Evil Campaign

[AriLance]

I'm DMing an evil campaign with three LE, two NE, and one CE, and it seems like the LE characters are taking over the game. The LE characters want to play the game a certain way but I'm not sure the other three characters are particularly enjoying it.

Does anyone have any specific examples of where to find evil campaign stories? I feel as if I am not running the campaign correctly since this is my first time doing an evil campaign. Can anyone point me to some specific resources and not general advice?

[Geddy2112]

Pathfinder Way of the Wicked is a very solid evil campaign module-even if you don't want to run it, it has a lot of advice and good scenarios for evil characters.

I don't even think this is an evil problem though-half characters working tightly in unison, and the other players disagreeing but not putting forth unified opposition means the unified half gets their way.

[AriLance]

Thank you, I will definitely check that module out!

Yes, it is partly because of that as well. The LE party members are the more experienced players, and so I think the new players are intimidated and just following along with it.

[Kaveman26]

City state of the Enigmatic Overgnome is linked in my signature. Was a shorter pvp heavy evil campaign.

Cattle Driving necromancers is a much more cohesive group evil campaign still on the front page of forum.

Both can be good guides or cautionary tales of evil in action.

Otherwise read the jhereg novels for a good gauge of "evil" stories, author is Stephen Brust. Main protagonist is an assassin and mid level crime boss.

General tips:

If you venture into the players going after one or another then you have to hope they can separate game from real life and not have hard feelings.

Be up to speed on poisons and evil/necro spells

[Sredni Vashtar]

In fiction, the antagonists (which are where the evil characters often sit) are the proactive ones in the story, while the protagonists (those goody-two shoes) are reactive. I've long thought that allowing evil PCs to be proactive is the best way to go. (I've tossed around the idea of an evil Supers campaign with the premise that the PCs are supervillains with one goal: kill the Justice League/Avengers/equivalent hero team. The rest would be up to them to scheme.)

[endur]

Way of the Wicked looks awesome. I'm going to have to buy that module series.

My comments on evil campaigns after having run one that lasted over a year.

1) Don't allow PvP where characters can fight/steal/etc against each other. PvP ends campaigns fast.

2) Optionally allow minor PvP where you can give the other players minor penalties in exchange for receiving a minor bonus. The 4e Rise of the Underdark had the Drow Treachery cards that allowed you to get a +1 on a die roll in exchange for giving one of your buddies a -1 (and other similar cards). Minor PvP would be ok.

3) An evil campaign can be structured somewhat similarly to a good campaign, but will be different.

4) Do the Evil PCs have evil quest givers?

5) Does the evil party have a leader that can mastermind a plot? For example, do they have a joker who could figure out how to rob a bank (with a more complicated plan than breaking in and entering)?


Also, decide what "evil" means in the context of your party.
Examples of Evil:

1) Rogues of Central City: Evil is robbing banks and avoiding the flash.
2) Drow House: Evil is not caring about non-drow (drow are important, others exist to be enslaved).
3) Demon Summoner: Evil is bringing demons into the world.
4) Secret Police: Use any means necessary to subdue the rebels.
etc.

Your party may have a common view of what evil is, even if some members deviate from the view.

[Geddy2112]

Thank you, I will definitely check that module out!

Way of the Wicked looks awesome. I'm going to have to buy that module series.

I highly recommend it-it is a bit scripted (like any modelue) and it can drag a bit at times, but it has a great premise and it shows how to make a very functional evil campaign. It has entire sections on how to get the group going and how to avoid the classic pitfalls of evil murderhobodom.

If you venture into the players going after one or another then you have to hope they can separate game from real life and not have hard feelings.

1) Don't allow PvP where characters can fight/steal/etc against each other. PvP ends campaigns fast.

2) Optionally allow minor PvP where you can give the other players minor penalties in exchange for receiving a minor bonus. The 4e Rise of the Underdark had the Drow Treachery cards that allowed you to get a +1 on a die roll in exchange for giving one of your buddies a -1 (and other similar cards). Minor PvP would be ok.

In my experience, PvP does not come up as often in an all evil party than a mixed party. Knowing that your ally will not show you any mercy and kill you the minute you try and screw with them is a pretty strong deterrent. That said, have a structure for PvP- constant backstabbing and crap like that generally wrecks campaigns, but allowing two characters to resort to lethal force can work. In one evil campaign, our LE blackguard and our CE magus rarely saw eye to eye, and had a physical fight every few sessions. The blackguard won every time, and preferred to heal the magus and have him alive again to suffer more pain than to just end him. Eventually we started gambling and holding underground illegal fights and making tons of money. The magus finally won, but spared the blackguard from death, so that he could constantly mock and belittle him. Eventually the magus did die, but until that point we managed to have PvP work as both a way to solve their problems, and further the party goals.

4) Do the Evil PCs have evil quest givers?

The quest might not be given voluntarily, but there should be quests they can discover and go on. Until they are high level, there are always bigger fish in the pond.

5) Does the evil party have a leader that can mastermind a plot? For example, do they have a joker who could figure out how to rob a bank (with a more complicated plan than breaking in and entering)?

As long as your group is not all psycho murderhobos, somebody is going to be pragmatic long term evil.

Also, decide what "evil" means in the context of your party.
Examples of Evil:
1) Rogues of Central City: Evil is robbing banks and avoiding the flash.
2) Drow House: Evil is not caring about non-drow (drow are important, others exist to be enslaved).
3) Demon Summoner: Evil is bringing demons into the world.
4) Secret Police: Use any means necessary to subdue the rebels.
etc.

