[3.5/PF] GitP Regulars as Domains And Domain Feats

[Zaydos]

If i remember correctly dnd used to be about law v chaos where chaos was very clearly wrong.

BCEMI had 3 Alignments Lawful (read good/group oriented), Neutral, and Chaos (read evil/selfish backstabber).

I think Michael Moorcock can be thanked for inspiring that, to some degree anyways.
Wait... What happened to my avatar? Oh well.

Imagine if D&D/Pathfinder focused far more on Law vs Chaos, so much so that Proteans, Azata, and Demons cooperated when faced with Devils, Archon, and Inevitables?

Canonically at least until 4e Devils and Demons are having an eternal war and this whole Good v Evil thing is secondary as far as creatures on the Outer Planes are concerned, it's a concern of mortals on the Prime. Archons have been known to send armies to help the Baatezu, supply them with a steady flow of demon-slaying weapons, and even turn a blind eye to their shenanigans on Prime worlds for this reason. Eladrins go out and assassinate Baatezu to help the Tanar'ri. As far as the Outer Planes are concerned it is a world of Law vs Chaos.

And it goes back further than Moorcock, he stole it from Poul Anderson, and Poul Anderson's sources were probably real world myths (he translated sagas in addition to being a big name in early fantasy and one of Gygax's admitted sources of inspiration specifically mentioned for alignments) and seriously I could probably write a big thing about the theme of Law v Chaos in Norse, Greek, and Egyptian mythology, touching lightly on chaos in Summerian mythology, but hands are tied. Short version is most* myths Order = Good, Chaos = Bad but ultimately the root of existence.

*Of those listed this isn't true in one of the 4 to my admittedly limited knowledge.

[Seto]

Without chaos the universe cannot function. It will simply stagnate an become a very boring place, devoid of life. It will simply exist with no choice, the only movement from automated structures and constructs.

Well... yeah. This is what "functioning" means to a Modron. To us it's hell, of course.

In case I haven't made it clear : I didn't say that pure Law was better than pure Chaos. We need both of those, but in reasonable proportions.

[Illven]

And onto another domain.

Who's the lucky individual today?

Emperor Tippy! YAYYYY!

Tippyverse domain

Granted power. You create traps at half price.

1 Silent image
2 Rope trick
3 Create food and water
4 Minor creation
5 Fabricate
6 Wall of salt
7 Teleport greater
8 Polymorph any object
9 Teleportation circle


Tippyverse devotion

Granted benefit. Once per day, you may recall an already cast spell, and regain the ability to cast it again.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Well... yeah. This is what "functioning" means to a Modron. To us it's hell, of course.

In case I haven't made it clear : I didn't say that pure Law was better than pure Chaos. We need both of those, but in reasonable proportions.

Yeah, pure chaos sucks. Everything ends up becoming completely uniform as a result of it so it kind of defeats itself. That is why you need organized chaos.

[Draconium]

Yeah, pure chaos sucks. Everything ends up becoming completely uniform as a result of it so it kind of defeats itself. That is why you need organized chaos.

I just stopped in to point out that is both an oxymoron and completely accurate (at least, in context).

[Marlowe]

Chaos always defeats order. It is better organized.

[Zaydos]

Chaos always defeats order. It is better organized.

In D&D this may be true, Orcus did almost completely destroy the iconic race of Law leaving it in disorganized shambles and civil war, and the slaad lords maintain near absolute control over the slaad so at least at the beginning of 3.0 Chaos was better organized than Order.

[Seto]

Yeah, pure chaos sucks. Everything ends up becoming completely uniform as a result of it so it kind of defeats itself. That is why you need organized chaos.

Oooh, I think I finally get what you mean. I'd argue that it's not the same "uniformity". Pure Chaos is infinite diversity in the form of indifferentiation (a big soup with infinite ingredients, if you will), while pure Law is a finite and definite Oneness.
But yeah, even life itself and the permanence of individual beings is a departure from pure Chaos and a concession to Law. So in the end I guess we agree on that. My original point was just that Slaadi are not so badly written

In D&D this may be true, Orcus did almost completely destroy the iconic race of Law leaving it in disorganized shambles and civil war, and the slaad lords maintain near absolute control over the slaad so at least at the beginning of 3.0 Chaos was better organized than Order.

The Slaad Lords are not Lords in any Lawful sense (command and allegiance), though. They're just powerful beings who directly exert their will on lesser beings. At least that's how I understand it. But I don't know 3.0 well, only 3.5.

[Marlowe]

Spoiler: SCHGLITCH

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[NeoPhoenix0]

Oooh, I think I finally get what you mean. I'd argue that it's not the same "uniformity". Pure Chaos is infinite diversity in the form of indifferentiation (a big soup with infinite ingredients, if you will), while pure Law is a finite and definite Oneness.
But yeah, even life itself and the permanence of individual beings is a departure from pure Chaos and a concession to Law. So in the end I guess we agree on that. My original point was just that Slaadi are not so badly written

Imagine the end destination of a universe that becomes pure law or chaos.

Law:
the universe becomes an unchanging museum there is little to no change in anything. If a person walked into such a world they would experience a practically silent ghost town of a universe yet nothing would have changed from before law took over. The only change is nothing changes.

