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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Long story short: playing a 7th lvl gestalt game with a Wild West theme, and everybody's either a Gunslinger or something similar (Swashbuckler and Inquisitor, due to their similar sub-systems, for example) on one side, and whatever they want on the other. My basic idea is a redneck hillbilly goblin who got real good at shooting, sneaking, and riding, and is making his living as a drifter/merc for hire now. It's a Guns Everywhere/Advanced Firearms setting, so no worries on that end, but what to combine it with, with full 9ths casters off the table? Here's what I've been debating over:

    1) Fighter

    Tons of feats is always great, weapon/armor training/advanced training is great, and there's a number of interesting archetypes. The bad news is that the basic Fighter chassis does nothing for me: I've already got full BAB, d10 HD, good Fort, and 4 skill points.

    2) Ranger

    Favored Enemy isn't super-great mechanically, but the extra ranged feats are nice, there's lot of neat archetypes (such as Divine Marksman and some of the animal companion buffers), I can pick up an animal companion, it gives me a few extra skills to work with, and Favored Terrain is quite flavorful. Unfortunately, outside of the skill points boost, the base chassis isn't really an upgrade here.

    3) Unchained Rogue

    Pros: more skill points, rogue talents, skill unlocks. Cons: chassis isn't an upgrade except for skills, and ranged full attack doesn't mix well with Sneak Attack. Still, sneak attack makes for a nice "super-snipe" ability, particular when combined with Dead Shot (even if it's not super-effective, it's super-flavorful, although I'd still like a way to full attack SA at ranged without heavy magic).

    4) Slayer

    The chassis doesn't do anything for me but a couple skill points, but Studied Target is useful, the SA is still there for the aforementioned "super-sniper shot" trick, it gets Slayer Talents...all lovely things. Still, Unchained Rogue would be better if I can find a way to use SA more often.

    5) Magus

    Upsides: spell combat/spell strike can be done at ranged with the right archetype IIRC, it gives me spells to work with, it gives me a good Will save (the only class under consideration so far to do so), and it gives me spells for utility outside of combat. Downsides: it's Int-based, instead of Wis-based. Now I ain't 'xactly playin' an idgit, don' get me wrong here, but my mama di'n' raise no sissy wizard who's struck helpless wi'ou' their fancy-schmancy book learnin' to back 'em up. If there was a way to make this class Wis-based, or even to take away the spellbook, it'd fit my fluff a lot better, and I think it would be pretty solid mechanically.


    Any thoughts on these classes that might make them more/less appealing? Are there any I haven't considered that might be worth checking out? Is Monk worth a dip, unchained or otherwise? I appreciate all feedback.

    Also, a quick question about the Dead Shot deed: it seems like it should add your damage bonus in addition to your base damage (it excludes bonus damage dice like SA and flaming, just like crits, but crits multiply that stuff), but the text doesn't seem to indicate that multiple hits count damage bonuses multiple times. Is that the way it's supposed to work, where 3 attacks at 1d12+1 going into a Dead Shot deal 3d12+1 if they all hit, or is it intended to be 3d12+3?
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2016-12-08 at 06:02 PM.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    How about Hunter? Wis synergy. Animal companion (for the riding part of your theme). Ranged feats and Ranger spells that can also help a ranged character.


    I assume no 3pp, otherwise I would have a ton of suggestions for you.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Inquisitor can be very nice with Bane on your gun, and Sacred Huntmaster gets you an animal companion as well. Hunters are similar to Sacred Huntmasters, in that they can both pull off some nasty Teamwork tricks like Wounded Paw Gambit. Both of them give you skills and spells for some badly-needed versatility.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Eldritchscion magus switches to Cha based casting, and iirc, is compatible with eldritch archer.

    If you then go mysterious stranger gunslinger, you have grit and casting off of charisma.

    Additionally, dead shot only multiplies the weapon's damage dice, not flat damage, so you'd end up with 3d12+1.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_archduke View Post
    How about Hunter? Wis synergy. Animal companion (for the riding part of your theme). Ranged feats and Ranger spells that can also help a ranged character.


