures that start their turn within 10 feet of you must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell DC or gain one level of exhaustion, to a maximum of two levels. You can use and action to raise or suppress this aura.

    Level 15: Create Sand Golem
    When you slay a creature, you can reduce the creature's corpse to dust and sand that animates as a clay golem under your service, the statistics for which can be found in the Monster Manual.
    The golem acts on its own initiative and obeys your verbal commands. It remains in your service for up to one hour, at which point it crumbles into a pile of sand.
    Once you create a golem with this feature you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest.


    Please leave me your critique, opinions, evaluations, and thoughts! This is obviously a work in progress, and I'd love to hear any feedback!
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-03-14 at 12:10 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.2

    Bump.

    Edit: Many changes since then, referred ability doesn't even exist anymore.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-03-06 at 11:32 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.2

    I like it.


    I've been working on chain master, it is a beast master whose beast is on a chain and through that chain you can cast your spells through your beast like hunters mark. Something along those lines, and yes the beast would like to kill you.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    I love the idea of using the prof bonus to initiative, so I'd push to put that part of alacrity back into the class.

    I also loved the UA Ranger having 2hd per level. But instead of d6s maybe make them d4s? Higher average than a fighter, cleaner recovery options, lower average maximum HP. Adds another unique benefit of the class.

    Other than those notes I love this redesign. You did a great job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Not everyone has the resources or the ability to become a wizard or a sorcerer, after all. Warlocking just requires a pact, very democratic, really. Doesn't require wealth or a magical lineage, just a promise, and all of your problems will go away.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Hi!

    I really like most of it, some abilities from the Beastmaster and Spirit Walker subclasses seem to me as over the curve.

    The Base Class
    It looks very solid, but as you wrote yourself, quite frontloaded and it would become arguably one of the best MC options. I specially dislike that by lvl 1 you get two bumps in damage and I would move that.

    Btw - Skirmish - How high is the bonus damage? Either I missed it or it is not stated.

    I would do something like:
    Lvl 1 - Fighting Style, Primal Awareness
    Lvl 2 - Alacrity, Spellcasting
    Lvl 3 - Subclass, Skirmish

    Subclass: Hunter
    Looks solid to me. Relentless hunter is really umph... I would add it to damage only to avoid -5/+10 cheese.

    Suclass: Beastmaster
    I really hate the 5e RAW that the pet is treated like a robot. On the other hand, they did in order to remove actions from the Character, because a pet and a Char with all his actions gets out of hand. There are plenty of Beastmaster Threads who show that the Beastmaster can be a real Beast in DPR when built right.

    What I see here is that you made the beast weaker at start, but more autonomously.. At lvl 10, the beast finally gets as strong as the RAW one, and I believe that this is way too strong when it is enough to just once order it to attack with one Bonus Action for example.

    I think there are three possible solutions - either make entirely new beasts with unique stats that are balanced or allow durable companions that dont do much damage (mounts basically) or go the RAW route and allow strong offensive companions that eat up your actions..

    Subclass: Spirit Walker
    This appears to be to a Ranger what the Favored Soul is to a Sorcerer.
    Cantrips are fun and cool (Shillelaqh!) The additional spells are very powerful because as I read it they are based on Ranger level and not on spell slot level - meaning that for those spells, the Ranger is treated like a full caster.
    The spirts use up your Bonus Action, so TWF becomes a trap option. Spirits are very powerful options indeed.
    Lvl 15 seems to be too much of gains, I would take one of the three away.
    Lvl 18 - I would write it differently - I do not know if this was intended or not, but I would say 1/day the Ranger may turn incorporeal for 1 min and by that he gains flying and immunity to non-magical weapons.

    In my opinion, as written, you could cheese the crap out of the Beastmaster to a point where it stops to be funny at all for anybody and the Spirit Walker is somewhere in the middle between the Hunter and the Beastmaster, I feel it is somewhat stronger than the Favored Soul. - Less Nova, less casting but much better melee and awesome use for the bonus actions.
    Last edited by Markoff Chainey; 2016-01-13 at 04:46 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    I kinda like this, it isn't that good yet but the features are cooler and the ranger isn't really stronger than he was (just a little bit). Still, this makes an alternate ranger but not really a stronger ranger.
    Replace fighting style to level 2, as it is now.
    Get primal awarness level one, and move the bonus on initiative to level 3. Or just swap fighting style and the bonus to initiative.
    Last edited by PoeticDwarf; 2016-01-14 at 11:23 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    I love the idea of using the prof bonus to initiative, so I'd push to put that part of alacrity back into the class.

