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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground


    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy the Dark Vengeance starter box.

    What's Dark Vengeance?
    Dark Vengeance contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    It contains roughly 850 Points worth of Dark Angels. However, it only contains around 500 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Of course, if you're playing DV as it's meant to be played, you're never using all of the models at once so the points difference doesn't really matter.

    However, in practical terms, the Dark Angels are only barely legal and lack enough Scoring models. And, while the CSMs are legal, they're almost 300 points behind and lack anything that packs a decent punch. You will also need the relevant Codecies for your faction as it will dramatically change the way you play the game as opposed to using the reference sheets that come with DV.

    How much does it cost?
    The Dark Vengeance box, one Codex, one other box of your choosing, and a Starter Paint Set costs you about the same as a Playstation 3 and one game*. In both cases, you'd be good to go for about a month. This author thinks of most boxes as console games, and Flyers and Land Raiders are the AAA-Title Collector's Edition game. The difference being that in this hobby you can use all your 'games' at the same time, and continuously.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    *Priced in $AU where everything is more expensive - although the ratios should be the same.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army.
    Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    There are ways that you can play 200, 400 and 500 point games using altered rules. But, if you want to play the game as-is, the recommended minimum is 750.

    The game 'balances out' at 1500. Most games should be played at this level since pretty much all armies get a fair shake.

    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1250 with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Up to 12 pieces is the official word. However, that can get crowded pretty fast if you've got big pieces.

    A better guide is roughly anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board.

    I don't like using Special Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Special Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Special Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Special Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    Depends on your army, and what units you already have. Ask in the thread.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Which army is the best?
    That's a loaded question. It depends what points limit you're playing at (at 1500 there really isn't one). But, there is no 'best' army. Plasma beats Terminators beats Mech beats Plasma. 40K is much like Rock, Paper, Scissors. None of the armies are 'best', as each army can be countered. Some armies are better than others, but there is no 'best'.

    However, as you play the game you will notice that your Codex doesn't have the units that beat another Codex. That's not to say that you haven't won any games, and it's not to say that your opponents' armies haven't lost several games to armies that just aren't yours. It just means that your army can't beat your opponent's army with what you've got available to you. That's why Allies need to be in the game.

    Wait, so there are bad Codecies?
    Yes. But, every Codex should be usable between 1000-1500 points. So, no matter what army you pick, you'll be okay within those points limits, or, you should be. If you find that your Codex/Army isn't doing well against certain opponents, and there's nothing you can do; You may need Allies.

    Helpful Army Building Guides


    Previous Threads


    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
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    Cheesegear is awesome

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Last time in the 40K Thread...

    Everyone was complaining about the new Wulfen.

    ...We now return you to your regular 40K Thread.

    To start off the new thread;

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    Remembering that I'm a terrible person.
    Why Collect Necrons? They're easy to paint!
    So that's why I edge-highlighted all my models and didn't drybrush once.


    This week I need to finish my Stormraven for February's paint comp, and then after that, I need to finish my Strike Force Alpha, which I was supposed to have done by Boxing Day over a month ago. Then after that, I suppose I should start painting my Thunderhawk, which is now just over a year old.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
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    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
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    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    You /monster/!
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Ah, new thread smell. Mmmmmm.

    So does anyone have a link to the Wulfen rules?
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Remembering that I'm a terrible person.
    Why Collect Necrons? They're easy to paint!
    So that's why I edge-highlighted all my models and didn't drybrush once.
    They do look amazing for a rank&file soldier.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Those tomb blades turned out really nice, even if the model is one of my least favourite that GW makes.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Anyone going or following the next round of news due to come out from the Heresy Weekender next week?

    Rumours point to new Rites of War for all existing legions, some new generic ones, and a paid entry beta test for White Scars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels legion rules (but no units, characters)

    Rules due for Mastodon (Super Heavy Transport designed to melt a hole in a curtain wall before opening up and disgorging 40 marines and act as a bunker should it get wrecked), the Leviathan Dread (hopefully with a Fixed Grav Bombard) and Atrapos (heavy mechanicum knight with knight scale Grav weapon which can make a vortex and a super lascutter which can shoot out a strength d template.) also, Delegatus and Praevian (hopefully fixed) to be in print, as well as another, possibly 'Heraldor' being a Banner Bearer equivalent, so you can now have Phoenix Terms with a Banner because cool.

