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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    Howdy Homebrew boards!

    I have put together a bit of homebrew that allows for Lycan PC players. Before I get into some of the logic behind it, here is the link:

    1/7/2016 - updated link to allow easier access:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byt...JxSTJPbVU/view

    Lycans have always been a big favorite at D&D tables, as players want to play these wild, feral creatures or encounters with Lycans result in someone being infected and then a "what happens now?" conversation pops up.

    Yet the problem is always this - Lycans are really strong. Improved senses, extra strength, more durability... why WOULDN'T a player want to pick this up?

    Of course, as a DM, this is a headache. WOTC has tried to tackle this in previous editions in a few ways, such as applying the "template" mechanic to a character who became a Lycan, or having a Lycan race.

    This always seemed ham fisted to me. The template was kind of limiting, making either a very powerful character or a very weak one, depending on the template used. Similarly, races had the same weakness, with the added assumption that every Lycan was human based, a big assumption in D&D. Why can't I have my Lycan Halfling, dammit?!

    So (if you've looked at my document at all), you'll see I went a different route - Lycan as a class. This outlines new rules for Lycanthrope infection, as well as the process for "turning" into a new Lycan.

    But more importantly, it also allows progression as a Lycan, as well as different playstyles within the class itself. One can be a Lycan, but take zero levels as a Lycan. You'd be highly unpredictable in a fight, but it could work. Conversely, you can go full 20 with the class, or MC existing or new levels in different classes and still have a valid method of play.

    The overall draft of the class is a bit like if you morphed the layout of the Wild Shape Druid and a Warlock into one:

    1) You have the Lycan Breed type - wolf, bear and rat are in here, but it is quite easy to adapt new ones by applying simple information from the Monster's Manual. This is very similar to the Warlock's Patron in design.

    2) Then you have the Instinct Path, which further defines how your character fits into the mold of the Lycan, which basically work as the Class Archetype

    3) Lastly, you have Lycan Prowess choices, similar to a Warlock's Invocation. These can be tied to Instinct Paths, Breed, Class Level or nothing at all, but all provide a high level of customization.



    I can talk further on this if people have questions, but I wanted to get people's input first. I know the document is very ugly/not in the PHB format, and I also know it is a lot of pages. So anyone who can get through all of that and wants to post any feedback will have my gratitude.
    Last edited by Fast Jimmy; 2016-01-10 at 09:29 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    I'm certainly no expert, but it looks pretty good to me. Though the Hit Die seems a bit on the low side for a Lycan, imo. I'd have probably started them with a d8 at least.

    I don't know if you'd be interested, but I actually just posted a Worgen race in this same forum that would be pretty easy to adapt to your requirements if you like. (just change Two Forms to whatever base race you like, and the size/age/speed to match)
    Last edited by Oramac; 2016-01-06 at 05:38 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    I'm certainly no expert, but it looks pretty good to me. Though the Hit Die seems a bit on the low side for a Lycan, imo. I'd have probably started them with a d8 at least.
    Well, I thought about starting them as a D8, but I wanted each Beast Form to have different hit die (rats 8, wolf 10, bear 12). But I think you are right - maybe I'll do Normal Form d8, wolf and rat d10 and bear d12.

    I don't know if you'd be interested, but I actually just posted a Worgen race in this same forum that would be pretty easy to adapt to your requirements if you like. (just change Two Forms to whatever base race you like, and the size/age/speed to match)
    Hmmm. Let me take a look and I'll let you know. Thanks for the feedback!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    I am unable to open the link sadly. Is it possible for you to upload it in any other way? ^^
    Homebrew currently in the air:
    Beastmaster (Single strong companion) (Merge) (Buff) (Companions CC)
    Life-bender (move HP)(Shielding)

    My Homebrew:
    Lycanthropic Barbarian[3.5]
    Guerilla Warrior[3.5]
    Pact Bound[3.5][WIP]

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by sajro View Post
    I am unable to open the link sadly. Is it possible for you to upload it in any other way? ^^
    I tried adding a second link - let me know if that winds up working for you?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Dec 2013
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    turkey
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    Male

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Jimmy View Post
    I tried adding a second link - let me know if that winds up working for you?
    jimmy do us a favor and put genuine pdf open link not download link than all problem gone for every body

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    I don't know if you'd be interested, but I actually just posted a Worgen race in this same forum that would be pretty easy to adapt to your requirements if you like. (just change Two Forms to whatever base race you like, and the size/age/speed to match)
    Looking at the Worg race you made, I don't think it would fit into my template that well. The Worgs seem to be a race that remains in Beast Form the vast majority of the time, while only being able to change to human/humanoid form a few times a day. With the class I had designed, this would be really unbalanced, since many of the (very powerful) abilities of my Lycan class are derived when the character is in their Beast Form, so these would instead be "always on" for the purposes of my Lycan class abilities.

