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    Default The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    I and my DM were looking for a class that would fit my character's philosophy and penchant for flame, and so we took the Icesinger class (Dragon# 314), and gave it more of an evocative twist (haha, evocation..).. And thus, we ended up with this. She wants me to get it looked at by the veterans at the boards here before i'm allowed to do anything with it yet. ^^;

    -Also, I apologize for my lack of proper code knowledge.
    Now, without furher ado..

    The Flameweaver
    ”There’s a fire in this blood- and soon all the world will hear of it!”
    –Mattarias D’Etidrias, Flameweaver.

    The dance of a blazing fire, the ferocious bite of a fiery attack, or a performance that burns with greatest passion, all these are the staple of the Flameweaver. Flameweavers forego the passive nature of most bards and direct all resources toward attack, preferring to engage enemies with flashy explosions and a bewildering series of magical abilities to sitting back and playing a fiddle.

    Table 1-1: The Flameweaver (HD: d6)
    HTML Code:
    LV	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special					Spellcasting
    1	+1	+0	+2	+2         Flametouched, Flamesong Stance 
    2	+2	+0	+3	+3	Flame spell          		    +1 level of bard spellcasting
    3	+3	+1	+3	+3	indomitable blaze, bardic music	    +1 level of bard spellcasting
    4	+4	+1	+4	+4	Flame spell			   
    5	+5	+1	+4	+4	Sparksoul Touch		    +1 level of bard spellcasting
    6	+6	+2	+5	+5	Flame spell, halt the burning horde 
    7	+7	+2	+5	+5	Burn through the Weave	    
    8	+8	+2	+6	+6	Flame spell			    +1 level of bard spellcasting
    9	+9	+3	+6	+6	Soul of storm and fire		    +1 level of bard spellcasting
    10	+10	+3	+7	+7	Cacophonic Holocaust
    Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level): DEX: tumble, hide, move silently. CON: concentration. INT: Craft, spellcraft. WIS: listen. CHA: bluff, disguise, intimidate, and perform (any).

    Becoming a Flameweaver
    To become a Flameweaver, one must be intrinsically linked to fire in some way, whether by a deep fascination with flame, knowledge of the intricacies of fire spells, a family tie to a creature of the [fire] subtype, or a powerful pyromancer. The possibilities are endless, but the results cannot be ignored. Becoming a Flameweaver bestows a great many powerful abilities upon one entering the class. Flameweavers are usually steeped in Bardic arts, and may have been taught, or merely manifested, fire-based abilities.
    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Skills: Perform [any] 9 ranks, Concentrate 9 ranks
    Feats: Skill focus: Perform(any), Fiery Burst.
    Spellcasting: Must have learned at least one fire spell from a tome or scroll.
    Special: Inspire Competence class ability, must have overcome an encounter using fire.
    CLASS FEATURES
    All the following are class features of the Flameweaver class.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
    Flameweavers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells per day: A Flameweaver gains additional spells per day and spells known just as if he had gained levels in the bard class he previously belonged to.
    Flametouched (Ex): Starting at first level, a Flameweaver becomes so entranced with fire that he literally takes fire into himself. This allows him to gain fire resistance equal to his Flameweaver level.
    Flamesong Stance (Sp): At first level, a Flameweaver may expend a use of Bardic Music to strike a pose, which creates a blinding flash, blinding all enemies within 30 feet of the Flameweaver if they have line of sight to him. This ability lasts 1d4 rounds plus the Flameweaver's charisma modifer, if any. Also, it does not affect blind or eyeless creatures. A reflex save (DC 10+ Flameweaver level+ CHA modifier) negates this effect.
    Flame spell: At second level, and every other level thereafter, a Flameweaver may select one fire spell from first to sixth level that he does not know to add to his spells known. This spell can come from any class’s spell list. If it is on multiple spell lists, it is gained at the lowest level. This bonus spell can be of a level higher than the Flameweaver can currently cast, but he must wait until that level of spells is available to him to access it. This spell does not count toward a Flameweaver’s maximum spells known.
    Bardic Music: Starting at third level, a Flameweaver continues to advance his bardic music ability. Every Flameweaver level past second counts as a bard level for determing how many uses of bardic music he has.
    Indomitable blaze (Ex): At third level, a Flameweaver stands unwavering before effects that would terrify others. He receives a +4 bonus on saving throws against fear effects, and a +2 bonus against other mind-affecting effects.
    Sparksoul Touch (Su): At fifth level, a Flameweaver gains the ability to channel flame through his hands. With a melee touch attack, a Flameweaver may inflict fire damage equal to 1d4+ his charisma modifier. This may set ablaze flammable objects. Alternately, he may remove the wounded status from themselves or an ally. The Flameweaver need only have one hand free to use this ability.
    Halt the Burning Horde (Ex): At sixth level, a Flameweaver’s force of presence is so great that other fire creatures may be compelled to follow him. This ability functions exactly as the ability of a Cleric with the fire domain, with the exception that the Flameweaver may not affect water creatures.
    Burn Through the Weave (Ex): At seventh level, the Flameweaver’s soul is so hot that he may literally set his spells on fire. All the Flameweaver’s spells count as having the fire descriptor from now on and may be modified accordingly.
    Soul of Storm and Fire(Ex): At ninth level, a Flameweaver becomes one with Fire, becoming wholly immune to its effects, yet vulnerable to what it would be vulnerable to, such as cold spells and effects.
    Cacophonic Holocaust (Ex): At tenth level, a Flameweaver’s offensive power reaches its crescendo, and may be released in a maelstrom of explosive fury. One a week, as a swift action, a Flameweaver may expend all his available uses of bardic music to deal 1d6 of fire damage for each use expended, all to a 30 foot radius about him. Additionally, he may choose to expend all available spell slots to deal an additional 1d10 of fire damage for each spell level sacrificed (1d10 for sacrificing all first level spells from all casting classes, 2d10 for sacrificing all first and second level spells, etc.). The Flameweaver must sacrifice all spells available from all Spellcasting classes he belongs to in order to activate this use of this ability. Also, this ability activates the instant the Flameweaver reaches -10 hit points, regardless if it had already been used, and automatically does the maximum dice of damage available to the user at the time.
    Combat
    Flameweavers prefer pure attack power over defense, and will not hesitate to use all abilities at their disposal to defeat their enemies.

