Noma Dumezweni as Hermione

[pendell]

As seen in Time , JK Rowling supports the casting of Noma Dumezweni as Hermione in the new play Harry Potter and the Cursed child

Rowling's comment is as follows:

Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione

So Dumbledore was gay and Hermione was black. That's certainly unexpected.

So ... comments? Reactions?

My own thought is that I grew up with LT Uhura and company. I admit it's a bit of a jump for me primarily because of Emma Watson's portrayal. If Hermione had been introduced as black from the start it wouldn't even raise an eyebrow from me. As it is .. I don't think it's so much color as it is ... well, sort of like seeing someone else play Indiana Jones besides Harrison Ford.

Is this what Doctor Who fans go through whenever the doctors change?

At any rate .. I'm sure the new Hermione, who is not Emma Watson, will take some getting used to but I'll get there. :). Looking forward to the story!

Still .. if Draco and company remain white that lends a very ugly, racial tinge to the muggle/wizard pureblood/mudblood rivalry between the two groups.

*Shrug* Doesn't really matter. Hermione as a muggle was more powerful than most purebloods, and I see no indication that magical talent, though genetic, is in any way related to skin pigmentation.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[thorgrim29]

I guess my reaction would be "why is this a big deal?". Unless it's an important part of the character I don't see why changing a character's race or gender or orientation or whatever is a big deal one way or another. Example: Making Iris black in Flash, no problem, making Batman black would make no sense since he's a WASP, or, to take a more major character Professor X could be a gay black transsexual and it wouldn't really change anything about his (well her in thas scenario) personality and role in the story as the wise mentor. So if you have an actor in mind or want to do an interpretation of a character go for it, as long as it's good I'll like it.

The flipside is that I can't for the life of me understand why representation is supposedly important. I've never had any trouble empathizing with or seeing myself in characters who are not a straight white dude (or you know, a human). I might be wrong on that particular point but also in general I think the overemphasis we're seeing more and more on what somebody is rather than who they are is hugely damaging and more than a little dehumanizing. Also I tend to find art with an agenda annoying.

So I guess you could call my stance on that whole overblown debate benign indifference.

In that specific case I find it hard to care, I'm a casual fan of the franchise at most even though I grew up with it (I remember getting the first book from my grandma when I was around 10) and I can't remember the last time I went to a theater so I doubt I'll ever watch it. Race isn't an important part of Hermione's character so as long as the actress is good I'm sure she'll do fine with the role. I would note that Rowlings is clearly pandering to the social justice crowd with her tweet (and a lot of recent ones too) and the degree to which they are eating it up is at once funny and sad to me. In the book black or asian characters are described as such very clearly, so it's obvious that the other characters are anglo-saxon, pretending otherwise just makes her look like she's adjusting her story to please her younger fans while just saying "race isn't an important part of Hermione's character, deal with it" would have been more accurate and less soap-box-y (which is totally a word)

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I can't belive anyone would notice... any of the characters can be played by any actor...

[Lethologica]

I totally believe people would notice, because the world is not color-blind, for better and worse.

I think the change is cool. Plenty of interesting material there to work with, or not, according to preference. (Also plenty of ways to screw it up, but what's life without a little risk?)

Worth noting that Rowling isn't quite right about how Hermione was or wasn't described in the books:

‘One moment, please, Macnair,’ came Dumbledore’s voice. ‘You need to sign, too.’ The footsteps stopped. Harry heaved on the rope. Buckbeak snapped his beak and walked a little faster.

Hermione’s white face was sticking out from behind a tree.

‘Harry, hurry!’ she mouthed.

[Yora]

She's not even a real wizard.

That's why these people are called actors.

[Mx.Silver]

As seen in Time , JK Rowling supports the casting of Noma Dumezweni as Hermione in the new play Harry Potter and the Cursed child

Rowling's comment is as follows:



So Dumbledore was gay and Hermione was black. That's certainly unexpected.

So ... comments? Reactions?