    My model is to instead move away from using Lycanthropy and race together, as it creates unnecessary imbalance in my mind. Having it be a disease that imposes a condition (Feral Lunacy and Vulnerability to Silver) and then allows the player to begin taking classes in Lycan to harness the better abilities of their condition makes more sense to me.



    Thanks for the feedback - I'm going to definitely update the Hit Dice for my next edition.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    jimmy do us a favor and put genuine pdf open link not download link than all problem gone for every body
    I am trying to do this from my mobile phone, so that's likely the biggest hurdle to all of this. I sincerely apologize - does this work?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byt...JxSTJPbVU/view
    Last edited by Fast Jimmy; 2016-01-07 at 09:29 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
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    Dec 2013
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    turkey
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    Male

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Jimmy View Post
    I am trying to do this from my mobile phone, so that's likely the biggest hurdle to all of this. I sincerely apologize - does this work?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byt...JxSTJPbVU/view
    no problem mate now mobile users can comment the class to

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    no problem mate now mobile users can comment the class to
    Sweet. I will update the original post with this easier-to-use link.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    As a point of clarification of what I'd be most interested in feedback on, I'm really "whatever" about the Lycanthropy disease part and the fluff is just that - we all know what werewolves are. So feel free to skip the first two or three pages.

    I'd really like to hear feedback on:

    1) Lycan-as-a-class overall concept (vs. race or template)
    2) Lycan Breed designs
    3) Instinct Path archetypes
    4) Lycan Prowess abilities


    Thanks!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class

    <has more posts about how his link didn't work rather than the 9 page Homebrew>


  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    This seems super duper powerful. Transformed stats can go beyond 20? Each transformation has two hits plus a bonus action hit that scales like a cantrip? Group tactics lets anyone get an extra attack in the next turn once per short rest? The party each gain advantage to mental saves when they're around each other just whenever? Loner has +5 to initiative rolls for the duration of the transformation(at least an hour) and an extra twenty feat of movement at level 3? Basically taking the Alert and Mobile feat twice? Then at level 6 they get double proficiency bonus to hit?. At level ten you can have your claws become not only magical but also a +1 weapon, a straight upgrade from the Druid and Monk features? Or just straight double the damage dice per hit? Or advantage on four skill checks? A sneak-attack like autocrit on creatures that haven't moved? Double hit die healing on short rests? The capstone is a strong straight upgrade to Heavy Armor Master's 3 damage resistance per hit to 10 damage per hit, and an arguable upgrade to the Champion's level 18 ability, giving 1d10 health worth's of regeneration every round as opposed to 5+con whenever you're under half health?


    I like the flavor and your overall template, especially how it mirrors the warlock progression with differing choices in Lycan and breed from, but there are way too many features, and a lot of them are extremely powerful. Like, I'm not sure why I'd play half the classes instead of this one powerful. The features should be toned down, and Lycan Prowess needs a bit more explaining. Do you select them like the Warlock Eldritch Invocations or do you just get all of them innately? The second option has enough features in it to be it's own subclass.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    Thanks so much for the feedback! I figured a lot of the stuff requires some balancing, just because there was so much to create for the format I was looking for (three Breed types, three archetypes and over 20 Lycan Prowess choices to make).

    That said, I'm going to try and give my mindset on why I made some of the choices. After all, most of the great stuff comes from Beast Form, which is once per Short Rest, so this isn't every encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus1Sword View Post
    This seems super duper powerful. Transformed stats can go beyond 20?
    I figured the beyond-20 was necessary, as otherwise why transform if your primary attack stat was already at 20? I wanted to give a clean + bonus to the current stat, otherwise there is a chance the character could become weaker in Beast Form, which doesn't make any sense.

    Each transformation has two hits plus a bonus action hit that scales like a cantrip?
    This was lifted nearly right off the MM entry on page 206 for various Lycanthropes, so my problem may have been mirroring that too much.

    That said, the two claw attacks are only d4's for the Wererat and Werebear and d6's for the werewolf - strong at Level 1. At level 15, that's not that great (at least not without some of the Lycan Prowess abilities). And the bite attack is a d4 with the ability to add less-than-Sneak Attack damage... but only if that one attack hits (as opposed to any attack hitting for the rogue). But I agree - multi-attack right out the gate might be too much. Maybe start out with one attack plus the Bonus Action Bite, with less d6 increases over the course of the levels.

    Group tactics lets anyone get an extra attack in the next turn once per short rest? The party each gain advantage to mental saves when they're around each other just whenever?
    For what it's worth, it isn't an extra Attack action, but an extra Attack. I didn't think it's that strong? Once per SR to have the party make one extra attack on one target is great, but I don't see how it is broken.

    I think the Advantage to mental saves is weaker than the Paladin's aura to add bonuses to all saves - do you think putting a shorter range on it would be better balanced?

