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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    So, my barest understanding of the Shadowfell is that after the Spellplague, necrotic energy was taken and shoved into the Plane of Shadows, turning it into the Shadowfell. Now, I understand the Shadowfell is where the undead get the magical energy needed to exist, but what else is there? Are there denizens who populate it? Are there Archfey equivalents in the Shadowfell like there are in the Feywild? what are they like?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga View Post
    So, my barest understanding of the Shadowfell is that after the Spellplague, necrotic energy was taken and shoved into the Plane of Shadows, turning it into the Shadowfell. Now, I understand the Shadowfell is where the undead get the magical energy needed to exist, but what else is there? Are there denizens who populate it? Are there Archfey equivalents in the Shadowfell like there are in the Feywild? what are they like?
    In base 4e lore, the Shadowfell was where the Primordials put all the bits that were "too dark" (while the Feywild got the bright bits) while they were crafting the world. The Shadar-kai race comes from there, along with many creatures with the Shadow keyword. I think souls pass through it on their way to their appropriate afterlife. The Raven Queen (once-human goddess of Death, Winter, and Fate) lives there, but I'm not sure what other powers are to be found there. Anything intelligent with a Shadow origin, including undead powerful enough to hide from or resist the Raven Queen, would make sense. The vampire lord Strahd, and the Ravenloft area, were put in there 4e I believe.

    The place is less compatible with life and power, so I think you don't get an exact mirror of the Archfey in the Feywild.

    Of course, you mentioned the Spellplague, so you're probably talking about Faerūn, in which case I don't know.
    Last edited by Excession; 2016-01-13 at 07:52 AM.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    In base 4e lore, the Shadowfell was where the Primordials put all the bits that were "too dark" (while the Feywild got the bright bits) while they were crafting the world. The Shadar-kai race comes from there, along with many creatures with the Shadow keyword. I think souls pass through it on their way to their appropriate afterlife. The Raven Queen (once-human goddess of Death, Winter, and Fate) lives there, but I'm not sure what other powers are to be found there. Anything intelligent with a Shadow origin, including undead powerful enough to hide from or resist the Raven Queen, would make sense. The vampire lord Strahd, and the Ravenloft area, were put in there 4e I believe.

    The place is less compatible with life and power, so I think you don't get an exact mirror of the Archfey in the Feywild.

    Of course, you mentioned the Spellplague, so you're probably talking about Faerūn, in which case I don't know.
    didn't the spellplague affect all Material Planes? And don't the Feywild And Shadowfell strength into all Material Planes?

    so, Raven Queen and Strahd, is that it?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    It took me forever to understand the relationship between the default 4e setting, also known as Points of Light, Nentir Vale or The Dawn War, and everything else.

    Apparently, it borrows things from other settings, such as the names of certain gods. But the Bane of Points of Light has a vastly different backstory from the Bane of the Forgotten Realms, the PoL one having never been a mortal. And this version of Vecna is probably not the same as the one from Greyhawk either.

    They also tried to make other settings more like the new default one, sometimes with a local explanation for the change. According to Point of Light lore, the Abyss was born in the Elemental Chaos when a shard of pure evil, possibly of Far Realm origin, was thrown into the mix by the god Tharizdun. But according to Forgotten Realms lore, the Abyss existed as an outer plane until Asmodeus exiled it into the Elemental Chaos as a mean to end the Blood War between Devils and Demons.

    Nevermind the planes being supposedly the same no matter what setting you play in. That would have been much too simple.

    So, the Shadowfell... As another poster said, PoL attributes its origin to the Primordials. But if I remember correctly, the FR version is a creation of the goddess Shar.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    It took me forever to understand the relationship between the default 4e setting, also known as Points of Light, Nentir Vale or The Dawn War, and everything else.
    I love the lore of the Dawn War, but it is so, so well hidden. There was a very-short-lived paragon game that took place in the astral sea, and it took many hours of research to put together a partial mental image of the dawn lore timeline. I did a bad job of recording what I'd learned anywhere but in that recruitment thread, which of course now I can't find.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol
    I love the lore of the Dawn War, but it is so, so well hidden.
    I don't hate it either, which makes it being all over the place that much worse.

    One thing I particularly like about the Dawn War is the Nature Spirits. While the Gods and the Dawn Titans disputed each other the Mortal World, the clash of their powers gave birth to the Nature Spirits, beings indissociable from the world itself. And then the Nature Spirits sent both of the warring sides back to their planes! Maintaining the balance might be pretty much all they do but that's one cool way to do it.