    I also loved the UA Ranger having 2hd per level. But instead of d6s maybe make them d4s? Higher average than a fighter, cleaner recovery options, lower average maximum HP. Adds another unique benefit of the class.

    Other than those notes I love this redesign. You did a great job.
    Sorry for my double post, but I just see this now and I can double quote because I already posted a post (well I don't know how to do it now, but it's stupid of me).

    If you give it 2d4 it isn't average higher than a fighter (5 vs 5.5 and because 5.5 is rounded up it would be 5 vs 6), I also like the ideas of 2HD, but 2d6 sounds as too much and 2d4 isn't enough (well it is if the class is made a little bit stronger)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    I think a great benefit for 2hd per level, is that when you spend your hit dice, you gain your CON modifier on both. So a lvl1 ranger with con14 could heal 2d4+4 (9) instead of 1d10+2 (7.5). Or i may have missed something. Also, i believe that there was an errata or tweet that said that with the durable feat, if you have a dx less than 10 and you have con20, you still treat the dx roll as a 10. That would mean with two HD per level, the ranger could use HD like crazy. Again, i just might be comepletely off here xD
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

    All my homebrew is open for use or playtests for everyone. If used or playtested, i would LOVE to hear what you find of it!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Few small critiques:
    The way you word skirmish, it makes it so that the increased movement speed makes it more difficult to actually meet the requirements for the skirmish bonus, it really just needs a "not affected by additional move speed" or a set distance and your set.

    It could just be the fact that I hate favored enemy, but hunter just doesn't seem to have that level awesome that the other two have. I mean, a animal companion has a million uses, and spells are always awesome, but hunter only becomes relevant in combat at level 10, and only consistently useful at level 18.
    Player: I'm going to make a new character, I suck at bard.
    Me: Your only saying that because you died.
    Player: So?
    Me: Everyone dies when they do stupid stuff between two rogues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Your companion? The goblin you are using as ammunition.
    Surprise! You've got no legs!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Steampunkette's Avatar

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Maybe set it to 20 feet?

    That way short limbed races and long limbed races can both move "Most" of their movement speed to get the bonus.

    Though I would suggest making it so the characters can't move between two squares over and over until they spend enough movement to get the bonus. That just seems silly.
    Last edited by Steampunkette; 2016-01-16 at 06:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Not everyone has the resources or the ability to become a wizard or a sorcerer, after all. Warlocking just requires a pact, very democratic, really. Doesn't require wealth or a magical lineage, just a promise, and all of your problems will go away.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Hello,

    If you don't mind, I'm going to use your rework as a base for my own and draw ideas from it.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Totally loving this ranger. I just woke up so I'm still not all the way awake but...

    You should set skirmish to moving 10'. It has history (scout in 3.x) and it won't push people to optimize for slower rangers in order to pull off skirmish.

    Getting faster is a hindrance to their effectiveness.

    I think you can leave out a qualifier.about where the ranger ends up, just leave that to DMs.

    Also, and this may be stepping on the toes of the Rogue a bit, but this class is screaming the need for a Bonus Action disengage.

    How about a first level spell like expeditious retreat but it gives you the disengage action instead of the dash action? Or how about allowing you to do less skirmish damage in order to BA disengage, like drop Skirmish damage dice by one step (minimum 0dice) in order to BA disengage?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Why not pick an ability from the Swashbuckler? Fancy footwork denies the target of your attack an OA, thus allowing the PC to move away without having to spend a bonus action. Also, since it is a more limited form it can be gained earlier (when it's mostly needed).
    Quote Originally Posted by Elderand View Post
    You and your common sense again ! :P

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Oh hey, responses! Always like responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    I love the idea of using the prof bonus to initiative, so I'd push to put that part of alacrity back into the class.