    Rules for Blackshields (marines of various legions who give up their colours for reasons because and then become bad ass for no real reason other than a new paint job), Shattered Legions, and another one.

    Campaign, likely includes SoH vs White Scars, and other shattered legions including Tybalt Marr, and Meduson. Garro as well, as other knights Errant.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Those tomb blades turned out really nice, even if the model is one of my least favourite that GW makes.
    The kit made me furious. I hate it so much.

    "Oh, making a Kill Team? Pretty sure you can fit like 8 or 9 Tomb Blades in 200 Points."
    Would I have to put together and paint another six?
    "Well, yeah..."
    Hard pass.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    I concur on the horribleness of Tomb Blade assembly. It is the one thing that keeps me from running max tomb blades in my decurion.
    Buying a magical sword-

    (Merchant)- This blade has bathed in the blood of dragons!

    (PC)- But it's USED!

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Blackhawk748's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    While i've never assembled a Tomb Blade, it doesn't look fun. Reminds me of Ork Trukks, i did not enjoy putting those together.

    Speaking of models we dont like, ive never been a fan of the Chaos Spawn kits, i think they look really lame honestly. So i've been rooting around on Reaper and i have a list of things i think would make decent Chaos Spawn. Now im not 100% sure on size, but they should all be in the ballpark.

    Shadow Demon, Shade Beast, Gug, Eldritch Horror, Bathalian Primarch, Bathalian Centurion, Devourer, Hooked Hulk, Bageera, Demon Ape, Faceless Horror, Hooked Terror, Dung Monster

    Now, if you dont think any of these things has enough tentacles/horns, you can use this to give them more.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2016-02-02 at 04:01 PM.
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Really? I found the first one confusing but now I have 15 and I had fun with them. Only frustrating thing is getting the pilot to line up with the tube things but the rest is fine imo.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    While i've never assembled a Tomb Blade, it doesn't look fun. Reminds me of Ork Trukks, i did not enjoy putting those together.

    Speaking of models we dont like, ive never been a fan of the Chaos Spawn kits, i think they look really lame honestly. So i've been rooting around on Reaper and i have a list of things i think would make decent Chaos Spawn. Now im not 100% sure on size, but they should all be in the ballpark.

    Shadow Demon, Shade Beast, Gug, Eldritch Horror, Bathalian Primarch, Bathalian Centurion, Devourer, Hooked Hulk, Bageera, Demon Ape, Faceless Horror, Hooked Terror, Dung Monster

    Now, if you dont think any of these things has enough tentacles/horns, you can use this to give them more.
    Those not-Illithid Bathalians are awesome. Consider them stolen.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    I've always thought the Tomb Blade model was pretty damn ugly, and didn't really fit in with the general Necron style. Luckilly, a quick google turns up a hundred different conversion guides. I rather like the one which turns a pair of Deathmark synaptic disintegraters into a Star Wars speeder-bike.
    Looking back on sanity from the other side, and laughing really loudly

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    LeSwordfish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Good news! Games workshop are now using a secondary seller to offer mugs, journals, and cushions with their brand.

    Yes, of course it's wierder than that. The secondary seller they're using is DreamsAway, a spiritual/clairvoyant seller.

    DreamsAway was established in October 2014 and is co-owned by Daniel and Bradley Woodroffe-Hill, who are both clairvoyant mediums with the ability to see, hear and sense spirit. DreamsAway was initially established with the sole purpose of offering spiritual readings to the general public through both social media and email.
    Although we are clairvoyant mediums and spiritualists, we don't just stop at spiritual goods - Nemesis Now have an excellent contract in place with Games Workshop to create this exclusively licensed materials for us to sell to the trade. Spirit know just how important it is for us to have the things we crave whilst we go about our lives on the Earth Plane, so this is why they have told us to jump on this opportunity and have available these items on our store.
    I shall be nice and play by the rules and not snark about Spirit, instead pointing out that this might be the most scattergun GW's approach to business has ever been. I love it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Um... Just... What?