    For added confusion, the Forgotten Realms have their own version of the conflict. Here the war was ended by almighty Ao, who divided/duplicated Abeir-Toril into the twin worlds of Abeir and Toril, giving the former to the Dawn Titans and the latter to the Gods. Did Toril really need Abeir in addition to the Feywild and the Shadowfell? And then the Dawn Titans had Abeir stolen from them by... dragons? No mention of the Nature Spirits anywhere. Meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga
    Are there denizens who populate it?
    A difference I found between the 4e and 5e descriptions of the Shadowfell is that it is always night in the 5e Shadowfell, while the 4e Shadowfell just tends to have cloudy days. And yes, in 4e at least, the livings have found ways to settle there.

    There are also the Death Giants. Those are giants who tried to rule the Shadowfell but found its resources insufficient to satiate them, until they started eating souls. Then they became more and more insane and evil than they already were.

    One thing I find funny about the Shadowfell is its Underdark. Either name is fine on its own, but they stupidly combined them into the Shadowdark. And well, the place is pitch-black. Also cold. Just don't go there.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    The Spellplague was absolutely a Faerun specific thing. It was a thing that happened to explain the 4e changes to Faerun.

    Nobody really rules Shadowfell. It's a fairly desolate place. The Raven Queen is probably the closest thing to a ruler it has, in that she lives there and is the most broadly worshipped god there, but she's not exactly ordering people around. Vecna's the silver medalist in that area.

    Beyond the gods, there are people like Strahd around, but they have more in common with kings and lords and so forth than they do with the Archfey. There's nothing large enough to be called a country in Shadowfell, but plenty of towns and villages and even a few cities, most notably Gloomwrought.

    There are, however, lots of ruins, which often looks eerily similar to city in the corresponding place in the material plane.

    Shadar-Kai are the most prominent race living there, but all the PC races can be found there in some numbers. Undead and things with the Shadow origin will rarely seem out of place.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilphon
    There are, however, lots of ruins, which often looks eerily similar to city in the corresponding place in the material plane.
    I do not remember where but I read that it is possible to reinterpret the World Axis with a time travel twist:
    * In the beginning, there was the Far Realm.
    * Then there was an explosion of fire, air, water and earth.
    * When the world was young, it was called the Feywild.
    * The Mortal World is in the Middle Ages in more ways than one.
    * When the world will be old and dying, it will be called the Shadowfell.
    * Then only the souls will remain, some reborn into divinity.
    * In the end, there will be the Far Realm.
    Last edited by Millstone85; 2016-01-13 at 03:30 PM.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilphon View Post
    The Spellplague was absolutely a Faerun specific thing. It was a thing that happened to explain the 4e changes to Faerun.

    Nobody really rules Shadowfell. It's a fairly desolate place. The Raven Queen is probably the closest thing to a ruler it has, in that she lives there and is the most broadly worshipped god there, but she's not exactly ordering people around. Vecna's the silver medalist in that area.

    Beyond the gods, there are people like Strahd around, but they have more in common with kings and lords and so forth than they do with the Archfey. There's nothing large enough to be called a country in Shadowfell, but plenty of towns and villages and even a few cities, most notably Gloomwrought.

    There are, however, lots of ruins, which often looks eerily similar to city in the corresponding place in the material plane.

    Shadar-Kai are the most prominent race living there, but all the PC races can be found there in some numbers. Undead and things with the Shadow origin will rarely seem out of place.
    are the fetchling a thing or are the exclusive to PF?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga View Post
    are the fetchling a thing or are the exclusive to PF?
    I've never heard that term, so it may be a PF thing. But it also may be a PF thing that's a DnD thing that's been renamed -- there's a fair number of those.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I've never heard that term, so it may be a PF thing. But it also may be a PF thing that's a DnD thing that's been renamed -- there's a fair number of those.
    Short answer is that Fetchlings are the humans that live on the Shadow Plane in PF. I remember there being a 4e analogue but for the life of me I can't recall the name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Shadar-Kai?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    That's the one, yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Worth noting that the Shadar-Kai are a playable race, introduced in Dragon 372. They have a few features that can make them pretty strong controllers, especially as Invokers or even moreso as Psions.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    I used the Shadowfell in my LFR mod(NETH4-1) and think I got a reasonable swing at the flavor.

    Generally speaking, Feywild and Shadowfell are both mirrors of the 'real' world, except Feywild is on the natural side and the Shadowfell is on the gloomy/dark side. Which doesn't mean there can't be very nasty evils in the Fey or pockets of good in the Shadowfell. But there's not really a ruler per say of either area, other than whoever you decide you want ruling them.

