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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    d6 have any of you killed a pc because

    I ran a 1/2 orc wizard others at the table purposely killed the character stating 1/2 orcs are not a wizard class. You wasted good rolls.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    What in the actual F?

    I would never play with people like that, ever. They killed your character for not being an ideal class build?! And not just that they gave you flak during character creation, but they actually incited PvP, and killed your character because it was not optimized....That is far beyond being a powergaming munchkin, that is just being a jerk.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Geddy2112 View Post
    What in the actual F?

    I would never play with people like that, ever. They killed your character for not being an ideal class build?! And not just that they gave you flak during character creation, but they actually incited PvP, and killed your character because it was not optimized....That is far beyond being a powergaming munchkin, that is just being a jerk.
    Indeed. I hope you left the table after that. They don't deserve to play with anybody.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Âmesang's Avatar

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    d20 Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    That's stupid. That's really, really stupid. Half-orcs may not be the most optimized class for wizards, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be wizards. Hell, the unusualness of the situation makes me want to know why the half-orc's a wizard! I'd say that offers some great potential for an interesting backstory!

    In my last group's "last" session we killed a PC because his character had gone insane and the player himself was moving away (his father, another player, had his character coincidentally get shifted to the Elemental Plane of Earth). As such the majority of the party decided to send off the character… by killing him.

    I just find it distasteful to kill off someone's character purposefully, whether as a player or as a referee, and my character… who's chaotic-evil, oddly enough… had all of the tools necessary to un-insane the guy (always keep a scroll of limited wish hanging around). All the party had to do was restrain the guy and it'd be done. They even argued that my character shouldn't care one way or another because she's chaotic-evil, however she's an intelligent (though not necessarily wise) chaotic-evil — why in the world would anyone just throw away a useful tool/meatshield like that?

    (The whole time I was suggesting that once un-insaned the player's character could, after some scrying, be shifted over to the Elemental Plane of Earth to track down his father's player, giving, what I believed, would be a much more noble send-off for both of 'em. Ah, well.)
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    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I've GMed games which had a bit of friendly fire, but this is ridiculous even by those standards. PCs dying because other PCs fled to save their own necks? Sure. PCs dying because it was hit them and finish off a deadly enemy or let the deadly enemy escape? Sure. A PC dying because the player was annoyed at the other player who fled to save their own neck and abandoned their previous character? Sure. All of these were games GMed as a teenager, none of these were high points, the players were generally younger teenagers, and even in that dynamic this sort of thing stands out as completely out of hand.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Things like this are why I make it very clear that I don't allow PvP whenever I DM. It becomes too easy for other people to ruin the experience of the other players for the pettiest of reasons.

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    ............ *goes to get his +1 Jerkbane Greataxe*
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    ............ *goes to get his +1 Jerkbane Greataxe*
    Now that would be a nice thing to have.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    I ran a 1/2 orc wizard others at the table purposely killed the character stating 1/2 orcs are not a wizard class. You wasted good rolls.
    If your DM actually allowed this to happen, he owes you a free resurrection. Along with an apology, which those other players also owe you. They wasted your good rolls, not you.
    Last edited by TheIronGolem; 2015-12-08 at 07:49 PM.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSonOfDave View Post
    Things like this are why I make it very clear that I don't allow PvP whenever I DM. It becomes too easy for other people to ruin the experience of the other players for the pettiest of reasons.
    OTOH, I have seen Players use a DM's "no PvP" rule to be gigantic jerkwaffles to various members of the party, or to dig their heels in and refuse to follow the rest of the group unless they get their way.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    So there was a PVP that killed off the players after they just straight up attacked someone because they thought they had a shiny sword and wanted it in one of my games. The two paladins and cleric of helm in the party were not impressed. When that character "resisted arrest" they killed him.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I generally don't allow PvP when I DM, allowing described conflicts instead and calling for a simple opposed roll when necessary to resolve a conflict. That being said, I do enjoy setting the players against each other now and again, especially if they don't realize that it's happening. In a low (2-5) level campaign I presented a set of 5 artifacts to be collected. After collecting the first and finding that it provided a +2 to dex they eagerly set off after the next figuring that each player would get a nice boost to there primary stat. After collecting the second (+2 str) they discovered that if one character held both of the artifacts the effect became +4 to each stat. I spent the rest of that session grinning while they each argued that they should hold the stones. Many grapple checks and sleight of hand rolls ensued.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Even as a sadistic DM, I see my job as less, "Kill the PCs," and more, "Present the PCs with opportunities to die if they do something stupid."

    In any group of four or more players, I can nearly always count on someone choosing the latter option.

    But I've never had a game turn out like the one the OP described, not would I run (or participate in) a game for players like the OP describes. My mind boggles at the depths of psychopathy on display there. What train of logic are those people riding?

    "We don't want suboptimal characters in this party."
    -> "Half-orcs are suboptimal wizards."
    -> "We don't want a half-orc wizard in this party."
    -> "We are going to kill our half-orc wizard, thus weakening our party (most suboptimal characters not being active liabilities)."
    -> "By weakening our party, our characters are behaving in a suboptimal fashion."
    -> "By our own logic, our characters, too, ought to die."