    I assume no 3pp, otherwise I would have a ton of suggestions for you.
    Hunter sounds good, definitely! And yeah, 3PP is off the table, DM doesn't wanna deal with too much. I might be able to get it if I ask, but I'd rather not overload them with requests, so I'd prefer to only ask about a couple things I'm sure would be fantastic (my current 3PP things I'd want to request are the Profession Rogue archetype and the Gunslinger PrC).

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    Inquisitor can be very nice with Bane on your gun, and Sacred Huntmaster gets you an animal companion as well. Hunters are similar to Sacred Huntmasters, in that they can both pull off some nasty Teamwork tricks like Wounded Paw Gambit. Both of them give you skills and spells for some badly-needed versatility.
    Inquisitor could be good, although the flavor isn't a great fit...but then, maybe I could play up the religious aspect? On a similar note, is Warpriest worth looking into?


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sayt View Post
    Eldritchscion magus switches to Cha based casting, and iirc, is compatible with eldritch archer.

    If you then go mysterious stranger gunslinger, you have grit and casting off of charisma.

    Additionally, dead shot only multiplies the weapon's damage dice, not flat damage, so you'd end up with 3d12+1.
    Goblin's pretty closely tied to the character concept, and they get a Cha penalty. Not saying it couldn't work, but I don't think that's a direction I'm interested in taking it. Plus, Eldritch Scion delays full spell combat to 8th lvl, so I won't be starting with it.

    That sucks about Dead Shot. Maybe I can talk the DM into letting it work differently...probably not, though.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    While not Gestalt, I'm currently playing a "sniper" that I built by multiclassing Bolt Ace (Gunslinger), because Crossbows don't make a noise; and Sniper (Slayer). Took Bolt Ace up to level 5 mostly to get the awesome DEX to Damage effect. Sniper gets Deadly Range at level 2, witch allows Sneak Attack at max weapon range (most of the time). I also plan on taking Accomplished Sneak Attacker as my next feat. Basically, I'm maxing Stealth to take advantage of the Sniping rule for Stealthing, but this takes away from my iterative as I have to spend my move action to remain stealthed. This is why I took Vital Strike. A wand of Greater Invisibility is only 21,000 gp. Overall, I'm a stealthy 1 high damaging bolt a round character

    On a side note, Ranger / Hunter get an awesome spell for ranged attacks: Gravity Bow. Use Gravity Bow then double the dice with Vital Strike . They also get Wind Wall, which if I'm reading it correctly will give any gun a 30% miss chance if fired through it, which if a very nice defensive option. (Sorcerers and Wizards also get these spells)
    Last edited by DedWards; 2016-12-08 at 07:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Vigilante - Gunmaster

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    Vigilante - Gunmaster
    I admit, I hadn't considered the vigilante. It's certainly an interesting option I'll have to look into.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    The Gunmaster at least seems like a bad idea. The things it gives you, you already get from gunslinger.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Investigator or Inquisitor. Both have solid damage abilities, skills, and spells.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post


