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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Welcome to Round 10 of the Villainous Competition!

    Previous Competitions
    Round One: Leader of Armies
    Round Two: Nature's Revenger
    Round Three: Double Agent
    Round Four: Grave Keeper
    Round Five: Crime Lord
    Round Six: Ultimate Predator
    Round Seven: Wicked Witch
    Round Eight: Master of the Tundra
    Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking


    We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15 CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Secret Laboratory: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. We don’t want to make this too easy, do we?

    Some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats as soon as their ECL is over 20. While regular Epic feats will be allowed, Epic Spellcasting and all other Epic feats that affect spells, psionic powers, or item creation are not permitted. Including these would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. For Incarnum characters, Epic Open Chakra feats are allowed; other Epic Incarnum feats are not. The Essentia Capacity increases for Epic capacity as described on p. 212. For all characters, please note that Racial Hitdice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

    Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Friday March 4th to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor (short time replacement Korahir). Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Friday March 25th to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.

    Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
    Originality - Is it unexpected?
    Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
    Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
    Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the minion that outshines the BBEG?

    Build Elegance: Builds that are fully monstrous are usually allowed at no penalty, but see limitations for this round specifically.

    All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels.

    Amount of sources can be penalized, but obscurity of sources should not be penalized. Count the three Core books as one source. Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 0 if it makes the field unfair.)
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.


    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

    Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    You can use the below table for Spells.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code Immediately Below,
    Spoiler
    Show

    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]



    Speculation:
    Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Get ready to share those Evil thoughts. This edition’s villain is:

    The Henchman

    For the anniversary edition i picked up Dire_Stirge's suggestion for those villains, who usually don't shine: the guys in the backranks, the errant boys. In Dire_Stirge's words: antagonists who for whatever reason aren't quite the most powerful kids on the block.

    Limitations:
    • The character may not have more than 10 caster, manifesting or meldshaper levels. The character may have more initiator levels and there are no restrictions on truespeak characters.
    • The character may only cast (or initiate) spells, powers and maneuvers of 5th level or lower. Meldshaper may only bind Soulmelds to chakras enabled in the first ten levels of the class.
    • The character may not use any method to cast (or initiate) higher level spells, powers or maneuvers other than Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device. This limitation includes possible summons, familiars, animal companions and so on.
    • Base creature limitations: inherited templates maximum +2 CR, base creature max 2 CR and 4 RHD.
    • The character must serve an evil Overlord, organisation or any other evil power, but must not be in any commanding position within this organisation.
    • As always, must have an Evil alignment.


    We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.


    For this special henchman only: use standard array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10) !


    Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:
    - Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
    - Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
    - Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
    - DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
    - Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
    - Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10
    So, start your evil plotting!

    To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:

    PM: Korahir
    Subject: Villainous Competition 10, Name of your Entry

    For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.

    More questions? PM me with Villainous Competition 10 Questions in the header.

    I hope i picked limitations you can work with. Feel free to point out blatant mistakes or possible abuses within those limitations and most important: Let's keep it nice: this is all just in good fun.
    Last edited by Korahir; 2016-02-11 at 09:13 AM.
    Avatar by the amazing Cuthalion.

    Natural 1 on every attack role since 2003.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    When you say "Normal array," do you mean the standard array, or the nonelite array?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Does the minimum level adjustment include templates (ie combined LA total must be 2 or less), or does it work off CR increase?
    Last edited by ben-zayb; 2016-02-10 at 08:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MERC_1 View Post
    I find it very amusing that a very theoretical discussion of how to Optimize Bardic Music, turns into a discussion on how much worms you can eat in 7 minutes.
    Extended Signature

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Yeah, we haven't actually been using LA in these competitions, so I'm not sure that restriction makes sense.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    I meant the nonelite array and i will rewrite the LA increase to CR. Are you fine with the rest?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    In regards to the +2 CR, what exactly does this mean in regards to races? The passage states "may not have a CR adjustement via race or template(s) of more than +2," but creatures (AFAIK) don't have any CR adjustments built in.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    In regards to the +2 CR, what exactly does this mean in regards to races? The passage states "may not have a CR adjustement via race or template(s) of more than +2," but creatures (AFAIK) don't have any CR adjustments built in.
    I assume the creature+template CR can't exceed 2 before class levels, or more accurately (what with weirdness of having 1/2 or 1/3 CR or whatever before class levels), that 18 of your CR have to come from class levels.

    I have some thoughts on this. We'll see if I can find time to put something together.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    This will be fun

    a few questions there :

    use nonelite array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10) !
    The nonelite array is: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 ?

    •The character cannot have more than 4 Racial Hit Dice and may not have a CR adjustement via race or template(s) of more than +2.
    I think you mean inherited templates maximum +2 CR, base creature max 2CR and 4 RHD. (to not have powerful base creatures)

    We can add acquired templates as part of the build ? Becoming lycanthrope, vampire, using savage species rituals to become another monster....

    •The character may not use any method to cast (or initiate) higher level spells, powers or maneuvers other than Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device. This limitation includes possible summons, familiars, animal companions and so on.
    Gaining those through class feature , spell-likes or extraordinary abilities is also a no-go then ?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    I've never done one of these before. Do we include both stats and character arch or just stats?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    What's the goal for building a 20th level henchman? Is he supposed to be weak, so that you don't feel bad throwing ten of him at the party at once, or is he supposed to be unique dumb muscle for the big boss? I don't really get the theme here.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by JyP View Post
    This will be fun

    a few questions there :

    use nonelite array (11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10) !
    The nonelite array is: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 ?
    Sorry seems like I've used the wrong term for over a decade now. I meant the stats posted which would translate to the standard array.