Chaos:
everything changes all the time. Therefore entropy is constantly increasing overall, especially when you factor in the destructive side of chaos. This leads to the universe becoming uniform. gradually all the change will cancel itself out and the universe will get uniform temperature and density. This will be an early heat death. It is chaos own nature to lead to its self destruction.

This is a completely different outcome than law but inevitably the universe is handed over to law slowly until it collapses on itself.

[Zaydos]

The Slaad Lords are not Lords in any Lawful sense (command and allegiance), though. They're just powerful beings who directly exert their will on lesser beings. At least that's how I understand it. But I don't know 3.0 well, only 3.5.

One it was mostly going along with a joke

More seriously 3.0/3.5 has 1 mention of them that I am aware of in the Manual of the Planes (they tinkered with the spawning stone limiting the slaad forms), it is still more control over the slaad than the modrons at the beginning of 3.0 (total, senseless civil war). I mean the slaad lords applied a lasting leash to the slaad to maintain their power. The modrons have one of the 4 secondi splitting off a hunk of their race to fight the rest because it turned evil.

Oh yeah there was an LE Secundus, almost destroyed the species. We can blame the Orcus dies and is reborn modules (I need to play those at some point because, condensing what I've heard about them by the guy who wrote most of Planescape: Great adventures, awesome to play, but they should never have become part of the canon metaplot).

I am more likely to run a game where you are agents of a traitorous Lord of the Nine and the final showdown would involve destroying a powerful avatar of Asmodeus and some macguffin magic to help your lord over throw Asmodeus.

[Marlowe]

Spoiler: Unleash the puns!

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[Marlowe]

*BUMP?*

Spoiler: THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!

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I LIED!!!

[LoyalPaladin]

Hey Snow, you should update the OP with my sweeps.

[illyahr]

I don't even know who's left after Zaydos went on a creation bender.

[Amphetryon]

I don't even know who's left after Zaydos went on a creation bender.

*Waves* There are a few of us so-called regulars still around under the permapermissions flag.

[Zaydos]

I don't even know who's left after Zaydos went on a creation bender.

Amphetryon would be the one person who has posted in this thread who is left iirc.

And yeah the permapermission thread.

Or you could double up on someone, show your version of an IZ or Ilven domain.

[IZ42]

I'm sorry Zaydos, I wanted to make a domain for you, but I wasn't sure how to go about it ;-;

[Zaydos]

I'm sorry Zaydos, I wanted to make a domain for you, but I wasn't sure how to go about it ;-;

Don't sweat it.

Though now that you've got me thinking about it myself, there's the obvious way (Homebrew) which is what my go to reaction would be, and which Draconium did.

There's also the dragon fixation, and I apparently have a thing for necrobotany, and druidry. I mean I've chosen an undead part plant dragon which casts druid spells in addition to wizard spells as my representative mask avatar. Or else if you remember some trivia from around these threads my favorite class features are Familiar and Animal Companion (the Familiar Domain was very much me, the writer/player). Then there's that I apparently have a thing for vestiges, I'm sure something could be done with that, but not the best for a domain (I have made ... 3? base classes that involve vestiges, and um... 50 vestiges counting the Hitchhiker's Guide which for some reason isn't in my sig). I really have a thing for Binders it seems It might be possible to capitalize on my love of the Inner Planes with an Inner Planes domain... that should exist in general... hmm...

Edit: Ooh, I'm also arrogant with a side of contemptuous jerk at times. I mean I try to pull it back but an Arrogance Domain could be a fun take.

[Snowbluff]

Hey Snow, you should update the OP with my sweeps.

Nonsense. Why would anyone do that?

[NeoPhoenix0]

Nonsense. Why would anyone do that?

Raisins...

[Draconium]

Raisins...

... And that's why you're Chaotic.

[Zaydos]

*pauses from making a Chaos based class to check thread*

Interesting.

[NeoPhoenix0]

I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of raisins.

[Xuldarinar]

Whats this about Craisins?

[Marlowe]

Raisins are much-maligned and harmless. Sultanas, on the other hand, are abominations.

Spoiler: Just what you wanted!

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Lots of close-ups of Sarissa. That's what everyone wanted. Right?

Next time this thread, or the next one, slows down I'm making Sailor dolls for ALL of you.

[LoyalPaladin]

Nonsense. Why would anyone do that?

I mean... I could just not sweep the threads anymore...

[Red Fel]

Next time this thread, or the next one, slows down I'm making Sailor dolls for ALL of you.

I would pay to see that.¹

I feel almost compelled to do "GitP Regulars as Theme Songs" just to break up the quiet, but that could go to an unpleasant place fairly quickly.

¹ I would not.

EDIT: Side note, Snow, you really need to reopen that anime thread. Got a bunch of new recs. Short form is my new friend.

[LoyalPaladin]

I feel almost compelled to do "GitP Regulars as Theme Songs" just to break up the quiet, but that could go to an unpleasant place fairly quickly.

GitP has been fairly quiet lately...

[Draconium]

I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of raisins.

But... but... Raisins are the essence of chaos!

*goes onto long, rambling, nonsensical rant about dried fruit and alignment*

GitP has been fairly quiet lately...

I've noticed... I've just been sort of hanging around, waiting for a new thread to pop up.