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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    The druid could just be playing along until the right opportunity to interfere occurs.
    Yes former... Err I mean boss, my plan all along was to betray Orcus...

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    What I'm curious about is, what about the Warlock's Patron? How do they feel about Orcus becoming a god?

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    In the 5e game I DM, our level 10 Warlock has deceived the party into thinking that she knows the location of a place they can seal an evil dead deity's remains away forever. The Warlock has even convinced the party to let her handle the portable hole that contains said remains. What she is actually doing, is delivering the remains to Orcus (her patron) who will use them in his bid to become a diety. Our level 10 druid (suddenly evil druid) is recently in on the plan after he discovered the plot by accident. Why is a Druid helping bring Orcus into Faerun? Who knows, but we're rolling with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    What I'm curious about is, what about the Warlock's Patron? How do they feel about Orcus becoming a god?
    Patron = Orcus. So, probably good, unless Orcus has dissociative identity issues.
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkat718 View Post
    I'd take a look at the Blessings available on p. 227-228 of the DMG. Specifically, the Blessing of Valhalla allows the bearer to summon 2d4+2 CR 2 Berserkers within 60 ft. of them, refreshing after 7 days. Ogre Zombies (MM, p. 316) are also CR 2, and would make for a good replacement.
    Like the way you think!

    Also like the "makes the warlock emo" suggestion. But the Warlock would probably need to get on board and embrace that, as it's RP heavy.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Aren't you the one that always talks about old D&D?
    Irrelevant to my comments in this discussion, as we are discussing 5e (see title of forum) and I am citing the 5e PHB.
    3E had a Lich Druid. Doesn't get much more undeader than that.
    One of a myriad of things wrong with NEW D&D. 3.0 is new, my friend. But quite frankly, I expect that in 1e or 2e any number of folks might have tried that out -- it was very much an experimenter's game in those wild days. But if one was at least close to RAW in those days (for sure 1e) a Liche could not be a Cleric, of which druid was a sub class. Had to be some sort of Magic User. (Just checked: 2e retained the "must have been a Wizard of 18th level or higher for Liche).

    (Wisecrack of Opportunity asking you to vacate the verge is not taken).
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2016-01-06 at 03:25 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by gfishfunk View Post
    Patron = Orcus. So, probably good, unless Orcus has dissociative identity issues.
    Oh whoops, missed that! Thanks :P I don't have SCAG so I'm not used to thinking about the pact from there yet.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    RP rewards:
    1. He no longer needs to eat, sleep or breathe.
    2. He assumes a more demonic and/or undead appearance, which makes him unnerving and recognizable
    3. He is given a special rank or title by Orcus, becoming both respected and influential amongst other followers of Orcus.

    Mechanical Rewards:
    1. Rod of the pact keeper replaces its 1/day spell slot ability with the following: When your Dark One's Blessing activates (when you drop a foe to 0 HP) your rod absorbs a portion of the slain creature's life and soul, gaining 1 charge (to a maximum of 20). When you cast a Warlock spell you can spend a number of charges from your rod equal to the spells level in place of the warlock pact magic slot you would normally use.
    2. Add 1 or 2 spells per spell level to the Warlocks' spells known. Good additions could be taken from the Patron's expanded spells, an appropriate cleric domain, or here. Create undead would be an excellent choice, and together with the Rod's effect would mimic Orcus and his wand nicely.

    Nothing that makes him immediately OP, but is desirable and fun. If he starts massacring peasants to fuel his Rod then the RP elements come into play.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2016-01-06 at 03:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Irrelevant to my comments in this discussion, as we are discussing 5e (see title of forum) and I am citing the 5e PHB. One of a myriad of things wrong with NEW D&D. 3.0 is new, my friend. But quite frankly, I expect that in 1e or 2e any number of folks might have tried that out -- it was very much an experimenter's game in those wild days. But if one was at least close to RAW in those days (for sure 1e) a Liche could not be a Cleric, of which druid was a sub class. Had to be some sort of Magic User.

    (Wisecrack of Opportunity asking you to vacate the verge is not taken).
    So when other people talk just about 5e you can bring up old D&D but when others talk about it then it's wrong?

    Wow, nice...