    2) Ranger

    Favored Enemy isn't super-great mechanically, but the extra ranged feats are nice, there's lot of neat archetypes (such as Divine Marksman and some of the animal companion buffers), I can pick up an animal companion, it gives me a few extra skills to work with, and Favored Terrain is quite flavorful. Unfortunately, outside of the skill points boost, the base chassis isn't really an upgrade here.
    Actually, they have a spell called "Instant Enemy' so if you can find a way to quicken that, put it on a familiar or just straight away spend a standard action to do it, you can have all your favored enemy stacks on one type and have them transfer to one target in order to melt it in 1 round. At 18th level that's +18 or something on every shot, and that'd be crazy for a TWFer with double-barrelled revolers. 8 attacks(hasted) is like 16 shots so that's +288 if it goes on every bullet or +144 if it goes once per "attack" (I can't remember). That's without all the other modifiers. It's not that bad, while there are other options you can surely look into.
    Last edited by Hogsy; 2016-12-08 at 09:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogsy View Post
    Actually, they have a spell called "Instant Enemy' so if you can find a way to quicken that, put it on a familiar or just straight away spend a standard action to do it, you can have all your favored enemy stacks on one type and have them transfer to one target in order to melt it in 1 round. At 18th level that's +18 or something on every shot, and that'd be crazy for a TWFer with double-barrelled revolers. 8 attacks(hasted) is like 16 shots so that's +288 if it goes on every bullet or +144 if it goes once per "attack" (I can't remember). That's without all the other modifiers. It's not that bad, while there are other options you can surely look into.
    I think the errata'd the double-barreled stuff to not be quite as ridiculous. Also, it's an entire party of gunslingers; dealing enough damage is not going to be a huge issue unless the enemy is immune to bullets, in which case this wouldn't help. Still, something to keep in mind as a nova option if I go Ranger.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I think the errata'd the double-barreled stuff to not be quite as ridiculous. Also, it's an entire party of gunslingers; dealing enough damage is not going to be a huge issue unless the enemy is immune to bullets, in which case this wouldn't help. Still, something to keep in mind as a nova option if I go Ranger.
    As for the others you have mentioned, I personally think fighter is boring and won't give you that much. Rogue's SAs are awesome but PF doesn't have great feat support for the rogue(such as dragonfire strike or craven) as for Inqui I am not a huge fan of the class so I don't know anything about it. You could always be a spellslinger with 1 lvl of crossblooded sorc. Something like CB Sorc 1, Spellslinger 6/Gunslinger 5, x 1. Gunslinger generally don't offer that much past 5 so I personally would just multiclass after that. Fighter 2 isn't so bad since you'll get 2 combat feats to round up your build and you could go towards something else after that, such as the Ranger who's favored enemy will apply to your spell shots from SS btw. You could even pick up Instant Enemy as a wand, and ask your DM if you can buy a wandchamber for it or sth on your gun(s). Since you'll already have tons of damage SS might not be so bad since it's still a wizard despite forsaking 4 schools.

    "This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently
    as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action)."

    I am not quite sure what "as seperate attacks" means. Does it mean you can TWF with 1 pistol or? But yeah, the last part of the sentence kind of ruins it. They were pretty crazy after all.


    Paladin also has a gunslinger archetype, although since you're already a gunslinger I don't think it's that useful, but you could still go Paladin for support and whatnot.

    Finally, taking into consideration your character background, I also wholeheartedly suggest you go full bard on the other end of your gestalt. Sure, goblins don't go with charisma, but since you're picking goblin for the fluff, you could always ask your DM is you could get a +2 to cha 'cause you were born an especially handsome goblin(Not sure how that could happen but still) and get the GS archetype that scales with Cha. Even with the -2 to Cha you could still be relevant and having fun if you dump another stat a tad more so you could at least get Cha 16. Bard's Inspire Courage can be pretty crazy with a banner of the forgotten king(iirc) giving +5 or 4 to attack and damage rolls to everyone(including yourself) at your current level. Bard is a class that you really have to dig in order to have fun with it though.
    Last edited by Hogsy; 2016-12-08 at 09:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    The two barreled "separate attack" part is for single shots. Like when your bab hits +6. You load both barrels, fire one barrel for your +6 and the other for your +1 attack. No need to reload in-between.
    In a "guns everywhere" setting, double barrels aren't needed/worth it.

    I always kind of like the idea of a monk//gunslinger. Runs off of DEX and WIS, boosts Will save, gives you a solid non-ranged attack option. And there are plenty of archetypes to work with.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I admit, I hadn't considered the vigilante. It's certainly an interesting option I'll have to look into.
    Perhaps base vigilante is a better option, but it seemed like some of the bonuses the gunmaster gets might stack.

    but if you are interested in playing a low tech punisher, it seems pretty good.