    Loner has +5 to initiative rolls for the duration of the transformation(at least an hour) and an extra twenty feat of movement at level 3? Basically taking the Alert and Mobile feat twice? Then at level 6 they get double proficiency bonus to hit?.
    Yeah... okay, that's a lot on Level 3. I'll scale that back.

    But Double proficiency to attack is only with Feral Lunacy... a state that basically means the player loses control of their character. They can't turn off the crazy until they revert back to Normal Form, burning their one Transformation for the SR. So they basically can only use it one fight, otherwise they will begin attacking their party for the next hour. The whole Loner archetype is really built around the "nuclear option" of voluntary Feral Lunacy. I wanted to make it powerful because it is very dangerous to use.

    At level ten you can have your claws become not only magical but also a +1 weapon, a straight upgrade from the Druid and Monk features? Or just straight double the damage dice per hit? Or advantage on four skill checks? A sneak-attack like autocrit on creatures that haven't moved? Double hit die healing on short rests?
    I'd suggest taking a closer look at the Lycan Prowess description and look at the Class Table that shows you get only one of these at first level, with a max of seven at 18th. This power curve is the exact same as Warlock's Invocations.

    The capstone is a strong straight upgrade to Heavy Armor Master's 3 damage resistance per hit to 10 damage per hit, and an arguable upgrade to the Champion's level 18 ability, giving 1d10 health worth's of regeneration every round as opposed to 5+con whenever you're under half health?
    One of the Lycan's core characteristics is resistance to non-magical/non-silvered weapons. This can be picked at a lower effective level as a Prowess, but I wanted it come back in a big way for the capstone. And I also wanted to do a regeneration ability, as I thought that the flavor would fit well.

    Now, 10 damage resistance every hit and 10 regeneration every round is massively strong. I'll probably scale it back (maybe 5 damage resistance and regeneration?), but at Level 20, I figured taking that amount of damage a round for a class that is designed to have no ranged ability was rather likely. But I agree - too strong.

    I like the flavor and your overall template, especially how it mirrors the warlock progression with differing choices in Lycan and breed from, but there are way too many features, and a lot of them are extremely powerful. Like, I'm not sure why I'd play half the classes instead of this one powerful.

    The features should be toned down, and Lycan Prowess needs a bit more explaining. Do you select them like the Warlock Eldritch Invocations or do you just get all of them innately? The second option has enough features in it to be it's own subclass.
    Again, maybe take a look at things with a better understandint of Lycan Prowess (and assuming I'll dial back some of the things I acknowledged in this post). The Warlock would be insanely overpowered if they got every Invocation, after all.



    Thank you again for the feedback! Very helpful all around. I'll put up another post when I make the edits discussed.
    Last edited by Fast Jimmy; 2016-01-10 at 08:13 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Male

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    Hello!

    First off I would just like to say, cool brew you've got here. I think that most of the stuff that needed mention fixing has been mentioned.
    I am a little foggy about two things regarding the class/forms.

    1. Each of the forms listed in the pdf have a listed AC, where exactly does this number come from? I'm not sure if the forms AC is straight from the Monster Manual but if for example I raised my character's DEX does it have no effect on the form AC and it just determines Saves, Skills etc.? Or if it does affect it, what exactly does make up the AC of the forms? Otherwise if you get the AC + Dex, holy moley that's high.

    2. To follow up a little bit on the Loner Path. You mention the thing that balances out the Double Proficiency that Improved Feral Lunacy gets is the fact that you attack your friends after you finish with your enemies, but can't you just go for the Int Save to revert back to sanity after the combat. Unless you can't do that when you activate Feral Lunacy through your Transformed state. If that is the case just a little sentence in the Improved Feral Lunacy saying so is needed to not confuse people.

    And once again Good Work!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Jan 2016
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    Winterhaven
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    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    Why is the AC for the Bear breed a 20?

    The Rat has a less hit points, but is more agile and harder to hit, so it gets an AC of 18 to compensate.

    The Wolf has more hit points, but is less agile than the Rat, so it gets a lower AC of 16.

    The Bear has even more hit points, but is harder to hit than the Rat or Wolf? That just doesn't make sense to me.

    I may have overlooked something while I was reading the class (and if I did so I apologize) but I would like to hear your reasoning. Apart from this however, THANK YOU for making this class! My favorite class in Pathfinder was the Bloodrager because it mixed together the bloodlines from one of my other favorite classes, Sorcerer, and the primal strength of a Barbarian. I was thinking of homebrewing a 5E Bloodrager class so I could play a reluctant demonic rageshaper, but the Pretender Instinct matches my character concept perfectly! Can't wait to try this out in a game.

    Edit: Do you receive the breed features in order, or can you pick from them?
    Last edited by TGMohle; 2016-01-21 at 01:36 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Aug 2016

    Default Re: Lycan Homebrew Class (PEACH)

    One of my buddies was looking for a way to play as a lycan. Looks great!

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