    I also loved the UA Ranger having 2hd per level. But instead of d6s maybe make them d4s? Higher average than a fighter, cleaner recovery options, lower average maximum HP. Adds another unique benefit of the class.

    Other than those notes I love this redesign. You did a great job.
    Thankyou! The bonus to init is indeed still present, though I'd argue against the 2dx for HD. Theres all sorts of repercussions that I can't fathom when it comes to short rest healing and it is something different that doesnt really need to be. In fact i think a d8 hit die may be in order with all the other goodies they get. Will have to see how ti plays out, current game with tester only just reached level 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markoff Chainey View Post
    Hi!

    I really like most of it, some abilities from the Beastmaster and Spirit Walker subclasses seem to me as over the curve.

    The Base Class
    It looks very solid, but as you wrote yourself, quite frontloaded and it would become arguably one of the best MC options. I specially dislike that by lvl 1 you get two bumps in damage and I would move that.

    Btw - Skirmish - How high is the bonus damage? Either I missed it or it is not stated.

    I would do something like:
    Lvl 1 - Fighting Style, Primal Awareness
    Lvl 2 - Alacrity, Spellcasting
    Lvl 3 - Subclass, Skirmish

    Subclass: Hunter
    Looks solid to me. Relentless hunter is really umph... I would add it to damage only to avoid -5/+10 cheese.

    Suclass: Beastmaster
    I really hate the 5e RAW that the pet is treated like a robot. On the other hand, they did in order to remove actions from the Character, because a pet and a Char with all his actions gets out of hand. There are plenty of Beastmaster Threads who show that the Beastmaster can be a real Beast in DPR when built right.

    What I see here is that you made the beast weaker at start, but more autonomously.. At lvl 10, the beast finally gets as strong as the RAW one, and I believe that this is way too strong when it is enough to just once order it to attack with one Bonus Action for example.

    I think there are three possible solutions - either make entirely new beasts with unique stats that are balanced or allow durable companions that dont do much damage (mounts basically) or go the RAW route and allow strong offensive companions that eat up your actions..

    Subclass: Spirit Walker
    This appears to be to a Ranger what the Favored Soul is to a Sorcerer.
    Cantrips are fun and cool (Shillelaqh!) The additional spells are very powerful because as I read it they are based on Ranger level and not on spell slot level - meaning that for those spells, the Ranger is treated like a full caster.
    The spirts use up your Bonus Action, so TWF becomes a trap option. Spirits are very powerful options indeed.
    Lvl 15 seems to be too much of gains, I would take one of the three away.
    Lvl 18 - I would write it differently - I do not know if this was intended or not, but I would say 1/day the Ranger may turn incorporeal for 1 min and by that he gains flying and immunity to non-magical weapons.

    In my opinion, as written, you could cheese the crap out of the Beastmaster to a point where it stops to be funny at all for anybody and the Spirit Walker is somewhere in the middle between the Hunter and the Beastmaster, I feel it is somewhat stronger than the Favored Soul. - Less Nova, less casting but much better melee and awesome use for the bonus actions.
    Initial bonuses to damage is a bit of a problem yes, I'll probably reorganize those at some point.
    Skirmish starts as a d4 and goes up 1 step matching prof bonus, same as monk die steps actually.
    For hunter, our games remove the -5/+10 altogether, which has met 0 complaints so far.
    Beastmaster is (as WotC said themselves) difficult to balance. Too weak and its a liability, too strong and you're playing two characters.
    I like the idea of tank/mount beasts, though using a specified statblock also has merit. I'll have to run some math, unfortunately the tester chose hunter. I'd like to provide the opportunity for all kinds of companions (mounts, tanks, flankers, DPS, utility, etc)
    For Spirit shaman, getting new spells known is supposed to be when you gain access to those spell levels using the ranger progression rather than at levels 3,5,7,9,11.
    They also take away a few bonus action casting tricks, the price you pay. I do want to be careful on power creep.
    Probably the spirit
    The incorporability was supposed to bestow only the abliity to move through solid objects, I didn't realize it was a written monster ability that gave other stuff.
    Thankyou! Beastmaster is definitely getting looked at.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnderDwarf View Post
    I kinda like this, it isn't that good yet but the features are cooler and the ranger isn't really stronger than he was (just a little bit). Still, this makes an alternate ranger but not really a stronger ranger.
    Replace fighting style to level 2, as it is now.
    Get primal awarness level one, and move the bonus on initiative to level 3. Or just swap fighting style and the bonus to initiative.
    Good that it isn't a straight buff. I see the ranger as pretty well balanced, just lacking the personal touch that other classes recieved
    Primal awareness fits great with level 3 subclass bonus mostly because of its ribbon nature, and I wouldn't want to put it before casting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teapot Salty View Post
    Few small critiques:
    The way you word skirmish, it makes it so that the increased movement speed makes it more difficult to actually meet the requirements for the skirmish bonus, it really just needs a "not affected by additional move speed" or a set distance and your set.