    Flameweavers in the world
    “I was lucky. That… thing was a madman, chanting continuously as the flames burned. He seemed to enjoy every minute of it. I’ll be damned if I deal with another bard again.”
    -Anonymous evildoer, on a recently received burn.
    Flameweavers are for those who are tired of their bard characters falling into the backgrounds in battle, and prefer engaging enemies directly. They attack unceasingly until their battles are won, and are sure to put their fires out when necessary. They enjoy entertainment and see themselves as entertainers to an extent, but are always ready to be entertained themselves, usually in the form of a fight. They see battles as ways to increase their own powers, yet would rather fight only when circumstances make fights high-stakes and unavoidable.

    Organization
    Due to that, they rarely, if ever, join an organization, let alone other Flameweavers, for they know the extent of their powers, and prefer not to chance meeting others of their kind unless both are experienced. Due to the chaotic nature of fire, organizations merely are not fanciful to a Flameweaver’s way of life.

    NPC Reactions
    Few people know even of the existence of Flameweavers, and confuse them with bards or hardy sorcerers. Should the Flameweaver reveal his innate, burning power, however, most people are impressed by the flashy explosions bards are normally incapable of. Otherwise, they are treated as bards tend to be and welcomed in most towns.
    Flameweaver lore
    Characters that have ranks in Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (royalty and nobility), or posses the Bardic Knowledge class feature have a slight chance of knowing of Flameweavers. When a character makes a successful skill check, the following lore is revealed, including information from lower DCs:
    DC 20: Legends tell of a Powerful family that draw their strength from fire. Their art is all but lost now, yet what members there are left are powerful indeed.
    DC 25: Flameweavers are related to an ancient family who control the primal power of fire, and can channel it in a variety of offensive ways, usually forgoing defensive and ‘safe’ tactics for wild and unpredictable offensive strikes.
    DC 30: This degree of success provides the players with details about specific or notable Flameweavers in your campaign, as well as the origins of the class in your world.

    Flameweavers in the game
    Flameweavers are rare, and very rarely are there more than two or so in the world. As such, they are usually confused for bards who merely have a penchant for bright colors and brighter flames. This is convenient for those who wish to keep their identities secret.
    Adaptation
    Although this class is focused on the element of fire, DMs may wish to change the flavor of this class to reflect another element, and may do so easily by slightly modifying class features and prerequisites. This could yield interesting results, such as the “Lightningweaver”, “Earthweaver” or somesuch.