    also you might consider alchemist, grenadier.. seems pretty neato since they can enhance ammunition with alchemical liquids and powder, not to mention explosive missile is awesome with a gunslinger. you can fit a bullet with alchemical fire and a bomb and fire it in one round.
    Last edited by Blyte; 2016-12-08 at 10:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogsy View Post
    As for the others you have mentioned, I personally think fighter is boring and won't give you that much. Rogue's SAs are awesome but PF doesn't have great feat support for the rogue(such as dragonfire strike or craven) as for Inqui I am not a huge fan of the class so I don't know anything about it. You could always be a spellslinger with 1 lvl of crossblooded sorc. Something like CB Sorc 1, Spellslinger 6/Gunslinger 5, x 1. Gunslinger generally don't offer that much past 5 so I personally would just multiclass after that. Fighter 2 isn't so bad since you'll get 2 combat feats to round up your build and you could go towards something else after that, such as the Ranger who's favored enemy will apply to your spell shots from SS btw. You could even pick up Instant Enemy as a wand, and ask your DM if you can buy a wandchamber for it or sth on your gun(s). Since you'll already have tons of damage SS might not be so bad since it's still a wizard despite forsaking 4 schools.

    "This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently
    as separate attacks, or both can be fired at once as a standard action (the attack action)."

    I am not quite sure what "as seperate attacks" means. Does it mean you can TWF with 1 pistol or? But yeah, the last part of the sentence kind of ruins it. They were pretty crazy after all.


    Paladin also has a gunslinger archetype, although since you're already a gunslinger I don't think it's that useful, but you could still go Paladin for support and whatnot.

    Finally, taking into consideration your character background, I also wholeheartedly suggest you go full bard on the other end of your gestalt. Sure, goblins don't go with charisma, but since you're picking goblin for the fluff, you could always ask your DM is you could get a +2 to cha 'cause you were born an especially handsome goblin(Not sure how that could happen but still) and get the GS archetype that scales with Cha. Even with the -2 to Cha you could still be relevant and having fun if you dump another stat a tad more so you could at least get Cha 16. Bard's Inspire Courage can be pretty crazy with a banner of the forgotten king(iirc) giving +5 or 4 to attack and damage rolls to everyone(including yourself) at your current level. Bard is a class that you really have to dig in order to have fun with it though.
    Full casters are off the table, and besides the point not really my intentions for the character. Partial casters are questionable but potentially acceptable, with divine preferable to arcane where possible. Rules of the game are, gunslinger or swashbuckler or inquisitor on one entire side of the gestalt; I'm aware that it's not super-optimal, but straight gunslinger on one side is what I'm going with from what's available.

    If I'm taking rogue, it's probably not for the damage; SA would be nice if I could get it on every attack, but if not, it'll be a 1/combat thing I do when I snipe at the start, and the rest of the time, Rogue will be for the skill points, the skill unlocks, and the non-SA-focused Rogue Talents.

    Paladin...nah, not unless I could find a good Wis archetype for it. But Bard...I do like bards...and this character's kinda out there, even with crap Cha. If I can find a Wis archetype for it, that sounds great, but if not...maybe then anyway, and I'll work around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    The two barreled "separate attack" part is for single shots. Like when your bab hits +6. You load both barrels, fire one barrel for your +6 and the other for your +1 attack. No need to reload in-between.
    In a "guns everywhere" setting, double barrels aren't needed/worth it.

    I always kind of like the idea of a monk//gunslinger. Runs off of DEX and WIS, boosts Will save, gives you a solid non-ranged attack option. And there are plenty of archetypes to work with.
    Monk...could be interesting. Solid melee'ing, a better Will save, Wis to unarmored AC in a setting where armor isn't super-effective anyway...still kinda weird, though. Plus, Unchained Monk is supposedly a lot better, but it doesn't give me the Will save; is it worth taking regular Monk, knowing that Gunslinger is covering the BAB? Hrm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    Perhaps base vigilante is a better option, but it seemed like some of the bonuses the gunmaster gets might stack.

    but if you are interested in playing a low tech punisher, it seems pretty good.