    I hope the DM immediately provided them with an encounter where having an extra half-orc wizard might have saved them from a TPK.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    d20 Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I'm thinking of the old adage that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link… which immediately makes me imagine the party dangling by the chain and instead of strengthening the weakest link, removing it entirely… causing the entire chain to split in two as the party falls to their doom.

    "Oh crap crap crap — we didn't think this through!"
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    themaque's Avatar

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Once we where all playing fairly straight D&D characters, except for one guy. He was this huge hulking monstrosity. This big brutish near monster who looked horrible and smelled bad. He comes into town, starts drinking and causing a ruckus.

    The wizard casts sleep, they lock him in the wood shed and call the local authority claiming to have captured a monster. The player decided to make someone else.

    So in this essence they "Killed" the character because they ignored the flashing PC symbol above his head and acted like... well most adventurers honestly. I felt bad for the guy but he wasn't upset made something more in theme with the party and we all had fun that campaign. There where still ways to redeem and keep that weirder character but he just chose not to take them.

    If you are playing a group with Warhammer Dwarves suddenly introducing an Elf will have some problems. However, that's where communication of expectations comes into play.

    OP the group you are playing with are just JERKS. Killing someone for playing a non-optimized class/race combo? That's just horrible.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    I ran a 1/2 orc wizard others at the table purposely killed the character stating 1/2 orcs are not a wizard class. You wasted good rolls.
    What?

    Please tell me your party is comprised of evilly aligned racists?

    Also, what DM repurcussions were there?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    My advice: Tell them they're right. That half-orc wizards are sub-optimal and that your character deserved to be killed by the party, and that you'll come up with a better optimized character. Then show up to the next session with Pun-Pun, and laugh as they try to kill you.

    Bonus points if you kill all of them for being sub-optimal
    Last edited by TheFamilarRaven; 2015-12-09 at 01:08 AM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    cobaltstarfire's Avatar

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    OTOH, I have seen Players use a DM's "no PvP" rule to be gigantic jerkwaffles to various members of the party, or to dig their heels in and refuse to follow the rest of the group unless they get their way.
    Why not just uninvite a player like that rather than put up with those kinds of shenanigans?

    OP, that stinks are there nicer players around that you can join?

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    I ran a 1/2 orc wizard others at the table purposely killed the character stating 1/2 orcs are not a wizard class.
    It sounds as if they've acquired that skill in the class COMPLETELY UNCOOL. If they had such opinions on "correct" characters, it should have been discussed and resolved long, long before Session One even started. I would suggest finding a new group and never return to play with players such as those.

    At the table I'm at, I would judge that I am the most "dickish" and have initiated the only PvP incident (via reasonable confusion) so far. That being said, the situation logically and organically led my character to that confused conclusion.
    It was an overnight encounter while my character was asleep. We get jumped by a small pack of wolves and our Druid was on watch. He kicks our third character awake before shapechanging into a wolf. The third character takes a round to wake up and promptly kicks my character awake while yelling that we're being attacked by wolves. My character takes a round to wake up. Several lucky rolls between the other two had dispatched the last of wolf pack just as it came to my character's turn in initiative. My character, still kind of disorientated, dagger in hand, leaps at what he believes is a remaining wolf... the shapechanged Druid. The Druid reverts to normal allowing my character to immediately realize his mistake. With profuse character apologies and my character expending a cure light wounds spell, the party begins the day.

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    MesiDoomstalker's Avatar

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Had some similar issues when trying to run a Warforged Wizard. And then more issues when I didn't take Magic Missile. I don't play with those people anymore. Niether should you.
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    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Âmesang View Post
    I'm thinking of the old adage that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link… which immediately makes me imagine the party dangling by the chain and instead of strengthening the weakest link, removing it entirely… causing the entire chain to split in two as the party falls to their doom.

    "Oh crap crap crap — we didn't think this through!"
    I'm thinking there's one functional link in this whole chain, and it's the OP. You know that whole stereotype about D&D players being antisocial and incapable of behaving reasonably? The rest of this group sounds like Exhibit A in that.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I played in a fantastic rolemaster campaign (every weekend for over 5 years) that featured only evil PC's. There was plently of PvP in that campaign.

    I recall my Warrior Mage being attacked by a fellow PC's Chaos Lord (in a tavern) and turned into a plow horse (while having his spine severed) on account of an 'E' physical alteration crit.

    Of course we were mature enough to treat it all as a bit of fun.

    In the right group it can add an element to the campaign that can be quite fun. In the OP's example (in the absence of any other qualifiers) it sounds like a bunch of tools and some very lackluster DMing.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I would have interpreted this as a statement that the group ran on survival-of-the-fittest rules, come to the Playground, asked for the best goddamn wizard build possible, and destroyed the universe with it.

    Then stared at the GM and players, stating "I thought it was the rule here that if something's less optimized than you, you kill it just to prove a point."