Well, to be honest it looks like a complete non-issue. The usual twitter idiot gallery kicking up a fuss over something largely irrelevant, then having their incoherent hooting being picked up by media outlets looking for something to fill space - you know, the usual.
Even if it wasn't it looks pretty cut and dried. This is hardly a new thing for theatrical productions, and now the author herself has said 'sure, go for it; character's race is completely incidental anyway' that's pretty much the end of the discussion.


Honestly, all creating this sort of thread is likely to do is attract a bunch of nerds giving their personal variations about how, while of course they don't have a problem with this sort of casting themselves, they can't help but see it as a worrying sign of The SJW Agenda/Political Correctness Gone Mad etc. etc.
Other people will then object to this, and from there it'll quickly devolve into the usual tribalistic battle-lines until the mods step in.

[Lethologica]

She's not even a real wizard.

That's why these people are called actors.

I agree with your stance on a black actor playing Hermione, but I'm not sure this reasoning gets us there, because applying it leads me to the conclusion that "the actor will pretend to be white just like she pretends to be a wizard, and that's okay." There's room for discussion there, but it seems tangential to what's happening.

[Flickerdart]

Worth noting that Rowling isn't quite right about how Hermione was or wasn't described in the books:

That's an expression - Rowling is saying Hermione was shocked. It can be applied to any skin colour.

[Lethologica]

That's an expression - Rowling is saying Hermione was shocked. It can be applied to any skin colour.

She wasn't shocked, there wasn't anything shocking about that moment. I agree that it's a physical indicator of anxiety that can be used for a variety of skin colors, but it's also an absolute physical description (unlike, say, 'pale'), so I don't think 'any' is correct.

Rowling is taking refuge in technicality--oh, yeah, the character I imagined as an 11-year-old me, drew as white in my sketches, approved as white on cover art and in casting, describe using the same pattern of non-description I use for my other white characters and not for my minority characters, etc, that character was definitely racially ambiguous--and she's technically wrong. I remain 100% behind the stance that black Hermione is cool, and Hermione's race is incidental to the character, and frankly I'd applaud their going for it even if Hermione's race was important to the character. I just don't think the evidence suggests Rowling had that in mind when she was writing.

[LeSwordfish]

You can equally validly say someone has gone white with fear.

I feel i should point out that Rowling has not said "Hermione was black all along" like she did with Dumbledore. She said, more or less "Hermione can just as easily be visualised as black as white". I'm all for this casting and this sort of collective headcanon: but lets not pretend Rowling planned this all along. I strongly suspect that the neutrality on Hermione's race was a coincidence.

[Kitten Champion]

Is the play about the Harry Potter characters when they're middle aged? Noma's 45 and her co-stars look reasonably similar. That could be interesting, though the descriptions of the play's premise and this seem contradictory.

As to Hermione being Black or White or whatever, it's an irrelevant interpretation. There's nothing substantive in her characterization which calls for specific race-based casting, even if you find a description about her alabaster skin or something.

Although the popular interpretation will always be White.

[Legato Endless]

Is the play about the Harry Potter characters when they're middle aged? Noma's 45 and her co-stars look reasonably similar. That could be interesting, though the descriptions of the play's premise and this seem contradictory.

Or the actor's don't match the ages of their characters. Something much less contentious in the theater as opposed to Hollywood's...less than nuanced views on age.

[Kitten Champion]

Or the actor's don't match the ages of their characters. Something much less contentious in the theater as opposed to Hollywood's...less than nuanced views on age.

I can't see how it's not a deliberate choice though, I mean the guy playing Ron has mostly gone grey.

[Iruka]

In the book black or asian characters are described as such very clearly, [...]

Are they? I am seriously asking because I was about to write a post about how barely any character is described in sufficient detail to asign them an ethnicity and now I'm doubting my memories ...

Is the play about the Harry Potter characters when they're middle aged? Noma's 45 and her co-stars look reasonably similar. That could be interesting, though the descriptions of the play's premise and this seem contradictory.