    also you might consider alchemist, grenadier.. seems pretty neato since they can enhance ammunition with alchemical liquids and powder.
    Alchemist...that could be interesting. Hillbilly's got a bit of mad scientist in him, brewing up weird things with whatever he could throw into a pot...hrm...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    I always kind of like the idea of a monk//gunslinger. Runs off of DEX and WIS, boosts Will save, gives you a solid non-ranged attack option. And there are plenty of archetypes to work with.
    Oooh that sounds fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blyte View Post
    also you might consider alchemist, grenadier.. seems pretty neato since they can enhance ammunition with alchemical liquids and powder
    Vivisectionist might be better since you can use sneak attack on your normal gun attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogsy View Post
    Finally, taking into consideration your character background, I also wholeheartedly suggest you go full bard on the other end of your gestalt. Sure, goblins don't go with charisma, but since you're picking goblin for the fluff, you could always ask your DM is you could get a +2 to cha 'cause you were born an especially handsome goblin(Not sure how that could happen but still) and get the GS archetype that scales with Cha. Even with the -2 to Cha you could still be relevant and having fun if you dump another stat a tad more so you could at least get Cha 16. Bard's Inspire Courage can be pretty crazy with a banner of the forgotten king(iirc) giving +5 or 4 to attack and damage rolls to everyone(including yourself) at your current level. Bard is a class that you really have to dig in order to have fun with it though.
    I fully support this idea. Go Archaelogist and be goblin Indiana Jones :D
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post

    But Bard...I do like bards...and this character's kinda out there, even with crap Cha. If I can find a Wis archetype for it, that sounds great, but if not...maybe then anyway, and I'll work around it.

    Monk...could be interesting. Solid melee'ing, a better Will save, Wis to unarmored AC in a setting where armor isn't super-effective anyway...still kinda weird, though. Plus, Unchained Monk is supposedly a lot better, but it doesn't give me the Will save; is it worth taking regular Monk, knowing that Gunslinger is covering the BAB? Hrm...


    I don't remember a Wis Bard archetype, but since you aren't going for optimization anyway, it could work even with crap cha. There are a couple of archetypes like Investigator where you could ask your DM to make it scale with wis though, if he's lenient. As for Monk, I was going to suggest it, since you'll be able to be a menace both in melee and in range and be pretty much unhittable with his wis to ac that also goes to touch. There is an archetype that allows you to FoB with guns too, iirc. I prefer unchained monk's FoB and ki powers, otherwise vanilla monk is fine as well. You could pick style feats and whatnot. There is an archetype that allows you to attack(or trip/bullrush) people when they hit you in melee, or make an enemy hit their ally if you're flanked. With crane style you could have huge AC bonuses(fighting defensively gives a dodge bonus iirc so that again goes to touch) and due to targetting touch yourself you wouldn't mind the -2. People generally hate a lot on the monk class but I've found it can do more damage than the fighter, be tankier(in ac) than the fighter(when considering touch AC and bracers of armor) and he's not really mad if you don't focus on dex. I mean, I personally think a STR 14 monk can do just fine due to dragon style->ferocity and only pick up an enhancement bonus on Str later on the game, but whatever. The only thing it lacks in compared to fighter is feat versatility, but you can mitigate lots of that due to master of many styles and style feats. It even gets teleportation at 12 or 8 so you don't even miss on full attacks with the dimensional agility chain.

    I'm just ranting by now though, as you don't even care about strength. I don't think hillbilly goes with monk though, especially considering their alignment restriction. But maybe your DM isn't a guy who thinks unnecessary alignment restrictions are actually necessary, so that's cool. But I really don't get why people **** on the monk so much. In 3.5, I kinda get it, but in PF he's pretty fine both in combat and what he can do out of it if you pick the right options for what you're looking for.

    brotip: Always go qinggong.