    It could just be the fact that I hate favored enemy, but hunter just doesn't seem to have that level awesome that the other two have. I mean, a animal companion has a million uses, and spells are always awesome, but hunter only becomes relevant in combat at level 10, and only consistently useful at level 18.
    Very true, will change that to set 10'. Makes skirmish much more usable in melee too, last session I literally saw the test ranger dancing circles around foes just to get the distance up and it was a little annoying.

    Hunter is a little lacklustre, but it is supposed to be straightforward. Patience pays off at the end though with the massive bonus to attack/damage. Hopefully I can bring the other two down to match the hunter rather than the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khrysaes View Post
    Hello,

    If you don't mind, I'm going to use your rework as a base for my own and draw ideas from it.
    I would love it, please send me a PM or write here how it goes! Playtesting is always good.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Totally loving this ranger. I just woke up so I'm still not all the way awake but...

    You should set skirmish to moving 10'. It has history (scout in 3.x) and it won't push people to optimize for slower rangers in order to pull off skirmish.

    Getting faster is a hindrance to their effectiveness.

    I think you can leave out a qualifier.about where the ranger ends up, just leave that to DMs.

    Also, and this may be stepping on the toes of the Rogue a bit, but this class is screaming the need for a Bonus Action disengage.

    How about a first level spell like expeditious retreat but it gives you the disengage action instead of the dash action? Or how about allowing you to do less skirmish damage in order to BA disengage, like drop Skirmish damage dice by one step (minimum 0dice) in order to BA disengage?
    Cheers! It would be going into rogues too much, there is a limit I want to place on his mobliity. A new spell akin to expedious retreat would fit perfectly though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendol View Post
    Why not pick an ability from the Swashbuckler? Fancy footwork denies the target of your attack an OA, thus allowing the PC to move away without having to spend a bonus action. Also, since it is a more limited form it can be gained earlier (when it's mostly needed).
    The mobility feat already does this very well, its one of those feats that just suits the class. Much like sharpshooter for archer rangers, mobile is a perfect fit for melee rangers. I don't see much of a need to include any more mobility between that and moving too close to rogue territory.



    Also, i'm thinking of tweaking down the spellcasting down a bit since everything else is more solid. Less spells known is about all I can think of at the moment though, unless I make it a partial caster (which would suck and make me redo spirit shaman more).

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Potential fix for the Beastmaster.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...on-System-Idea

    Slottable companions that provide static and active bonuses. Unequip the companion for scouting and the like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Not everyone has the resources or the ability to become a wizard or a sorcerer, after all. Warlocking just requires a pact, very democratic, really. Doesn't require wealth or a magical lineage, just a promise, and all of your problems will go away.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Haven't finished reading all of it but first thing I noticed is the new fighting style you included "hand and a half" doesn't really work... unless i'm missing something. There are no light weapons that have versatility, additionally, versatility usually increases the damage value one tier at the cost of using your off hand for anything else. So the only way to dual wield versatile weapons would be to get the two weapon fighting feat and then sacrifice the increased damage value you get for wielding a 2 handed weapon with 2 hands.

    Edit:

    I also do not see any info on the Mariner fighting style and I don't recall seeing that in any of the 5E books.

    Healing Salves: Seems rather powerful to me, mostly because as it stands they last forever. Because of this the ranger could make a ton during any party downtime. (i.e. the part has a week to rest/shop, ranger with WIS 16 could make 3 each day w/o a chance of failure or a component cost, and they heal better than potions of healing do. I personally would recommend either requiring a check to find the material and make the poultice or make it so they only last a couple days to eliminate the chances of stockpiling them. This may just be my own opinion but yeah, it seems like it should be harder to find healing items than that.