    I'm just baffled at this. I mean, cool, but... Why them?
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidhawk View Post
    I've always thought the Tomb Blade model was pretty damn ugly, and didn't really fit in with the general Necron style. Luckilly, a quick google turns up a hundred different conversion guides. I rather like the one which turns a pair of Deathmark synaptic disintegraters into a Star Wars speeder-bike.
    That speeder bike is sweet, I love these:

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Really? I found the first one confusing but now I have 15 and I had fun with them. Only frustrating thing is getting the pilot to line up with the tube things but the rest is fine imo.
    You're a crazy person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You're a crazy person.
    It doesn't mean he's crazy, just that he's a Tomb World Assembly Line.
    The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep.~ That's your horoscope for today.

    01001110011001010111001001100100

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You're a crazy person.
    Well known fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
    It doesn't mean he's crazy, just that he's a Tomb World Assembly Line.
    Beep boop I live to serve.


    So apparently the WD says that one of the formations for Daemons will be 4 Princes. Nothing about the rules yet, but I can't see anyone taking that is anything outside of Apoc or a really fluffy list, just a lot of points into 4 models. Unless they like get gear/MLs for free and all have EW or something.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Actually, I see myself never taking it because (in my local meta) it will be way too powerful.

    And, well... See thread title.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    You guys remember that flying circus is still a thing in some metas, yeah? One of the "limitations" of Nurgle flying circus was taking a GUO, that may be gone now (though unfortunately it's far more likely that it'll be one of each god).

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    True, I guess we'll have to see what the rest are and what the Core requirements are for it. Flying Circus suffers from low model count and inability to score when they're forced to swoop, which has become more of a liability as of late.

    Still, if that's your jam, they've got it in spades now.

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    So apparently the WD says that one of the formations for Daemons will be 4 Princes. Nothing about the rules yet, but I can't see anyone taking that is anything outside of Apoc or a really fluffy list, just a lot of points into 4 models. Unless they like get gear/MLs for free and all have EW or something.
    Eh? As a Formation, I can easily see myself putting in four 'Princes into a Chaos Marine list. For actual Chaos Daemons though? Probably not.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Ah, new thread smell. Mmmmmm.

    So does anyone have a link to the Wulfen rules?


    From B&C via spikybits.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    So, I just played my first 40k game in a while, at 1000 points. I brought a fairly diverse list, with a Commander with Drone Controller, a unit of five Pirahnas and a Riptide as the notable features. My friend brought two units of grots, a Big Mek, and a Stompa. We ended up playing the scouring. Hightlights of the match include the Riptide managing to lock combat with the Stompa for a fun turn cycle and two Fire Warriors charging into a unit of nine grots and a runtherd, winning combat, and sweeping them off the four point objective for the win.
    Avatar made by Flumphy. Praise his name!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ruby34 View Post
    My friend brought two units of grots, a Big Mek, and a Stompa.
    Wow bringing a stompa to a 1000pts game is pretty full on, I am glad you won the game because there is not much to can do to a stompa that is repairing hullpoints. Did he has grot riggers as well?
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  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ruby34 View Post
    So, I just played my first 40k game in a while, at 1000 points. I brought a fairly diverse list, with a Commander with Drone Controller, a unit of five Pirahnas and a Riptide as the notable features. My friend brought two units of grots, a Big Mek, and a Stompa. We ended up playing the scouring. Hightlights of the match include the Riptide managing to lock combat with the Stompa for a fun turn cycle and two Fire Warriors charging into a unit of nine grots and a runtherd, winning combat, and sweeping them off the four point objective for the win.
    Tau CC OP, nerf plox!

    Sounds like and interesting game for sure.

    As for taking a Stompa in 1K, well, he's playing orks vs tau, what else is he supposed to do?

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Tau CC OP, nerf plox!
    I've personally seen it done multiple times vs. Imperial Knights. Stomps go at I1, Fire Warriors with EMP Grenades go at I2. Fire Warriors win because Haywire spam. Imperial Knights also have real Chainswords that go at Initiative. Stompas don't. Stompas are I1. If you Charge a Stompa with close to 30 Fire Warriors, you'll win combat against a Stompa without even taking a hit.

    As for taking a Stompa in 1K, well, he's playing orks vs tau, what else is he supposed to do?
    Take 'Eavy Armour, Painboyz and Force Fields.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Take 'Eavy Armour, Painboyz and Force Fields.
    Painboyz and 'eavy Armor make a big difference.....
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXV: Friends Are Better Than Wraithknights.

    IA Riptide ignores everything bar the 5++, everything else ignores the 4+ Armour. 5++/5+++ might work for wraithknights, not so much for Boyz.

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