This, and decide why everyone is evil. Few people are evil just because-most people have a very good reason they use dark magic, or kill, or steal, or whatever.

The LE party members are the more experienced players, and so I think the new players are intimidated and just following along with it.

This is common in any gaming group with players of mixed experience. Might want to talk as a group about including and showing the newbies the ropes. Time will fix this easy enough.

[Solidarity]

You'd probably taken a look at them already, but in the event you haven't, I'd recommend reading a bit from The Book of Vile Darkness, Heroes of Horror, and Libris Mortis if they have any undead affiliation. BoVD is a personal favorite of mine when it comes to designing BBEG's and it's fairly useful for evil campaigns. HoH is a good idea to show the PC's themselves if they need some inspiration as to how to act as NE or CE.

[Felyndiira]

I want to point out one thing about Way of the Wicked, however. While it is definitely a great campaign, the way it "reigns in" the evil characters is by putting them on a leash and dragging them along on it. While most campaigns do this in some form, WotW is a very literal example, as the PCs are pretty much...

Spoiler: WotW

Show

...completely bound by an Asmodean contract for most of the campaign, and have to go to point A and do thing B because the contract holder wants them to.

While it works well in the campaign, the rails are very noticeable and the principle is thus harder to apply in more general campaigns.

[Kyberwulf]

Well. That's the way it would work out really. Neutral Evil characters need a system in place so they can bend it to gain them more power. That is how they operate. They tend to not make rules or hold Supreme authority because it's easier to manipulate from the shadows. Chaotic people tend to just want to destroy things. They tend to not do much planning.

Lawful Evil people will make it so the other alignments can thrive. They provide the structure needed for NE people to do their thing. For the most part. They will also provide the way for the CE characters to unleash their rage. Of course, their is going to be friction, because that's how evil works. How do I get more power to serve my needs, and why do I have to listen to these guys above me. No one is going to be particularly happy though. Because no one usually has the same definition of evil. They either have to grin and bare it for the moments they can do their wickedness.. or probably play something else.

[hamishspence]

I could see some CE villains being planners - but their plans being weird and wacky.

[Âmesang]

My longest running character is Chaotic Evil (based on every in-character alignment test I've ever taken), and she certainly has plans and a long-term goal—not just to become a powerful sorcerer, but to achieve the magical might of her ancestors, the Mages of Power of the Suel Imperium… including discovering the long-lost secrets of the Invoked Devastation.

Not that she'd openly admit to any of this, but I guess that's part of the reason sorcerers have Bluff as a class-skill.

I see her with the Chaotic label 'cause I imagine her as less the "I want to rule the world" type and more "I just want to do whatever I please." After all, you don't need to be a king to be rich, and then there's all of that responsibility… I suppose if not Chaotic Evil, though, she'd be Neutral Evil "at best," a cunning and clever (though perhaps a touch delusional) manipulator who enjoys twisting people to her will and whims, either performing enough acts of goodness to keep the common folk from getting too suspicious about her intentions, or tricking them into acts of vile depravity, turning them on each other and eating away at the moral fabric of society. A 16 Intelligence/9 Wisdom should be enough to understand that there's safety in numbers (better to aid the party than stab 'em in the back) and that there's always a bigger fish (blasting innocent townsfolk for the lulz is a great way to call to attention the king's half-dragon, antimagic field-protected knight).

So just 'cause one's evil doesn't mean one can't behave, so long as the minimal act of behaving is enough to keep one alive and healthy, keep one free to plan one's secret stratagems of doom, flashing a pretty smile while inwardly thinking of everyone around you as nothing more than tools to be used, pawns on some cosmic game of chess… meat shields to draw away enemy fire (and, hey, the more she helps her allies and keeps 'em strong, the more attacks they can draw away from her). In the end you have to look out for number one, and if that means playing nice so as to not be ganged up on by the city guards, so be it.

…at least until you're capable of casting country-leveling spells.

(Though aside from having a quasit familiar and commanding some undead here and there, I think her most evil act to date was tricking a supposed enemy into drinking acid.)

[Bohandas]

The Book of Vile Darkness supplement for 3e has advice for evil campaigns

EDIT:
Also Lords of Madness, Fiendish Codex 1, Fiendish Codex 2, and, as has been said previously, Leroes of Horror and Libris Mortis

[GrayDeath]

Youve been given a lot of good reading material and advice, but I`ll still add mys 2 cents.

As my first major campaign was somewhat evil (not at start but it turned out the easiest way for the characters to battle an Evil that would within a few decades destroy all life on the planet was joining with another evil), let me give you the three most important things I lerned during it.

1: Note the goals of the more long term oriented characters, and be sure to have them "ready", be it to steer them a bit if necessary or to be aware of where they`re going to aim next if not.
It helps a LOT, especially if the campaign gets a bit freer.

2.: Avoid "Just for the lulz-Evil" at all cost. Its fine as enemies, it NEVER works in a real campaign. As your LE players are already dominating it seems you`re on a good way, just make sure the other pleayers dont get frustrated and sabotage their overall plans because of that (INGame Reasons for sabotage are fine, if they can live with the consequences^^).

3.: Make their opposition interesting and varied.
Other Villains, neutral parties and the obvious heroic parties will allw ant to stop them ... but not the same way or time.
THis can provide various fun challenges and even the occasional moral dilemma.

Have Fun!