    It is possible to have an undead Druid bias 5e rules, DM says yes.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    So when other people talk just about 5e you can bring up old D&D but when others talk about it then it's wrong?
    No, those are your words, not mine, and by the way, a FALSE characterization of my post. YOu might wish to be less dishonest in the future. Your use of "So" in that sentence is a red flag to alert all reader to "falsehood follows" when the following is an attempt to put your words into someone else's mouth.
    It is possible to have an undead Druid bias 5e rules, DM says yes.
    Indeed it is, if the DM chooses to craft one. (And it might be an awesome "rule of cool" invention at that!) That is homebrew, not the published rule book I was referring to in what a Druid is, per description in the PHB.

    Did you bother to read it, the PHB, or are you just talking out of your backside?

    EDIT
    Here, let me be of help:
    Druids accept that which is cruel in nature, and they hate that which is unnatural, including abberations(such as beholders and mind flayers) and undead (such as zombies and vampires)
    Page 65 PHB.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2016-01-06 at 06:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Wow, thanks for all the insightful feedback! Orcus becoming a deity is definitely going to be a major world changing event. Following his rise, certain anomalies will occur at random at least until he either succeeds or fails. The pc's will hear stories about a town where the inhabitants are no longer dying of natural causes or any cause for that matter, another where the inhabitants turn undead immediately following death, a graveyard that has become a massive sinkhole said to lead to the Abyss itself, small communities/towns begin struggling with a surge of kidnappings and undead stalking the land, the leader of a major nation has come out as a lich but none dare oppose him and his minions.

    I have talked to the Warlock and if the party makes attempt to stop her, and it looks like she will lose, she will simply throw herself (along with the portable hole) into the pit Orcus told her that he wanted them delivered to. In this case I suppose she would become the BBEG.

    Assuming that she succeeds, I will eventually have Orcus betray her and make attempt on her and the lives of the party.

    I will definitely upgrade the Rod into giving at least +2 and granting usable spells /day with charges. I have a lot of decisions to make on all the suggestions here, but you guys have made that a lot easier for me now

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    Wow, thanks for all the insightful feedback! Orcus becoming a deity is definitely going to be a major world changing event. Following his rise, certain anomalies will occur at random at least until he either succeeds or fails. The pc's will hear stories about a town where the inhabitants are no longer dying of natural causes or any cause for that matter, another where the inhabitants turn undead immediately following death, a graveyard that has become a massive sinkhole said to lead to the Abyss itself, small communities/towns begin struggling with a surge of kidnappings and undead stalking the land, the leader of a major nation has come out as a lich but none dare oppose him and his minions.

    I have talked to the Warlock and if the party makes attempt to stop her, and it looks like she will lose, she will simply throw herself (along with the portable hole) into the pit Orcus told her that he wanted them delivered to. In this case I suppose she would become the BBEG.

    Assuming that she succeeds, I will eventually have Orcus betray her and make attempt on her and the lives of the party.

    I will definitely upgrade the Rod into giving at least +2 and granting usable spells /day with charges. I have a lot of decisions to make on all the suggestions here, but you guys have made that a lot easier for me now
    Please let us know how it all plays out, this looks like some seriously awesome fun at your table.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Will do! As for the Druid i think i can homebrew something somewhat plausible. As a Land Druid he would lose Grassland as his circle, and instead have to choose Abyss as his new Circle (with appropriate fire/death spells). As for shapeshifting, maybe have to choose from Abyssal creatures only. In addition, normal Druids, fey, and wildlife would recognize him for what he is. As for his reason for helping Orcus, i will really have to discuss that with him. His orginal reasoning was 'I think it would be cool'. Which is fair, I guess but with that thinking, I will definitely be making consequences for his actions.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    Orcus has told the Warlock that the rewards for a such an undertaking would be great, but what would be appropriate for a level 10 Warlock who already has a Rod of the Pact Keeper +1? Next level role playing, and supremely good rolls make me want to be generous, but this player is already quite powerful. So far I have played with these ideas or a combination of them:

    -Some roleplay fluff: her steps leave behind a faint trail of miasma filling onlookers with dread (can be toggled i suppose), dogs, cats birds, lesser wildlife fear/wary of her. Encountered demons may recognize her?
    -Gain animate dead as a bonus invocation (limited uses),
    -Adopt a demonic characteristic(s) (claws, wings, or a breath weapon). Mostly for RP.
    -Disregard my concerns and upgrade her Rod Of The Pact Keeper to near artifact level power.
    -On top of granting temporary hit points, dealing a killing blow allows her to absorb a part of their soul, fueling charges for limited spells on her improved Rod of the Pact Keeper.
    Your thoughts?
    Assuming you're not going to have Orcus betray the PC, the reward I would suggest is not powers but social status, including minions. She gets a place in Orcus's priestly or military hierarchy (can't remember which one he uses), has to take orders from some entities but gets to give orders to others. If Orcus really wants to, he can whistle up a Death Knight for her and order it to be her bodyguard/butler/batman. There would be social repercussions for being seen with an undead Death Knight in public, but from Orcus's perspective that's not even a downside, just a thing which people need to get over, possibly by the Death Knight fireballing them in the face.

