Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

[Kashyyyk]

Q81

Duergar Trooper has a polymorph ability that increases his size to Large. Dwarf PC that can reduce his forced movement by one square is adjacent at the time. Is the dwarf forced to move 1 square as the Duergar enlarges? Or does this allow/force the Duergar to move away from the Dwarf by a square as he enlarges? And what if there are no other locations for the Large creature to appear, what takes precedent?

Thanks!

[Highfeather]

Q81

Duergar Trooper has a polymorph ability that increases his size to Large. Dwarf PC that can reduce his forced movement by one square is adjacent at the time. Is the dwarf forced to move 1 square as the Duergar enlarges? Or does this allow/force the Duergar to move away from the Dwarf by a square as he enlarges? And what if there are no other locations for the Large creature to appear, what takes precedent?

Thanks!

A81

I wouldn't call this one clear-cut, but here's my take.

I presume the Duergar has something in the Polymorph ability that says that it can push other creatures. If not, then it's probably screwed either way.
If it gets a push, it's probably because of the Polymorph rules, which state that: "If a polymorph effect would make a creature too large to fit in the available space, the effect fails against the creature, but it is stunned (save ends)."
Therefore, the push is meant to clear away space so the Polymorph won't fail and cause the Duergar to be stunned, unless the corridors you're fighting in are too tiny (and you shouldn't use those monsters there for obvious reasons). It's a failsafe.

However, the Dwarf in this situation is making the failsafe itself fail, but only under very specific circumstances. It's highly unlikely that the Duergar cannot go from a 1x1x1 creature to a 2x2x2 creature without including the Dwarf in the area he's going to occupy. That's pretty much only going to happen when the Duergar is boxed in... by other Dwarfs that it cannot push aside.

So in the very rare case of the Duergar being surrounded by terrain or non-allied Dwarfs, I'd applaud the ridiculous setup and say the general polymorph rules kick in with a "no you don't" leading to a save ends stun on the Duergar. In all other cases, I'd say it'll expand into a 2x2x2 square area wherever it fits, which shouldn't be too difficult.

[Gwic]

Q82a: Other than the Crusader's Weapon (lvl 9+) and Unforgettable Cudgel (8+), (and maybe Disrupting Weapon? see below) are there any other weapons that can be used as holy symbols by clerics in the heroic tier?

Q82b: What is the source for a Disrupting Weapon? I've seen several sources mention them, sometimes citing the Adventurer's Vault and saying it's a level 8+ item, but I don't see them listed in that book or any of the others I have. Does anyone know what source actually has them?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...rupting+weapon

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...rupting+weapon

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...ousOctahedron)

[ve4grm]

A82a - I can find:

Scepter of Bane (4+, Dragon 383)
Rose Scythe of Chauntea (4+, Dragon 412)
Serpentine Knife of Zannad (5+, Book of Vile Darkness)
Weapon of Evil Undone (10+, AV2)

and for +3 weapons and above:
Bradaman's Weapon (13+, AV2)
Moonbow (13+, Dragon 386)
Avandra's Whisper (17+, AV)
Lion's Heart Hammer (17+, AV2)
Blade of Bahamut (19+, AV)
Moradin's Weapon (19+, AV)
Holy Avenger (25+, PHB)



A82b - it looks like it's from the Dragon Magazine Annual? Mordenkainen's Emporium has a "Weapon of Disruption" which is a different enchantment, despite the similar name.

[masteraleph]

A82 Supplemental

ve4grm has a pretty good set of answers. In addition:

Disrupting Weapon is indeed in Dragon Magazine Annual.

Without gaining an implement via multiclassing or theme, there are several deity specific feats to allow weapons to be used as implements for divine powers (but they aren't holy symbols):

Symbol of the Sonnlinor (Dragon 385, must worship Moradin) gives proficiency in all military hammers, picks, and axes, and allows those weapon types as implements for divine powers.