    Sample Encounter
    An encounter with a Flameweaver should make use of their obscurity; tricking the PCs into thinking they are facing a mere bard. The encounter should be in an area with many flammable objects, and the battle should be high-stakes, otherwise, the Flamewaver might grow bored and leave.

    -sample encounter coming soon-
    Last edited by Mattarias, King.; 2007-06-23 at 05:16 PM. Reason: title's better..

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (PrC) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    One level in Bard, the rest in Sorceror for qualification...that would be one MIGHTY powerful sorceror.
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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (PrC) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I see.. uhm.. Thank you? I was thinking it to be a sort of gish-y class for bards that learn spells from scrolls or books or something (as the PHB gives that option.) but ok.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (PrC) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    uhm, are we allowed to bump..? if so, uhm.. help?

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (PrC) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Hello? I was wondering if the last ability should be replaced with something like the pyrokeneticist's conflagration, or something? absorb fire? I dunno.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Looks okay to me. Not sure I'm on board with the concept and it does seem something of a power boost for Bards, but it's not heavily overpowered. This is intended as a 7-16 Prestige Class?
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    (Holy M names, batman! A reply!) Yes, yes it is intended to be a 7-16 prestiege class.

    The concept of the PrC is basically, "screw buffing, we have fire!' for bards. i don't dig how bards tend to be consigned to support-only PrCs and stuff, so this is my and my DM's answer to that.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Reviews from other boards say this is broken, though. Any counterpoints?

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I read it a while ago and it didn't seem too bad, I promise more complete analyzation later. My question right now is: why is it called a weaver, when it's making music. I've never heard the term used in such a way directly with music, only metaphorically, and that was even a stretch.
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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    well, you "weave yarns" when you tell stories, right? That's what bards do. Though I guess a namechange could be in order..
    And maybe I even got my metaphor wrong. eh, it happens.

    Either way, okay then, thank you.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I felt strongly compelled to make my first post in this thread: the reason this Prestige Class is broken is because you are providing both a full bardic music progression and a full spellcasting progression. The special abilities don't seem all that unbalancing, but as Vadin pointed out, taking one level of bard and dumping the rest in Sorcerer leads to a very overpowered sorcerer with full spellcasting and bardic music. If this was a straight Bard prestige class (in that the spellcasting only stacked with bard caster levels), then it might be okay, but the fact that a multi-classed bard can get a full spellcasting progressions from a more powerful spellcasting class makes this Prestige Class unbalanced and ripe for abuse.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.) (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by skeeter_dan View Post
    I felt strongly compelled to make my first post in this thread: the reason this Prestige Class is broken is because you are providing both a full bardic music progression and a full spellcasting progression. The special abilities don't seem all that unbalancing, but as Vadin pointed out, taking one level of bard and dumping the rest in Sorcerer leads to a very overpowered sorcerer with full spellcasting and bardic music. If this was a straight Bard prestige class (in that the spellcasting only stacked with bard caster levels), then it might be okay, but the fact that a multi-classed bard can get a full spellcasting progressions from a more powerful spellcasting class makes this Prestige Class unbalanced and ripe for abuse.
    I see. okay then. so I should take out bardic music progression (or limit to just extra uses per day?) and make the spellcasting only apply to bard progression? Would that work?

    Also, I am honored to have someone have their first post in a thread of mine.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    No, you just need to change the wording. "+1 level of existing class" is what breaks it.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    point. okay then. thanks.

    also: would gimping spellcasting and maybe a save a bit be enough to increase the BAB?
    Last edited by Mattarias, King.; 2007-06-22 at 07:47 PM.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    You don't have to change the name, it's not bad, just not what I would have used.

    Anyway, the way I see it, you should up the bardic music requirements and remove the fire spell and fiery burst requirements. That makes it so you have to be bard to get in, and don't have to multiclass to get in. If you want to keep the fire spell prerequisite, then you'll have to drop the spellcasting to a 1/2 progression, because you're guaranteeing that they will always have full caster levels to stack with it, and then you're granting full casting and full bardic music, which is a little too much.