    The best part is, even if Orcus is genuinely not planning on betraying her eventually and having the Death Knight kill her, there's no way she can ever be entirely sure of that.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2016-01-07 at 12:39 AM.
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    3.0 is new
    Not that it's important, but since you're calling others dishonest, this isnt exactly honest, either. Being newer than something else doesn't make that something new, especially it that something is about a decade and a half old and there have been several editions of that something since its release.
    I usually post from my phone, so please excuse any horrendous typos.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 b4k4 View Post
    [to somebody getting upset over somebody else's house rule] Maybe you should take a break, you're getting rather worked up over magic elf games.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlc View Post
    Not that it's important, but since you're calling others dishonest, this isnt exactly honest, either. Being newer than something else doesn't make that something new, especially it that something is about a decade and a half old and there have been several editions of that something since its release.
    At the risk of zero value bickering, in the context of his criticism of my often referring to TSR editions (which I do), all of WoTC D&D is "new" in comparison to those references, which was his gripe.

    Further that point, the style and feel of the game underwent a significant change between 2e to 3e -- the d20 system was in a lot of ways a new game, even though it is built on the foundations of the old game -- but that's a discussion for another thread.

    To put the numbers to it, I've been with this game since ~1975, so something 15 years old is certainly new ... in that bounded time frame. SwordChuck ( in a different discussion) pointed out quite correctly that while 5e tries to get some of the older feel to the game, it is very much a WoTC era D&D game -- the new form of the game.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2016-01-07 at 08:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    I recently started a similar campaign where the pcs patron had them gather the supplies to raise an avatar of orcas (death tyrant reskinned) his reward is orcas granting him the knowledge on how to become a lich. That could also work for a pc and lead to a campaign in and of itself. For my game this allows the npc to become the bigger badder guy once the avatar is dead.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    His orginal reasoning was 'I think it would be cool'. Which is fair, I guess but with that thinking, I will definitely be making consequences for his actions.
    I mean, he is playing to have fun, so "it would be cool" makes sense for the player, but yeah, definitely give the character some kind of consequences, even if it's just new spells and people being suspicious if him.
    Actually, people will probably be suspicious if the whole party, if it gets out that even just the warlock follows Orcus. Maybe paladins or priests will be attacking them on site. Maybe you can even send some angels their way in addition to the ramdom undead and dinkhole appearances to drive the point home that they're dealing with some evil stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    At the risk of zero value bickering...
    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I could definitely argue more, but this whole thing is just going to go in circles.
    I usually post from my phone, so please excuse any horrendous typos.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1337 b4k4 View Post
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlc View Post
    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I could definitely argue more, but this whole thing is just going to go in circles.
    Agree to disagree I will, and warmest regards. I suspect that the initial jab at me from our friend was a carry over from a different discussion where I responded negatively (I wasn't the only one) to an idea presented for consideration.