Moonbow Dedicate (Dragon 386, must worship Sehanine) gives shortbow proficiency, shortbows as implements for divine and arcane powers, and a +1/2/3 feat bonus to damage with shortbows.

[MwaO]

Q82a: Other than the Crusader's Weapon (lvl 9+) and Unforgettable Cudgel (8+), (and maybe Disrupting Weapon? see below) are there any other weapons that can be used as holy symbols by clerics in the heroic tier?

A82: I'd just note in addition, you can multi-class into a number of classes that give a much wider range of potential implements — Invoker for Staff, Swordmage for any light/heavy blade. Sorcerer for Staff or Dagger as examples.

[Yakk]

A82: I'd just note in addition, you can multi-class into a number of classes that give a much wider range of potential implements — Invoker for Staff, Swordmage for any light/heavy blade. Sorcerer for Staff or Dagger as examples.

(In fact, if you MC any arcane class, then get Arcane Implement Proficiency for any arcane implement group, including light blades, heavy blades, staffs).

[Gwic]

(In fact, if you MC any arcane class, then get Arcane Implement Proficiency for any arcane implement group, including light blades, heavy blades, staffs).

Q82c: Are you saying that if a Dwarf Cleric w/ Dwarven Weapon Training (prof. with axes & hammers and +2 damage with them) multiclasses into any arcane class, e.g. bard, and takes Arcane Implement Proficiency, they could use a Khopesh (axe + heavy blade) as an implement for Cleric powers with the +2 damage bonus?

(By the way, thanks to everyone (ve4grm, masteraleph, MwaO, Yakk) for the detailed answers!)

EDIT: It appears not, since "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers." So only for arcane powers.

[ve4grm]

Q82c: Are you saying that if a Dwarf Cleric w/ Dwarven Weapon Training (prof. with axes & hammers and +2 damage with them) multiclasses into any arcane class, e.g. bard, and takes Arcane Implement Proficiency, they could use a Khopesh (axe + heavy blade) as an implement for Cleric powers with the +2 damage bonus?

(By the way, thanks to everyone (ve4grm, masteraleph, MwaO, Yakk) for the detailed answers!)

EDIT: It appears not, since "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers." So only for arcane powers.

A82c: The feat doesn't specify that it has to be a weapon attack, so yes. As long as you take DWT and AIP (Heavy Blades), you're golden.

EDIT: You have to have an arcane class first, to take AIP. So you need a multiclass feat or something, but then it works.

[ve4grm]

EDIT: It appears not, since "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers." So only for arcane powers.

That apparently was errata'd out with the rules compendium (I think?), so you can now use any implement you are proficient with with any power. This was done so that a Cleric/Wizard or Infoker|Wizard/Shaman wouldn't need to carry two/three implements.

While I can't find the exact quote from the book, see here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...35#post5483735

[masteraleph]

Q82c: Are you saying that if a Dwarf Cleric w/ Dwarven Weapon Training (prof. with axes & hammers and +2 damage with them) multiclasses into any arcane class, e.g. bard, and takes Arcane Implement Proficiency, they could use a Khopesh (axe + heavy blade) as an implement for Cleric powers with the +2 damage bonus?

(By the way, thanks to everyone (ve4grm, masteraleph, MwaO, Yakk) for the detailed answers!)

EDIT: It appears not, since "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers." So only for arcane powers.

That was errataed out at some point- it's on page 137 of the last released errata/updates pdf. Errata and the Customer Service FAQ can be found at this site on the Wizards page.

[masteraleph]

Q83

The Hunter (Ranger)'s Rapid Shot at will, which is poachable by anyone with a level 1 Ranger At Will attack via the Archery Mastery feat, states the following:

You make a ranged basic attack with a weapon against each creature in or adjacent to a square within the attack's range. You take a -2 penalty to the attack rolls.