    Other than that, since you don't really care about spells, a bard can be awesome without tons of cha with certain archetypes like archaeologist(already suggested). Just pick an archetype with awesome class features that don't scale with cha. Also, maybe there's a trait that allows you to swap cha for wis or int on a certain skill, so you could still be an awesome party face with versatile performance. Bardic performances also don't scale with cha so yay for that. Just pick up tons of buffs and utility spells and you're set.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Vivisectionist might be better since you can use sneak attack on your normal gun attacks.
    hidden strike + sneak would stack, for some good damage, but it can be difficult to consistently sneak with a gun, unless you are invisible or able to see through a smoke bomb with shenanigans.

    oops it's late, forgot this is gunslinger gestalt! haha
    Last edited by Blyte; 2016-12-08 at 10:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogsy View Post
    I don't remember a Wis Bard archetype, but since you aren't going for optimization anyway, it could work even with crap cha. There are a couple of archetypes like Investigator where you could ask your DM to make it scale with wis though, if he's lenient. As for Monk, I was going to suggest it, since you'll be able to be a menace both in melee and in range and be pretty much unhittable with his wis to ac that also goes to touch. There is an archetype that allows you to FoB with guns too, iirc. I prefer unchained monk's FoB and ki powers, otherwise vanilla monk is fine as well. You could pick style feats and whatnot. There is an archetype that allows you to attack(or trip/bullrush) people when they hit you in melee, or make an enemy hit their ally if you're flanked. With crane style you could have huge AC bonuses(fighting defensively gives a dodge bonus iirc so that again goes to touch) and due to targetting touch yourself you wouldn't mind the -2. People generally hate a lot on the monk class but I've found it can do more damage than the fighter, be tankier(in ac) than the fighter(when considering touch AC and bracers of armor) and he's not really mad if you don't focus on dex. I mean, I personally think a STR 14 monk can do just fine due to dragon style->ferocity and only pick up an enhancement bonus on Str later on the game, but whatever. The only thing it lacks in compared to fighter is feat versatility, but you can mitigate lots of that due to master of many styles and style feats. It even gets teleportation at 12 or 8 so you don't even miss on full attacks with the dimensional agility chain.

    I'm just ranting by now though, as you don't even care about strength. I don't think hillbilly goes with monk though, especially considering their alignment restriction. But maybe your DM isn't a guy who thinks unnecessary alignment restrictions are actually necessary, so that's cool. But I really don't get why people **** on the monk so much. In 3.5, I kinda get it, but in PF he's pretty fine both in combat and what he can do out of it if you pick the right options for what you're looking for.

    brotip: Always go qinggong.

    Other than that, since you don't really care about spells, a bard can be awesome without tons of cha with certain archetypes like archaeologist(already suggested). Just pick an archetype with awesome class features that don't scale with cha. Also, maybe there's a trait that allows you to swap cha for wis or int on a certain skill, so you could still be an awesome party face with versatile performance. Bardic performances also don't scale with cha so yay for that. Just pick up tons of buffs and utility spells and you're set.
    Optimization is still important, it's just not the main point. If I didn't care about it at all, I'd just be making a Gunslinger//Rogue and not worrying about how it's basically just boosting my skills. Refusing to multiclass out of gunslinger when staying in it is a requirement of the game isn't really me not caring about char-op, it's me making a character that fits the game it's being made for; same thing with the rejection of full casters (it's part of keeping the game "gritty").

    Yes, yes, Str monk, I too have read Treantmonk's guide; monk is still MAD when focusing on Str, just not as MAD as they were when Dex was in the mix as well, but it's not much worse than most melee'ers at that point. As for the alignment restriction, Lawful's not ideal, although Martial Artist gets around that well enough for my purposes, and regular monk (well, qinggong, because there's literally no reason not to take it) can be fine fluff-wise if I focus on the religious angle.