    Happy gaming, in any case.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2016-01-07 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    I will eventually have Orcus betray her...
    I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Just as Lawful Good isn't automatically Inflexible Stupid, neither is Chaotic Evil automatically Random Stupid. Why would Orcus get rid of an obviously useful tool (the Warlock) who already has a pact with him? He's smart enough to take advantage of tools that are still useful and who will promote his agenda. Orcus is a long-term planner and would obviously weigh the improvement of a devoted follower with various rewards against all the agenda advancement that he would receive from an influential follower. Besides, what is the lifetime of a PC compared to that of a being who's age is measured in millennia? Orcus has no reason to betray the Warlock so long as the Warlock continues to serve. That won't stop him from having contingencies though, and he won't hesitate to annihilate the Warlock should she attempt to betray him.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by snacksmoto View Post
    I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Just as Lawful Good isn't automatically Inflexible Stupid, neither is Chaotic Evil automatically Random Stupid. Why would Orcus get rid of an obviously useful tool (the Warlock) who already has a pact with him? He's smart enough to take advantage of tools that are still useful and who will promote his agenda. Orcus is a long-term planner and would obviously weigh the improvement of a devoted follower with various rewards against all the agenda advancement that he would receive from an influential follower. Besides, what is the lifetime of a PC compared to that of a being who's age is measured in millennia? Orcus has no reason to betray the Warlock so long as the Warlock continues to serve. That won't stop him from having contingencies though, and he won't hesitate to annihilate the Warlock should she attempt to betray him.
    Sigh. I'm not RP'ing Orcus as Chaotic stupid and i dont see it as a stretch for Orcus to send a few Demons her way to as a test. Calling it betrayal may have been a bit extreme as its not exactly what I intend.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by snacksmoto View Post
    I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Just as Lawful Good isn't automatically Inflexible Stupid, neither is Chaotic Evil automatically Random Stupid. Why would Orcus get rid of an obviously useful tool (the Warlock) who already has a pact with him? He's smart enough to take advantage of tools that are still useful and who will promote his agenda. Orcus is a long-term planner and would obviously weigh the improvement of a devoted follower with various rewards against all the agenda advancement that he would receive from an influential follower. Besides, what is the lifetime of a PC compared to that of a being who's age is measured in millennia? Orcus has no reason to betray the Warlock so long as the Warlock continues to serve. That won't stop him from having contingencies though, and he won't hesitate to annihilate the Warlock should she attempt to betray him.
    Maybe Orcus, like the druid, just thinks 'I think it would be cool'.
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Now if I was Orcus and someone helped me become a god, I think I would reward them by allowing them to shed their weak shell of life. Turn them into a powerful undead like a lich as a lieutenant. That's sort of campaign ending though, so use only if needed.
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    A working ritual to achieve lichedom is a pretty standard favor Orcus hands out isn't it?

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by applepi2054 View Post
    Now if I was Orcus and someone helped me become a god, I think I would reward them by allowing them to shed their weak shell of life. Turn them into a powerful undead like a lich as a lieutenant. That's sort of campaign ending though, so use only if needed.
    That's actually a really cool idea if it ever comes to that. I just don't want her to get too comfortable with Orcus. Just an occassional reminder that he is a maniacal, scheming, and at best unpredictable entity bent on destroying all life. Sure, he may tone it down a bit once he achieves godhood to attract more followers, but he is what he is.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by applepi2054 View Post
    Now if I was Orcus and someone helped me become a god, I think I would reward them by allowing them to shed their weak shell of life. Turn them into a powerful undead like a lich as a lieutenant. That's sort of campaign ending though, so use only if needed.
    And maybe change the name of the PC to Xorcon or Xorkon or something like that.


    What?

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    That's actually a really cool idea if it ever comes to that. I just don't want her to get too comfortable with Orcus. Just an occassional reminder that he is a maniacal, scheming, and at best unpredictable entity bent on destroying all life. Sure, he may tone it down a bit once he achieves godhood to attract more followers, but he is what he is.
    That's why the warlock should make sure he doesn't have a life anymore. Go team undead!

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Depending on how the warlock plays it, Orcus might decide that he's given her too much power and she's become a threat. Obviously, this would make the most sensr if you plan on ending the campaign with a big fight against Orcus.
    I usually post from my phone, so please excuse any horrendous typos.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenCamel View Post
    That's actually a really cool idea if it ever comes to that. I just don't want her to get too comfortable with Orcus. Just an occassional reminder that he is a maniacal, scheming, and at best unpredictable entity bent on destroying all life. Sure, he may tone it down a bit once he achieves godhood to attract more followers, but he is what he is.
    Quick question, is she pact of the fiend or pact of the undying? Cus leveling up, undying become pseudo-undead lich-in-training types
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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Not sure if this is helpful, but I just saw something about undead Druids (albeit 3.5e) that you might find useful if the druid player gets totally onboard with the warlock in making Orcus a God.

    You might be able to fold that in/port that in to 5e.
    Or not.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    I think that Orcus can tell the Warlock the secrets of lichdom, and encourage the warlock to take that path eventually. Orcus would probably appreciate an immortal intelligent undead as the head of his newfound church.

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    Default Re: Helping Orcus become a Deity. Rewards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osrogue View Post
    I think that Orcus can tell the Warlock the secrets of lichdom, and encourage the warlock to take that path eventually. Orcus would probably appreciate an immortal intelligent undead as the head of his newfound church.
    Isn't the Ghoul king one of Orcus' exarchs or something anything anyways? Its not like its above him to elevate a powerful servant to near deity like status as well.

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