    Vanish is simply a lesser version of Cunning Action which the rogue gets at 2nd level.
    Last edited by takore; 2016-01-25 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Finished reading

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Potential fix for the Beastmaster.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...on-System-Idea

    Slottable companions that provide static and active bonuses. Unequip the companion for scouting and the like.
    Intriguing. A nice alternative for those not interested in the added bookwork.

    Quote Originally Posted by takore View Post
    Haven't finished reading all of it but first thing I noticed is the new fighting style you included "hand and a half" doesn't really work... unless i'm missing something. There are no light weapons that have versatility, additionally, versatility usually increases the damage value one tier at the cost of using your off hand for anything else. So the only way to dual wield versatile weapons would be to get the two weapon fighting feat and then sacrifice the increased damage value you get for wielding a 2 handed weapon with 2 hands.
    Tis in the spoiler, Hand-and-a-half adds +1 to attack and damage when using a versatile weapon in two hands. Offers more accuracy over GWF style at the cost of slightly reduced damage (though still competitive).

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Intriguing. A nice alternative for those not interested in the added bookwork.



    Tis in the spoiler, Hand-and-a-half adds +1 to attack and damage when using a versatile weapon in two hands. Offers more accuracy over GWF style at the cost of slightly reduced damage (though still competitive).
    ahhhh, alright, the way it is worded was making me think you had to have a versatile weapon in each hand, not wielding a single weapon 2 handed.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Thinking of taking a somewhat uniform approach to the beastmaster. Like for example all beasts have the same basic statblock split into three stages: One for level 3, one for level 10 and one for level 18. Each basic type of beast will have a couple of different abilities that get added to the basic block (For example a serpent beast will have poison, a canine beast trip attack/pack tactics and an avian beast flight speed and mobile-eqsue trait). This will take away using MM entries for your beast and also not need to have the ranger add his proficiency into everything, which makes balancing a lot easier. The possible downside is that when you get it its great, then it doesn't progress with you for a significant chunk of time so it loses usefulness as you level until you hit the next statblock. Thoughts?

    For example:
    AC 14/16/18
    HP 1/2 Ranger

    Str 14 (+2)
    Con 14 (+2)
    Dex 14 (+2)
    Int 4 (-3)
    Wis 10 (+0)
    Cha 10 (+0)

    Attack +4/+6/+8
    Damage 1d6+2 (6) / 1d8+4 (9)/ 1d10+6 (12)

    First ability/trait at 3
    Second ability/trait at 10
    Third ability/trait at 18

    Then shuffle abilities so beastfriend applies at 3rd, bolster at 7th and share spells at 15th. At level 10 you might also grant a limited empathetic link with beast and at 18 the ability to call it from anywhere on the same plane, allowing it to arrive at your side within say 1 minute. Just a thought.

    Edit: Another thought is to reduce casting to 1/3 ala Eldritch Knight / Arcane Trickster, and taking the Spirit Shaman subclass would bring that up to the current 1/2 casting. This would mean having to start the subclasses at level 2 as well as some reworking of the spirit shaman itself.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2016-01-26 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.4

    Changes to beastmaster made, should be much easier to tweak and balance the power now that they all will have the same stats and abilities.

    What do people think? Still a bit strong IMO, but need some math on HP and damage output.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2017-10-25 at 07:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    What about adding other subclasses done in UA. I'd like to see horizon walker, deepstalker , and monster slayer, and guardian.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    I like where this is going. Never played a Ranger other than the material Strategic Review gave but it was the disappointing class when I first read 5th Edition. Leaving aside the whole Legolas/Aragon/who-what defines a Ranger nightmare, I envisioned it as a Melee and Missile class (spells optional) character. While WOTC chose the equally valid Melee or Missile class landing more heavily IMO on the latter. Still not sure how much spells and which ones fit how I envision a ranger TBH. (To Be Honest)

    I would like to have seen more versatility in natural skills (what works in a woodland works in a mountainous, coastal, or prairie setting to a large degree but that may be residual Second Edition AD&D syndrome) without magic but I have no suggestion on how to make that viable. Yet.