    Then flipped them all the bird and walked out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    You know no matter your race choice as long as your LA is 0 you make a great wizard since you only need 19 int and everything in excess is not needed for being the best guy of the universe even if you take straight wizard 20(and even if you waste some levels in dips in classes who does not progress spell-casting you stay really good)
    Being optimized is needed only if you are not T1.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    I once, back in 2nd edition, killed the party Thief because he was sneakthieving from the other party members and then planting the items on other other party members deliberately to provoke pointless fights for his own amusement. While we were low level and on the run in enemy-held territory.

    Come to think of it, we were generally horrible players to each other back in the day--mainly because none of us actually wanted to be playing D&D. It was simply a system that everyone could play at a very basic level and was played only when nobody wanted to organize a game of something people actually liked. It wasn't until 3.0 came along that people started playing D&D for the sake of playing D&D.

    However, the OPs little story would have been considered intolerably jerkish even by our standards.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Yeah, no. Unless someone is going out of their way to be a roadblock to the party, or is completely inappropriate for the game (Stereotypes R Us, MaxOp grinder, etc), there's no reason to gank someone. Hell, this is something that should be discussed at table before dice start spinning.

    Playing against type can be a challenge, but it can also be a ton of fun. Goliath Rogues are just so wrong, and so awesome.

    The only time I've seen other PC's deliberately killed (or otherwise removed) by the players was when that player wanted to change characters. This gave an in-game rationale for a switch, and was done per that player's wishes.
    Last edited by Joe the Rat; 2015-12-09 at 09:13 AM. Reason: One good reason
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by themaque View Post
    Once we where all playing fairly straight D&D characters, except for one guy. He was this huge hulking monstrosity. This big brutish near monster who looked horrible and smelled bad. He comes into town, starts drinking and causing a ruckus.

    The wizard casts sleep, they lock him in the wood shed and call the local authority claiming to have captured a monster. The player decided to make someone else.

    So in this essence they "Killed" the character because they ignored the flashing PC symbol above his head and acted like... well most adventurers honestly. I felt bad for the guy but he wasn't upset made something more in theme with the party and we all had fun that campaign. There where still ways to redeem and keep that weirder character but he just chose not to take them.
    Surely the DM could have dealt with that along the lines of "the town mayor/magistrate/guard captain refuses to get out of bed to deal with this nonsense, come back in the morning" at which point the hulking wotsit wakes up with a hangover and points out that he's broken no laws and paid for all his drinks, several of everyone else in the tavern's drinks and he didn't even start that bar fight anyway.

    And then drop the adventure hook on them that means they all have to travel together now.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe the Rat View Post
    Playing against type can be a challenge, but it can also be a ton of fun. Goliath Rogues are just so wrong, and so awesome.

    Reppin' that dwarf bard my entire 3.5 career.


    Plus in AD&D 2e a grey elf nobleman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    ............ *goes to get his +1 Jerkbane Greataxe*
    H-hey... watch where you're pointing that thing.

    To people that actually know me, it might come as a shock that I don't like PvP. That said I have killed other PCs as a player, it's not something I'm proud of though. Certainly never for being poorly optimized-- I'd have to make my character kill themselves if that were the case.

    The most notorious killin' other players thing I did would have to be taking part in a plot to kill half our party. The plan was to off them immediately after a climactic battle, and it worked great. Except there was a big falling out afterward and the campaign ended. Like I said, I'm actually ashamed of doing that though.
    Iop brain.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: have any of you killed a pc because

    Had a game once where I played a Necromancer. No matter how hard I tried to show our Cleric that I was using them for good purposes, he always would attack me or my minions (even ones i turned during battle). Finally, I got tired of it and just lagged behind the group and pitched in where I could since I knew staying in the group was going to cause issues. I had talked to the guy out of game and said if I could come up with proof that they were used for good he would be ok with it, yet the numerous examples I gave were never good enough. By the time we got to the final boss (this campaign had lots of undead) I was sick and tired of the shenanigans. Everyone else had finally accepted that I was doing good except him. So I made came to the final conclusion of what needed to e done. I pulled the DM off to the side and explained what I was about to do. When we went in to the fight, I just sat out of the fight until the guy was being attacked by the undead in the room. I immediately started casting and eventually the guy died. He couldn't figure out why the undead wouldn't die, but then neither could the rest of the group. I had simply told the GM that the next big fight we had, I was going to heal the undead attacking the cleric with priority going to the last one he hit. Once the fight started, I did my thing telling the DM how much "damage" I did. When the other people asked what I was doing I gave a description of the spell and the DM had them make their spot checks. One guy new exactly what was going on from the description, but since he failed the roll he couldn't say a word, but he was laughing the whole time. They finally figured out what happened after the fight, but by that time my character was long gone and the campaign was over. I don't like doing pvp, but I was tired of his crap after about 5 weeks of playing 6 hours a week and not getting anywhere despite doing what he said I needed to for him to trust me.

    That's the only time I killed another player on purpose. I've done things by accident that have resulted in people being seriously maimed, but usually the only person I get killed is myself. Like playing a character witha -1 str bonus and no skills in swim. The campaign started on a boat for two weeks in game; you can figure out what happened there.
    Last edited by JonU; 2015-12-09 at 03:17 PM.

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