    Archaeologist Bard looks interesting, particularly if I can get my DM to let me base things off of Wisdom instead of Cha. And if not, it's decent anyway.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Archaeologist Bard looks interesting, particularly if I can get my DM to let me base things off of Wisdom instead of Cha. And if not, it's decent anyway.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Gunslinger has a few good options to gestalt with:

    Inquisitor is my favourite pick for it. Especially the Heretic archetype. It complements the Gunslinger quite nicely afaik. Judgements can be used for more defensive options and generally the spells and other abilities make you basically a Judge Dredd Street Judge.
    In the same way as Inquisitor a Warpriest with the right Blessings can be played similar. Even if you play him differently he will be awesome due to a better spell list but loses on some skill points. But you get to play as a "Gunpriest".
    Eldritch Archer whilst MAD makes dealing Damage far easier. Nothing says "I hate you" more than an Intensified Shocking Grasp Bullet.
    Alchemist or Investigator are both Int-focused classes (as is the Eldritch Archer) but if Alchemist is not allowed the Investigator still brings extracts and general Alchemical usefulness to the table... sadly at least afaik the Investigator can't get the Bombs class feature...
    Bards are also good options, especially for a Mysterious Stranger.
    Monk is another option, although I think the chained Monk is better suited for gestalting instead of the unchained Monk in this case. Get a big Pistol, a red cloak, disarming shot and you can be Vash the Stampede or a "Cleric" from Equilibrium.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    What's wrong with Mysterious Stranger?
    I dunno, maybe the fact that it's terrible? (Until level 11 anyways)

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    What's wrong with Mysterious Stranger?
    Cha-based, when Goblin is pretty integral to the character concept. Making it work could happen, but it would be stretching my point-buy thinner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzman View Post
    Gunslinger has a few good options to gestalt with:

    Inquisitor is my favourite pick for it. Especially the Heretic archetype. It complements the Gunslinger quite nicely afaik. Judgements can be used for more defensive options and generally the spells and other abilities make you basically a Judge Dredd Street Judge.
    In the same way as Inquisitor a Warpriest with the right Blessings can be played similar. Even if you play him differently he will be awesome due to a better spell list but loses on some skill points. But you get to play as a "Gunpriest".
    Eldritch Archer whilst MAD makes dealing Damage far easier. Nothing says "I hate you" more than an Intensified Shocking Grasp Bullet.
    Alchemist or Investigator are both Int-focused classes (as is the Eldritch Archer) but if Alchemist is not allowed the Investigator still brings extracts and general Alchemical usefulness to the table... sadly at least afaik the Investigator can't get the Bombs class feature...
    Bards are also good options, especially for a Mysterious Stranger.
    Monk is another option, although I think the chained Monk is better suited for gestalting instead of the unchained Monk in this case. Get a big Pistol, a red cloak, disarming shot and you can be Vash the Stampede or a "Cleric" from Equilibrium.
    Inquisitor looks cooler the more I look at it, I'll probably go with that if the DM isn't cool with a Wisdom Bard.


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Purely from a mechanical point of view..

    The gunslinger already has d10 HD, full BAB, and good Fort/Ref.
    You're missing strong Will saves and 'only' have 4 skills per level.

    Anything that adds full Will save and gives more skill points will get you the basics.

    Since the class makes use of Wisdom, I'd personally look at something that has a strong Will save and adds buffs of some sort.
    If the Gunslinger core is what you're going for you can multiclass a lot, on the other side.
    If you would prefer to have full casting, in addition to the guns, like a techno-wizard build of some sort, then full caster progression is definitely stronger than mix and match classes.

    I could see Sorcerer 3 (with Magical Knack) for Mage Armor (all adventuring day) and Shield (first three fights of a day), assuming you can spare the attribute points for a CHA of 11.
    Then go with Monk 2+ for Evasion and WIS to AC.
    That is Dex + Wis to AC, with unarmored +4 AC (armor bonus) and +4 AC (shield bonus), which would make your touch AC pretty decent.
    If you go that route, Inquisitor 2 adds WIS to initiative along with DEX, and adds a few other perks.

    Going Cleric, Wizard or Psion, all the way on the other side... drastically changes the feel from a Gunslinger, but mechanically speaking any can add a string of buffs (and other options).
    And they all have strong Will save and full casting progression.
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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    I don't think my option is all that optimal, but it could be fun.

    Urban Barbarian.
    Basically it would up your HD, allow you to rage and gain some bonus dexterity, and give you rage powers, which in my opinion are usually rather great. Heck if you are worried about saves, there is the superstitious rage power which makes you rather hard to hit with any magic (pretty much the only reason for will saves) and you can move up to eater of magic to just consume anything you fail a save against.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ualaa View Post
    Purely from a mechanical point of view..