Q83A

I've always overlooked the end of the first sentence, figuring that it was an RBA against each creature in or adjacent to a target (sort of a Burst 1, but all ranged attacks). But rereading it, it seems like that may not be the case, and that it would actually target everyone within the range of your RBA +1. Is that correct?

Q83B

Does everyone attacked via Rapid Shot have to be attacked with the same RBA? For example, could an Elementalist with a Dagger as their implement make the normal thrown weapon RBA against allies, likely missing because their Dex is probably low, and use Elemental Bolt against enemies? I'm aware of War Wizard's Expertise and War Wizardry, but this would be a no-resources-required method of doing the same thing.

[dariathalon]

A83A

Your original reading was closer to correct. Choose a square within range of your weapon. Then make a ranged basic attack against every target in or adjacent to that square with your weapon. The big difference between your original reading and this one, is there does not need to be a target in the central square.

I could see an alternative reading that would allow a rba against enemies within range+1 of the weapon (not -1), but that seems silly. Given that the ability could be understood either way, I'd go with the first one which makes more sense though.

A83BA

I don't see anywhere saying all attacks must be made with the same weapon, but it does say these must be weapon attacks. So a sorcerer's spells wouldn't count. But I suppose attacking some people with a bow and others with a thrown knife might be do-able. If that were the case, I'd limit the range of the power to the shorter range between any weapons being used though. There's also a possibility of needing something like quickdraw to allow changing weapons mid-attack. I don't know that off the top of my head, and I don't feel like digging in far enough to find that detail when I doubt anyone would really want to do it anyway.

[masteraleph]

A83BA

I don't see anywhere saying all attacks must be made with the same weapon, but it does say these must be weapon attacks.

This piece is incorrect- they must be attacks with a weapon, but they do not need to be Weapon Attacks. Same reason Rebounding Weapon and Weapon of Speed both work with sorcerer attacks, or (more explicitly) why Siberys Shard of the Mage works at all.

[Highfeather]

A83A Rapid Shot is a poorly worded power, and the reading you're proposing is a valid one. In the case of base Elemental Bolt, it just parses 'is this creature in or adjacent to a square within 10 squares; if yes - make an RBA against it'. And because the answer to that is going to be 'yes' for creatures up to 11 squares away, you could get an RBA against each single one. There's nothing in the power that tell you to pick or define a square to count from.

That said, this goes archived with stuff like Death's Brink Armor under the 'this reading will not fly at any serious table' folder.

A83B Similarly, the power doesn't state that you have to use the same ranged basic attack against every target. Let's look at some of the 'Making an Attack' guidelines in RC214.
The first one is 'Choose an attack power, keeping in mind the rules for its type'. The final, sixth, one is 'If an attack power has more than one target, repeat steps 3 through 5 for each of them'.

Since Rapid Shot is not a burst, but instead a series of ranged attacks, every single RBA is a seperate attack. Moreover, Rapid Shot never explicitly defines 'targets' in the power - the RBA you're using does. (Though this creates more awkwardness with PoS Divine Bolts...) This means that you're never using an attack that has multiple targets, and such the sixth stage of making an attack is never reached. Therefore, the first step is never skipped and happens for every seperate RBA. Rapid Shot restricts our choices to RBA powers, so we can pick from all RBA powers we have, which can then differ with each attack.

I'd file this one under 'ETV'. Having the attack be pseudo-friendly isn't that big of a deal, but I can see many DMs ruling against it considering the attack penalty hints at the attack not being accurately aimed to begin with. Moreover, this could change the "targeting" from Rapid Shot as the power's range might change, which also doesn't have a particularly clear answer anyway.

...The power creates a giant mess anyhow. I wouldn't even say the intent is clear in case B - if it's all with the same weapon, you could still not draw ammo or run out of ammo (for crossbow/bow RBAs, or non-magical thrown weapon RBAs) at which point you could not attack your allies. And which of the RBAs goes off first anyhow?!