    The capstone is little much. I'd either allow then to sac one spell slot for 1d10/level, or one slot at each level for say 1d6/slot level. As it is, considering that it's likely going to be with at least 10 sorcerer levels worth of slots (at full power), that's an obscene amount of damage.

    You must have changed that since I last read, it's okay now.
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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    You don't have to change the name, it's not bad, just not what I would have used.

    Anyway, the way I see it, you should up the bardic music requirements and remove the fire spell and fiery burst requirements. That makes it so you have to be bard to get in, and don't have to multiclass to get in. If you want to keep the fire spell prerequisite, then you'll have to drop the spellcasting to a 1/2 progression, because you're guaranteeing that they will always have full caster levels to stack with it, and then you're granting full casting and full bardic music, which is a little too much.

    The capstone is little much. I'd either allow then to sac one spell slot for 1d10/level, or one slot at each level for say 1d6/slot level. As it is, considering that it's likely going to be with at least 10 sorcerer levels worth of slots (at full power), that's an obscene amount of damage.

    You must have changed that since I last read, it's okay now.
    Hm, okay then. The section on magic says bards can learn any type of spell they have access to, like from a scroll or something, so my DM's allowing me to learn fire spells like that. (read: burning hands, and scorching ray next level.) I'm not too hung up on the fire spell prereq, but i'd like to keep fiery burst. It shows a nice mastery over fire that makes it seem the classtaker is worthy.

    Also, I'm all for ditching bardic music entirely, if necessary. It's not something this class is terribly about, anyways. And prereqs- how does inspire competence sound for one? that's a necessary three levels of bard.

    Also, I changed nothing since you last read. O.o; maybe you misread at first?

    edit: okay, fixed. It better?
    Last edited by Mattarias, King.; 2007-06-22 at 08:32 PM.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    No, it's balanced now.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnid View Post
    No, it's balanced now.
    Okay then. Question, though: How could one go about increasing the BAB?

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    Probably by taking out Caster Level Increases.
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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    hm, okay then. all or just some? This class IS supposed to be gish-ey.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    It still requires house ruling to get into, the bit about learning from srcolls and other sources is for if a spell isn't considered common enough knowledge to learn on level up, but is still on your class list. I'm pretty sure bards don't have any fire descriptor spells at all, so you can't get firey burst (the reserve feat, right?) as a straight bard. Which means you will need to take a different class level of say, sorcerer, and then benefit from a nearly full sorcerer progression.

    However, after requiring at least three bard levels, full spellcasting is no longer full. I'd take away a level at first even so, because PrC's shouldn't grant full caster progression anyway.
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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    well, it S kinda designed to be uncommon and hard to get into. The section on magic that describes bards and sorcerers learning spells from scrolls or something says nothing on if it -has- to be on our spell list, just that your DM has to approve it. And the class is now "+1 bard spellcasting" anyways, so no benifiting from sorcerer progression.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    If you don't want to take out too many Caster Levels, you could limit the Spell List (ala the Dusk Blade).
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    If you don't want to take out too many Caster Levels, you could limit the Spell List (ala the Dusk Blade).
    Oh. hmm.. How about only fire spells, then, and get rid of burn through the weave and flame spell? If so, would that warrant more casting?



    I'm currently working on a more martail remake, severing the ties with icesinger. Basically this, but less bard-ey and a D8 HD. Good idea? Bad Idea?
    Last edited by Mattarias, King.; 2007-06-29 at 12:45 PM.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    From everything I've read that you have posted, you really don't seem to want to be a bard in the first place. You really seem to want to be a sorcerer/wizard(evoker) with some ranks in Perform(any). Bard is the least burnination of the casters in the first place. Bards have a lot of buff, problem solving, and healing on their list, adding some decent Evo would tip that balance strongly. I mean bards are the only arcane caster with Cure spells on their list, Take away the one hole in their spell list and you have a dang good caster.
    If at first you don't succeed, Reload.

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    Default Re: The Flameweaver (Bard PrC.)

    Capt .12 Gauge may be right.

    You may just have to accept the limitations of this sort of thing. Take out some Caster Levels and keep the Abilities or take out/change some of the Abilities and keep the Caster Levels.

    Making a more Martial Bard is an okay idea, but you are likely to encounter the same sort of balance problems.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

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