As I understodd it is about the old cast and their teenaged kids, so this age should be about right.

[thorgrim29]

Are they? I am seriously asking because I was about to write a post about how barely any character is described in sufficient detail to asign them an ethnicity and now I'm doubting my memories ...

I think so, I mainly remember the Patil sister, Cho Chang and Kingsley Shacklebolt, but a quick search shows a few others though it's not clear when they talk about the movies or the books. I admit I did read a bit of fanfic since I last read the books so I may have a bit of mental pollution to deal with.

[Brother Oni]

Still .. if Draco and company remain white that lends a very ugly, racial tinge to the muggle/wizard pureblood/mudblood rivalry between the two groups.

You mean moreso than it already is? They're already discriminating based on genetic heritage, having that more visible doesn't change the nature of it, just more relatable to a larger spectrum of people.

Given how one of the characters react to Draco's use of 'mudblood' (Ron I think), it may have well been a racial epithet beginning with 'n'.

[Lethologica]

The way Rowling presents blood purity as a stark analogy to racism and particularly the fascism/eugenics/Nazism of the early 20th century, without having anyone in the books actually compare the two directly (IIRC), is interesting. Having an adult, Muggleborn lead who's also a racial minority might lead us to more explicit portrayal of that mirror-image discrimination. That would also be interesting, but requires a fine touch; I'd be surprised if the playwright went there.

[Kitten Champion]

Were Slytherin and the Death Eaters uniformly White in the movies?

[Quild]

Well... Until now, I had only seen articles and twitts of peoples saying:
- Some people are complaining about Hermione being black, they are fascists and wrong.

But I hadn't seen people actually complaining.

pendell had a jump because of Watson's portrayal. Funny enough, the replacement of Radcliffe and Grint did not trigger such jump.
pendell's reaction therefore must be the closest one of complain that I've seen.


What about you? Have you actually seen people complaining? Like for real?
I have the feeling that it's just some way of buzzing. Hope I'm right.

[Cristo Meyers]

Were Slytherin and the Death Eaters uniformly White in the movies?

Death Eaters? I think so.

Slytherin House? No. At least one character, named in the novels and assumed to be white, was black in the films (Blaise Zabini).

[Eldan]

Were Slytherin and the Death Eaters uniformly White in the movies?

With a bit of googling, the movies apparently had "Unidentified Black Death Eater" attacking Hogwarts.

[Tokay]

Were Slytherin and the Death Eaters uniformly White in the movies?

For the most part. Which makes sense, since most death eaters come from old pureblood families that only marry each other and were founded in a time when there simply wouldn't have been any non-white people in the British Isles.

[hamishspence]

At least one character, named in the novels and assumed to be white, was black in the films (Blaise Zabini).

Novel too:

Harry glanced around at their fellow guests. He recognised a Slytherin from their year, a tall black boy with high cheekbones and long, slanting eyes; there were also two seventh-year boys Harry did not know and, squashed in the corner beside Slughorn and looking as though she was not entirely sure how she had got there, Ginny.

‘Now, do you know everyone?’ Slughorn asked Harry and Neville. ‘Blaise Zabini is in your year, of course —’

Zabini did not make any sign of recognition or greeting, nor did Harry and Neville: Gryffindor and Slytherin students loathed each other on principle.

-

Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 7 (The Slug Club)

[Cristo Meyers]

Novel too:



-

Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 7 (The Slug Club)

Huh, could've sworn he wasn't (or at least wasn't specified) in the books. I remember there was a kerfuffle in some fanfic circles when he appeared in the final movies.

[pendell]

Is the play about the Harry Potter characters when they're middle aged? Noma's 45 and her co-stars look reasonably similar. That could be interesting, though the descriptions of the play's premise and this seem contradictory.

As to Hermione being Black or White or whatever, it's an irrelevant interpretation. There's nothing substantive in her characterization which calls for specific race-based casting, even if you find a description about her alabaster skin or something.

Although the popular interpretation will always be White.