[Dimers]

The question has been answered, of course, but I'd like to add that the more expansive interpretation would also force you to attack yourself. You're definitely a creature in or adjacent to a square within range.

[masteraleph]

Q84Are there any items that a fey beast companion, from Fey Beast Tamer, can wear?

[tiornys]

A84: A fey beast companion can wear any of the small selection of companion slot items (Companion category in the compendium/builder, or look them up in Adventurer's Vault pp. 122-3).

[darkbard]

Q85: Paragon of Victory's E11, Fanatic Energy, says, "You use an at-will cleric power" as a Minor action. Must this power be an AW already associated with your build, or does this open up the option of choosing whatever AW power suits the present situation?

[masteraleph]

Q85: Paragon of Victory's E11, Fanatic Energy, says, "You use an at-will cleric power" as a Minor action. Must this power be an AW already associated with your build, or does this open up the option of choosing whatever AW power suits the present situation?

It does not say that it gives you access to any cleric power, so it doesn't.

[darkbard]

Makes sense. I had never considered that it might until I looked at the very general nature of the language. But your observation about not granting access makes sense.

[stk3702]

I can't go anymore to the DND Insider Character Builder 4E. Do you have the same problem as me ?

[darkbard]

I can't go anymore to the DND Insider Character Builder 4E. Do you have the same problem as me ?

It's been down since yesterday. I and a few others submitted a work ticket, and WotC has posted on social media that they are aware of & working to resolve the situation. Hopefully it will be up & running tomorrow...

[masteraleph]

Q86: Can a sorcerer king warlock expend their fell might on a power that doesn’t specify it to no effect? (Alternative: can a warlock|psion with Psionic Scorn who has not expended their fell might regain a power point when a cursed enemy drops to 0hp?)

[Dimers]

A 86

My reading says, yes, you can expend fell might when you use ANY power (doesn't even have to be warlock). And despite plenty of opportunity, there's no language in the pact description or Psionic Scorn that would prevent you from regaining a psi point even if you already have fell might charged.

[theMycon]

Q87:
I'm a Bard with Staggering Note (push an enemy 3, Ally can MBA at any point before during or after). My party has an Avenger with Power of Skill (Overwhelming Strike as an MBA, on hit he can shift 1 then slide target into his old space).

What happens when his forced movement interrupts my forced movement?

[MwaO]

Q87:
I'm a Bard with Staggering Note (push an enemy 3, Ally can MBA at any point before during or after). My party has an Avenger with Power of Skill (Overwhelming Strike as an MBA, on hit he can shift 1 then slide target into his old space).

What happens when his forced movement interrupts my forced movement?

Exactly what that sentence describes — he hits the target, shifts+slides, then you continue to push him if you want to do so.

You don't have to do the whole push unless that's what you want.

[Dimers]

I guess sometimes it might matter what direction the push continues in, but I'm aware of no rule regarding how to determine the edge cases. Say your Staggering Note target is exactly southeast of you, so you can legally push SW, S, SE, E or NE. Then the avenger's Overwhelming Strike moves the target north. Can you push southwest because that was valid when the push started? Or are you now limited to SE / E / NE? I honestly don't know.

[Marcloure]

When you push a creature, each square you move it must place it farther away from you.

Whether something interacts with the push middle way or not, that rule must apply for each and every square. If you kick someone North, and for some reason it is teleported to your adjacent South, the target must still go away from you during the push (now that is S, SE, or SW).

[Yakk]

The rules for push are simple.

Every square pushed must be adjacent to, and further away than the immediately previous square the pushed character is pushed from.

The rules for pull are simple.

Every square pulled must be adjacent to, and closer than the immediately previous square the pushed character is pulled from.

You can push like any of these:

....4........
.....3.......
......2......
.......1.....
..4...*......
...3.1a......
....2..b.....
......c......
.....d.......

where `*` is the "source" of the push.