Real-world setting question

[Telonius]

This isn't so much about arms and armor, but about life expectancy. Just how old would people in medieval times get to be? I've heard the general consensus is that the average life expectancy in medieval times was something in the 30s. I also know there were some old kings and queens, but as elites they'd have access to better food than other people. But I've also heard that the infant mortality rates were pretty terrible back then, so that might completely throw off the average. So, all of you statistics and history buffs out there, does anyone know of a source for median (not average) age, excluding infant mortality, for the Middle Ages? Just how many wise old geezers should there be in my town?

[Matthew]

30 is the average life expectancy and, as you say, it takes into account infant mortality. Frankly, though, the data just doesn't exist in a complete enough form to say anything for absolutely sure. What I am given to understand is that the natural life span of a Medieval person is not significantly shorter than that of a Modern person. 'Three score and ten' is the usual lifespan given [i.e. 70]. Also, don't be misled by the Industrial Revolution, which has good data, but is a very poor comparison to Medieval life becuase the conditions in the cities were so much worse.

As I recall, the Ancient Greeks considered soomething like 30, 35 or 40 (can't remember which) to be the point at which a man is at his full mental agility and capable of his greatest achievements. That should tell you something about life expectancy without disease or foul play during that period.

Here's a Wiki Article on the subject: Life expectancy

[Edit] Of course, in the Magical Medieval Societies of Dungeons & Dragons, the historical index (however complete) is going to be of limited usefulness.

[bosssmiley]

The Romans considered a man to be at the peak of his intellectual abilities at the age of 42, the age at which he traditionally stood for election as consul. After the year of his consulship he was considered an honoured hasbeen unless he was later elected censor or appointed dictator.

As for pre-modern mortality rates. The scary figure I heard once was that life expectancy at birth in a pre-modern society was/is around 35 years.
If you survive the first year of life, then add another ten years to that figure.
If you survive to age 10, you still have, on average, about 45 years left to live.
In medically backward cultures, infant and child mortality = hecatomb.

[Matthew]

Not quite Bosssmiley. After his year in office, a Roman Consul became a Proconsul, an arguably more politically powerful position for many.

[Indon]

The biggest factor in cutting down human population at the time would have been disease. The more often your villagers bathe in the nearby river (and the fewer villages they have up the river!), the better off they'll be.

As such, you'll find yourself with much shorter life expectancies in disease-ridden areas such as cities (especially those lacking a sewer system). The more and fresher the water access, the better off they'll be.

Swampy or other exceedingly wet climates generally breed more disease-carrying pests, so that's another factor.

So, while life may be horrible and short in a swampy, inland, bustling city that uses river water that was used by 20 towns upstream, the small mountain village that uses clean (albeit slightly sulphurous) spring water that flows off to eventually become a river may well have as many geezers as the village food supply can sustain.

[Matthew]

Acme was the word I was looking for; still cannot find the article that I was thinking of. Yeah, you especially don't want to be working anywhere near a lead mine...

[Telonius]

The biggest factor in cutting down human population at the time would have been disease. The more often your villagers bathe in the nearby river (and the fewer villages they have up the river!), the better off they'll be.

As such, you'll find yourself with much shorter life expectancies in disease-ridden areas such as cities (especially those lacking a sewer system). The more and fresher the water access, the better off they'll be.

Swampy or other exceedingly wet climates generally breed more disease-carrying pests, so that's another factor.

So, while life may be horrible and short in a swampy, inland, bustling city that uses river water that was used by 20 towns upstream, the small mountain village that uses clean (albeit slightly sulphurous) spring water that flows off to eventually become a river may well have as many geezers as the village food supply can sustain.

Swampy inland cities, bad for my health. Good thing I'm in the modern world, Washington DC would have been murder back then! Thanks for all of the information, everybody.

[bosssmiley]

Not quite Bosssmiley. After his year in office, a Roman Consul became a Proconsul, an arguably more politically powerful position for many.

Oh, well, if you want to bring obscure historical bywaters like the career of Gaius Julius Caesar and such into it, then yes.

A recommended book (and I think the source of my life expectancy factoid): "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Although not as colossally replete with win as David Landes' "Wealth and Poverty of Nations" "GG&S" has loads of interesting historical stuff about diseases and life expectancies in pre-modern societies. I was particularly disgusted/intrigued by his assertion that the death rate in pre-modern European cities due to disease, poor hygiene, bad water, tainted food, etc. was such that cities could only maintain (let alone increase) their populations by a constant influx of immigrants from less polluted and diseased rural areas.

(how healing magic and such would affect the above situation I don't know for sure. Jared never released a "d20 edition" appendix for his book. Stoooopid academics, missing what's really important! )

Also useful, although a bit of a heavier read: "Of Use to All Mankind" by Roy Porter. Potted history of medicine from about 3000BC.

[Kurald Galain]

Life expectancy went way down hill during the industrial age. People tend to assume that in the middle ages and early renaissance it was worse than that, when in fact it was quite a lot better. The quality of life in factory work should be a clue.