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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    Found this through Facebook last night and while I haven't gone over it in detail yet, it sounds like an interesting idea for a class. Here's the link:

    https://dungeonmusings.wordpress.com...geons-dragons/

    Is the class viable? Is it broken or underpowered? What are poeple's thoughts on it?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    I can't say as to balance, but why does it have to be a new class? I can see subclasses for at least 2 classes based upon gun usage.

    Fighter: Let's have a Musketeer archetype. I personally wouldn't want them firing too fast, but this is a fantasy game so why don't we let the player decide! Give the archetype a pool of superiority points and a number of deeds to choose from, from the basic increased damage and accuracy to the ability to fire a musket/rifle 2+ times a turn because you are just that good at reloading.

    Fighter: Outrider now. Let's give him a mount and some sort of bonus when fighting from it (+2 AC?), and then their first archetype ability is a big one: the Outrider can draw and fire a pistol in a single attack. I can see dropping the mount and just focusing on fighting with a bunch of pistols to be honest. Not as big a deal before level 5, but at level 20 he can launch off 4 pistol shots a turn for free (8 with action surge), while others have to spend time reloading or drawing.

    Paladin: I can see a 'mysterious gunman/guardian angel' oath, not sure what to call it or what the abilities would be though.

    Ranger: a variation of Hunter modified for use with firearms would sorely be needed, although firearms work alright for the Beastmaster ranger.

    And because it's related:

    Rogue: for the name, how about 'Outlaw'. The stranger who rolls into town and is fast on the draw, but nothing specifically to do with firearms.
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

    RIP Laser-Snail, may you live on in our hearts forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    Thoughts:

    Its a bit fanboy-ish, needs a little balancing. I tried to review it based on what I felt a Western Gunslinger would be able to do. Also, the template has too many abilities; maybe 2-3 should be removed.

    - Drop the hit die to a d8
    - Drop Athletics as a class skill; maybe add survival.
    - Drop Constitution as a saving throw, and go either with Wisdom or Chrisma
    - Grit points should scale at a slower rate; maybe start with 2 and end at 10, or possibly be comparable to Sorcerery points
    - Gunslinger Dodge should probably only work against ranged combat attacks, imo, or be worth 2 Grit points
    - Quick Draw is REALLY good: I would temper it down a bit and say that you can make a single ranged attack (with no movement or bonus action) during a surprise round. Fits the theme better.
    - Utility Shot is a good ability; but it should probably cost a grit point.
    - Extra attack should probably not go up to 3 at 11th level - you really should not rival a fighter for attack output.
    - Dead Shot is way, way OP. Basically, it makes your attacks a crit cannon, making all attacks crit and hit for a single grit point. Only able to do it 7 times at level 7 before running out of Grit! There is literally no reason to ever use grit for anything else. Instead, it should require a bonus action to set up (aiming) and then an action to fire with advantage to deal double damage, costing 2 Grit.
    - Evasive looks good
    - Startling Shot looks good
    - Debilitating Shot should be 2 Grit, but it might be fine as it is.
    - Menacing Shot looks good
    - Bullseye looks good - and is a good match-up for the character. The Torso shot might be better as 'the next attack to roll a natural 19 is a critical hit', but is probably fine.
    - Death Shot should be AT LEAST 5 Grit, or gone altogether. There is no way you should be able to do it 15 times in a day if you so choose.
    - Cheat Death is balanced, but I don't know if it is thematic.
    - True Grit is overkill - it should be minimum 1 Grit. It might be balanced if the Grit costs were re-worked and the total Grit point maximum was much, much less.

    I'm still reading...
    My Philosophies:
    Encounter Design Philosophy
    Enemy Design Philosophy
    My Incomplete Complete 5e Character Creation Rework

    Please leave feedback or PM with thoughts. I'm always trying to refine my approach.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    I'm going to write this as I go so it won't be super organized, but here we go.

    Grit Points: Why are the inspiration mechanics showing up here? There's already a system for this which is used by all characters.
    Gunslinger Dodge: Very strong. Compared to Monk's dodge, you get it at an earlier level, it uses a more plentiful resource (at least at later levels), it burns your reaction instead of bonus action (on a ranged class who won't be using AoOs of all things) AND you don't have to use it before the attack, leading to more conserved resources.
    Pistol Whip: Gain a 1d10 finesse weapon. Somehow an improvised attack is now better than the purpose built Rapier.
    Quick Draw: Advantage on initiative on a Dex-based class is huge.
    Utility Shot: This is trying to codify a playstyle into a rule. Often seen in badly made homebrew where the player wants to force the DM to use their preferred version of the "rule of cool".
    Dead Shot: Breaks rules and/or creates a lot of interaction headaches without more clarification. What if the target reacts by casting Shield? Or Cutting Words? What if any of the abilities that normally interact with a single or multiple attacks is used with this anomaly?
    Evade: Sooner than a ranger, later than a rogue.
    Startling Shot: Stupid strong. Full advantage for everyone no matter how they like to attack, and it's worded so that you'll never waste your shot. Stuff like this is why the DMG warns about giving out easy advantage.
    Debilitating Shot: Not broken per se, but tying the DC to the main attack stat on a non-full-caster is probably a bad idea.
    Menacing Shot: It's the fear spell, but in a 30' radius instead of a cone, and on a resource discount.
    Bulleye: Eh, is okay. Some of the effects are semi-redundant with earlier abilities. Given how stupid strong the other uses for Grit points are, I doubt it would see much use.
    Death Shot: Speaking of IDIOTICALLY STRONG, how'd you like to be able to cast Power Word: Kill 20 times PER SHORT REST? Even if they don't die, it's an auto-crit, so you'll get them next time. With 3 attacks, this means nearly everything dies in the opening salvo.
    Stun Shot: Oh look, it's the Monk's Stun ability, only usable at range, tied to a better stat and uses a resource you have way more of. If it wasn't for getting Death Shot at the same time, this would be the go-to.
    Cheat Death Yeah okay. This is the first time I think where the class has gotten an arguably weaker version of someone else's ability.


    And I'm not even going to get into the subclasses. This thing is super OP and would shame any other martial class to a unpleasant degree.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ji6's Avatar

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    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard
    Text
    My opinion exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by GWJ_DanyBoy View Post
    Text
    Pretty good assessment in my opinion. Without changing any other features, I would actually argue a d2 coin flip for hit dice just because of how insanely strong it is :P

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    Okay, gone off to homebrew a couple of gunslinger Fighter subclasses, you can find them through this finely crafted link that I have made for you right here.

    Would probably be better to keep discussion of them to the homebrew thread, being honest.
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

    RIP Laser-Snail, may you live on in our hearts forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Sep 2010
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    New York
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    Default Re: Gun-weilders in 5e (link included...)

    Not sure if you're familiar with Critical Role or not, but here's the link to the build Matt Mercer made for the character Percy in the show. (same guy responsible for the Witch Hunter/Blood Hunter)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/82o72v47dd...05E.docx?dl=0#

    Seems to take what you listed and refine it down a bit.

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