    The gunslinger already has d10 HD, full BAB, and good Fort/Ref.
    You're missing strong Will saves and 'only' have 4 skills per level.

    Anything that adds full Will save and gives more skill points will get you the basics.

    Since the class makes use of Wisdom, I'd personally look at something that has a strong Will save and adds buffs of some sort.
    If the Gunslinger core is what you're going for you can multiclass a lot, on the other side.
    If you would prefer to have full casting, in addition to the guns, like a techno-wizard build of some sort, then full caster progression is definitely stronger than mix and match classes.

    I could see Sorcerer 3 (with Magical Knack) for Mage Armor (all adventuring day) and Shield (first three fights of a day), assuming you can spare the attribute points for a CHA of 11.
    Then go with Monk 2+ for Evasion and WIS to AC.
    That is Dex + Wis to AC, with unarmored +4 AC (armor bonus) and +4 AC (shield bonus), which would make your touch AC pretty decent.
    If you go that route, Inquisitor 2 adds WIS to initiative along with DEX, and adds a few other perks.

    Going Cleric, Wizard or Psion, all the way on the other side... drastically changes the feel from a Gunslinger, but mechanically speaking any can add a string of buffs (and other options).
    And they all have strong Will save and full casting progression.
    Full casting is off the table for this game, to preserve the "Wild West grittiness"; only one person is allowed to go full caster, there's already somebody doing that, and magic is being screwed with anyway so it's not gonna be super-reliable outside of buffs and healing. Inquisitor, with its Wis to Init/Knowledges, Wis-based casting, and tons of skills, is looking better the more I look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco_Lord View Post
    I don't think my option is all that optimal, but it could be fun.

    Urban Barbarian.
    Basically it would up your HD, allow you to rage and gain some bonus dexterity, and give you rage powers, which in my opinion are usually rather great. Heck if you are worried about saves, there is the superstitious rage power which makes you rather hard to hit with any magic (pretty much the only reason for will saves) and you can move up to eater of magic to just consume anything you fail a save against.
    Urban Barbarian?

    ...could be worth checking out. There's some interesting rage powers out there...


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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    I refer you to this post, or this thread, or just to sum it up "Wizard Spellslinger 1/Magus Eldritch Archer X".
    Combine your gunnery with spells by casting a spell while making full-attacks with your gun, then deliver the effects of those spells with your bullets while boosting their DC.

    Since this campaign has advanced firearms, you don't even have to worry about reload issues - just go with your rifle, make it your arcane gun/bonded object, and you're good to go.

    Granted, this may or may not fit with what you had in mind for your character, background-wise.
    Do note that you could also go Spellslinger 1/some other casting class X. Arcane Gun works with any spells you cast. Cleric, Druid, Hunter and Warpriest all work just fine
    However, that won't give you "fire full-round attack while also spellcasting, with an extra attack from spellstrike". For that, you need at least 6 levels of Magus and the Broad Study Arcana.

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    Default Re: Gestalt Gunslinger//? (Seeking Advice/Second Opinions)

    If you're mixing and matching...

    A few sorcerer levels, for a decent armor bonus and shield bonus via Mage Armor & Shield, only need a CHA of 11 and three levels (plus the trait Magical Knack) to have 3x Shield (first three combats) and Mage Armor for 15+ hours of the day.

    The monk levels would combine for WIS to AC. Wisdom is the stat for your Grit, so it is probably decent. Combining Dex and Wis (both as dodge bonuses), get you a better set of odds for the gun fight showdown since your touch AC is a lot higher that way.
    For non-touch AC, the Sorcerer levels add 8 more AC.

    The Inquisitor I liked, because you would be quick on the draw. That is also Wisdom based.

    These are all high Will save classes, for the weak save.
    Unfortunately, not 6/8 skill point per level classes, but four isn't bad.
    ~ Ualaa

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