    Nice work! After I get a good grasp on playing Fighter, Monk and Cleric I may try some revision of Ranger next instead of a Wizard/Sorceror next.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    What about adding other subclasses done in UA. I'd like to see horizon walker, deepstalker , and monster slayer, and guardian.
    After getting a more viable base Ranger (WOTC - hint, hint) that might be useful though I am concerned about UA because it, to my understanding, is not tested as much towards balancing it versus core classes. Optional rules/settings are great but too often easily broken upon play testing as seen from OD&D on.

    Adding them after creating a more competitive Ranger class then testing them for balance would be ideal.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

    I am the eternal Iconoclast.

    Mountain Dwarfs Rock!

    Song of Gorm Gulthyn
    Blessed be the HAMMER my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

    Otto von Bismarck Quotes

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Quote Originally Posted by takore View Post
    Haven't finished reading all of it but first thing I noticed is the new fighting style you included "hand and a half" doesn't really work... unless i'm missing something. There are no light weapons that have versatility, additionally, versatility usually increases the damage value one tier at the cost of using your off hand for anything else. So the only way to dual wield versatile weapons would be to get the two weapon fighting feat and then sacrifice the increased damage value you get for wielding a 2 handed weapon with 2 hands.

    Edit:

    I also do not see any info on the Mariner fighting style and I don't recall seeing that in any of the 5E books.

    Healing Salves: Seems rather powerful to me, mostly because as it stands they last forever. Because of this the ranger could make a ton during any party downtime. (i.e. the part has a week to rest/shop, ranger with WIS 16 could make 3 each day w/o a chance of failure or a component cost, and they heal better than potions of healing do. I personally would recommend either requiring a check to find the material and make the poultice or make it so they only last a couple days to eliminate the chances of stockpiling them. This may just be my own opinion but yeah, it seems like it should be harder to find healing items than that.

    Vanish is simply a lesser version of Cunning Action which the rogue gets at 2nd level.
    The comments on healing salves is great and something a new player like myself would miss. Valid points in effectiveness and stockpiling.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

    I am the eternal Iconoclast.

    Mountain Dwarfs Rock!

    Song of Gorm Gulthyn
    Blessed be the HAMMER my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

    Otto von Bismarck Quotes

    When you want to fool the world, tell the truth.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.4

    Small update: Cleaned up a whole bunch of writing and formatting.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2017-10-25 at 07:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.5

    Another update. With Xanathar's coming out soon I shuffled the table and abilities to be compatible with subclasses found in external content (PHB hunter and BM replaced with those found here).
    Last edited by Kane0; 2017-10-25 at 07:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    Well with the advent of Xan's Gloom Stalker and Horizon Walker i've had to rejig a bit to avoid duplicate/similar features and correct power disparity. Another update!

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    i like this change you made, for the level 10 feature i might suggest an improved unerring Precision, or another utility ability for combat. Maybe even something like deflect missles, or something similar they do with a reaction that is more defensive orientated. Or maybe a something social like bonus to insight checks to see if someone is lying based off of body language and extend that to animal handling to detect a beasts mood?

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    I checked over things I may have missed in the PHB and came across Favored Enemy/Natural explorer improvements. Seeing as level 11 is the typical direct combat boost they seemed to make sense to add these sorts of features at level 10. Makes both ribbons a lot more prominent.

    If you look at Favored enemy it has a pretty substantial boost to social checks are built in, especially with how I handle the humanoid type (split into three categories, covers lots of ground). A second FE at level 10 seemed appropriate, plus a minor combat benefit to go with.

    Still looking for ideas and improvements though, it's a fine line to walk between useless ribbons and powerful gamebreakers when it comes to the Exploration pillar in particular.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2018-03-07 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Ranger Rework v1.3

    for the level 10 improvements, might i suggest adding the following line to Walker of the Wilds:
    "and you know if it is being attempted."


    For improving favored enemy, it be better to be able to change it on a long or short rest than to just get a second one.

    Also rename Walker of the Wilds to Pathfinder.
    Last edited by Mortis_Elrod; 2018-03-08 at 06:25 PM.

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