According to the synopsis , it will indeed pick up the story some decades after "Deathly Hallows" and follow Harry Potter as a mid-level government bureaucrat and his son.

It was always difficult being Harry Potter and it isn’t much easier now that he is an overworked employee of the Ministry of Magic, a husband and father of three school-age children.

While Harry grapples with a past that refuses to stay where it belongs, his youngest son Albus must struggle with the weight of a family legacy he never wanted. As past and present fuse ominously, both father and son learn the uncomfortable truth: sometimes, darkness comes from unexpected places.

I guess what makes it hard for *me* to imagine is that Hermione is an author self-insert character, so I imagined Hermione to look like a younger JK Rowling. And Emma Watson, of course, owned the part well. If Hermione was envisioned as black at the time, surely Rowling could have intervened at that time, the way she did when they were looking to cast a spouse for Dumbledore?

At any rate, this is a new envisioning of the characters and I wish Dumezweni success. While this is not the Hermione I expected, I'm going to give her the chance to prove the part is just as much hers as it was Watson's.

Respectfully,

Brian P. h

[Traab]

Meh, I think at this point she is just making crap up to get more attention. Any detail that can be considered even slightly ambivalent in her books is randomly announced to really mean something startling. And yeah, the fact that this didnt come up in casting for the movie just makes it more clear to me.

[Cristo Meyers]

Meh, I think at this point she is just making crap up to get more attention. Any detail that can be considered even slightly ambivalent in her books is randomly announced to really mean something startling. And yeah, the fact that this didnt come up in casting for the movie just makes it more clear to me.

Pretty much my only criticism too. It kinda feels like she's trying to patch over these things and sometimes that just makes them feel even more problematic.

[SaintRidley]

Still .. if Draco and company remain white that lends a very ugly, racial tinge to the muggle/wizard pureblood/mudblood rivalry between the two groups.

You know that allegory was only barely subtext, but pretty much explicit, right?

[Lord Raziere]

Meh, I think at this point she is just making crap up to get more attention. Any detail that can be considered even slightly ambivalent in her books is randomly announced to really mean something startling. And yeah, the fact that this didnt come up in casting for the movie just makes it more clear to me.

Yeah, I'm not buying this one for a second, and now its making me doubt that Dumbledore was gay.

trying to get progressive representation cred is fine, but trying to do it retroactively when the dinner you made is already eaten and done with won't get you any at all. she had her chance when he was actually writing the books, and if she really wanted to represent, she should have done it explicitly from the beginning.

[Ashen Lilies]

Yeah, I'm not buying this one for a second, and now its making me doubt that Dumbledore was gay.

trying to get progressive representation cred is fine, but trying to do it retroactively when the dinner you made is already eaten and done with won't get you any at all. she had her chance when he was actually writing the books, and if she really wanted to represent, she should have done it explicitly from the beginning.

So there's no room for any writer, ever, to look back at there stuff and go "hey, I made a mistake", and attempt to fix it?

There's plenty of writers who have looked back at older work, remarked that they made a mistake, then went about fixing it - the creators of the Avatar series have basically admitted to doing this in Legend of Korra - writing in a female protagonist, writing in a queer protagonist, writing out a terrible love triangle/relationship subplot, writing in a not-dead mother figure, writing in more stories about mental illness, writing in a non-sexualized female villain, etc. etc. to fill in all the gaps they thought they left the first few passes around. But, you know, if they wanted to take credit for all that representation, they should have done it from the start.

Facetiousness aside, Rowling's not at that stage yet - Dumbledore definitely felt like a bit of a patch-over of a missed opportunity, and will continue to do so until she actually writes stories featuring a gay Dumbledore. Hermione's a different case, however - she's not making a random announcement, she's actually making it a reality. I don't see the rhyme or reason for withholding "progressive representation cred" as you put it (ugh, by the way - could you make it sound any more dismissive?) when she's actually taking that opportunity that was missed the first time and making a second run. It's a work in progress,.