    Highly recommend reading Neil Gaiman's Sandman comic book series - lots of interesting ideas if you picture Feywild/Shadowfell being the domain of the Endless.
    Last edited by MwaO; 2016-01-13 at 10:33 PM.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga View Post
    didn't the spellplague affect all Material Planes? And don't the Feywild And Shadowfell strength into all Material Planes?
    No, it's a Forgotten Realms only thing. I don't think the idea of a multiverse joining every setting as different material planes was ever canon for 4e, and I ignore such things anyway.

    The only thing I do with Forgotten Realms is steal all the cool gods. Ilmater becomes an exarch of Pelor for example, while Llira and Eilistraee are probably in there somewhere.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    as I understand it, the Shadar-Kai were made when the gate to the Far Realm was destroyed. What would you use if you don't have the Gate in the first place in your setting?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    No, it's a Forgotten Realms only thing. I don't think the idea of a multiverse joining every setting as different material planes was ever canon for 4e, and I ignore such things anyway.

    The only thing I do with Forgotten Realms is steal all the cool gods. Ilmater becomes an exarch of Pelor for example, while Llira and Eilistraee are probably in there somewhere.
    wait, so if the spellplague doesn't exist in other settings, how do they explain the existence of the Shadowfell?

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga View Post
    as I understand it, the Shadar-Kai were made when the gate to the Far Realm was destroyed. What would you use if you don't have the Gate in the first place in your setting?
    That's Shardminds, they're made of crystal from the "Living Gate" which used to keep the Far Realms out until somedeity blew it up. Shadar-Kai are mostly human-looking, just a bit more dark and edgy. I can understand the confusion with the similar names.

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbymanga View Post
    wait, so if the spellplague doesn't exist in other settings, how do they explain the existence of the Shadowfell?
    In the beginning, there was nothingness. But that was boring, so the Primordials came along and made a world and stuff. I'm not sure what they made it out of, but some of that stuff was too bright and magicy, so they put it to one side. Other stuff was too dark and dreary, so they put that to the other side. That discarded primordial stuff became the Feywild and Shadowfell respectively, while the rest became the material place. The Primordials thought this went well enough, then wandered off to do something else.

    Then the gods came along, and found this world in three parts. They moved in, and started playing a big game of Populous, Civilisation, The Sims, or GTA depending on what type of god they were. Crafting races in their own image out of dust and mud, having their guys fight the other gods' guys, that sort of thing.

    When the Primordials came back, they found all these pesky gods and mortals on their lawn. The Primordials wanted to rip up the lawn to build something else, but the gods didn't want to lose all their toys, so they had a big fight. This went backward and forward a bunch, and a lot of stuff got broken, until the "primal spirits of the land" woke to sentience and told the Primordials and the Gods to bloody stop it, and not come back!

    And that's how the world was made. Well, the default 4e world at least. Your world can get made however you want :)

    Yeah, I'm in a weird mood right now.
    Last edited by Excession; 2016-01-13 at 11:44 PM.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    as I understand it, the Shadar-Kai were made when the gate to the Far Realm was destroyed. What would you use if you don't have the Gate in the first place in your setting?
    You're thinking of Shardminds, not Shadar-Kai. Shadar-Kai are people who moved to Shadowfell, found out that it sucked, so then the RQ changed them and taught them how to tolerate Shadowfell. They're hedonists and into BDSM. They don't have anything to do with the gate to the Far Realm.

    wait, so if the spellplague doesn't exist in other settings, how do they explain the existence of the Shadowfell?
    The same way one explains the existence of any plane. "It was created by gods or something at some point." Or, more specifically, "The Plane of Shadow is also known as Shadowfell." Shadowfell's been around just as long as the material plane in most settings. Faerun's the odd man out for feeling the need to make retcons an in-universe thing.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    And that's how the world was made.
    That is the best possible summary of that
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession
    until somedeity blew it up
    Quote Originally Posted by Excession
    And that's how the world was made.
    I might have missed these references if not for your MLP:FiM avatar.

    And I like the way you described the stories of the Living Gate and the Dawn War.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Arguably they made the world from the Elemental Chaos.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    That is the best possible summary of that
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    I might have missed these references if not for your MLP:FiM avatar.

    And I like the way you described the stories of the Living Gate and the Dawn War.
    Thanks also, and I was wondering if anyone would pick up those references.

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    Default Re: So, Shadowfell, who rules it and who lives in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I love the lore of the Dawn War, but it is so, so well hidden. There was a very-short-lived paragon game that took place in the astral sea, and it took many hours of research to put together a partial mental image of the dawn lore timeline. I did a bad job of recording what I'd learned anywhere but in that recruitment thread, which of course now I can't find.
    Is this the one you were looking for?

    Man, looking back at that 18 months later, I regret that it didn't work out, there was some really cool stuff happening there.
    Currently playing: Jathal Darsha'an; Linie

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