    •The character cannot have more than 4 Racial Hit Dice and may not have a CR adjustement via race or template(s) of more than +2.
    I think you mean inherited templates maximum +2 CR, base creature max 2CR and 4 RHD. (to not have powerful base creatures)
    Exactly, thanks for translating my gibberish.

    We can add acquired templates as part of the build ? Becoming lycanthrope, vampire, using savage species rituals to become another monster....
    Yes, I'll leave this to the judges whether they think it fits the henchman or not.

    •The character may not use any method to cast (or initiate) higher level spells, powers or maneuvers other than Use Magic Device or Use Psionic Device. This limitation includes possible summons, familiars, animal companions and so on.
    Gaining those through class feature , spell-likes or extraordinary abilities is also a no-go then ?
    That is exactly my intention. At first I thought to ban polymorph, but I think this rule circumvents a lot of polymorph shenanigans.


    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    What's the goal for building a 20th level henchman? Is he supposed to be weak, so that you don't feel bad throwing ten of him at the party at once, or is he supposed to be unique dumb muscle for the big boss? I don't really get the theme here.
    I don't think dumb muscle is the only option. I don't want to spoil the ideas of the contestants but I think there are way more options than that.
    Last edited by Korahir; 2016-02-11 at 09:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    So, I have an idea, but I'm not 100% on if what I build as a "Henchman" would be accurate for this competition. "Cannot hold a leadership position within the organization", would that mean basically a grunt? Or would a specialist within the ranks merit a build? Not necessarily a lieutenant or captain, but somebody that's just a cut above the general rank and file is what I have in mind.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselGuy View Post
    So, I have an idea, but I'm not 100% on if what I build as a "Henchman" would be accurate for this competition. "Cannot hold a leadership position within the organization", would that mean basically a grunt? Or would a specialist within the ranks merit a build? Not necessarily a lieutenant or captain, but somebody that's just a cut above the general rank and file is what I have in mind.
    I'd say go with it and leave to the judges to see if they like it. I chose this restriction to exclude right hand man and second in command kind of characters.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    I'd say go with it and leave to the judges to see if they like it. I chose this restriction to exclude right hand man and second in command kind of characters.
    Ok. Follow up question, are we to assume that all of the henchmen have roughly the same stats as the one being submitted? Like, are we crafting the rank and file soldier whereas the lieutenants and BBEG are the truly differentiated.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    When you say "Henchman", do you mean something that could be a high-level mook, or do we have enough freedom to make what TV Tropes refers to as "The Dragon"? To give an example, if we were making a Henchman for the Star Wars universe, would we be limited to "Stormtrooper Of The Year", "The Emperor's Bodyguard", or "Darth Vader"?


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    When you say "Henchman", do you mean something that could be a high-level mook, or do we have enough freedom to make what TV Tropes refers to as "The Dragon"? To give an example, if we were making a Henchman for the Star Wars universe, would we be limited to "Stormtrooper Of The Year", "The Emperor's Bodyguard", or "Darth Vader"?
    The way I'm reading this thread, it seems like we should be building something more in line with "Stormtrooper of the Year".
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Am I correct if I assume there's no limit on the CR increase from acquired templates?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    What i was aiming for picking up the star wars theme:

    stormtrooper of the year or emperor's bodyguard or specialist (boba fett)

    but not: darth vader (or tv tropes the dragon) as basically the second in command.


    I don't want to limit you on the mooks and bruisers, specialists are also fine. If you take a typical dungeon: everyone in the dungeon is fine as long as he is not the BBEG and not "the dragon" (tv tropes) or second in command.

    I feel like my english is hitting its limits to express my thoughts. Hope you can follow.


    @Dire_Stirge
    You are correct. I just wanted to exclude strong base races.
    Last edited by Korahir; 2016-02-11 at 03:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    What i was aiming for picking up the star wars theme:

    stormtrooper of the year or emperor's bodyguard or specialist (boba fett)

    but not: darth vader (or tv tropes the dragon) as basically the second in command.


    I don't want to limit you on the mooks and bruisers, specialists are also fine. If you take a typical dungeon: everyone in the dungeon is fine as long as he is not the BBEG and not "the dragon" (tv tropes) or second in command.

    I feel like my english is hitting its limits to express my thoughts. Hope you can follow.


    @Dire_Stirge
    You are correct. I just wanted to exclude strong base races.
    Extrapolation and repetition to explain what I think you mean by this:
    Evil organizations tend to have three tiers
    Leader
    Henchmen
    Minions

    This is about Minions that have had a chance to develop; i.e. they ran away from the PC's the first couple times and have gained levels. Sadly in most cases when a minion does this they become a Henchman and gain some measure of leadership inside an evil organization. The right hand man can be reached by this survivability notion.

    So what you're asking for is a minion who levels up to 20. But... wouldn't any minion who gets to the level to compete with henchmen either become a henchman or leave and start his own evil organization?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    So not the rank and file, but not really even the lowest of the high leadership, hmm? Lieutenants and Sergeants, then...I've got a couple ideas.


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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    This will be an interesting round. very thorough restrictions. down to cook.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    By "less than 10 Caster/Manifesting/Initiator level", are you referring to class levels, or the CL/ML/IL variable itself? Because some class have less CL/ML/IL than their level, and some have more.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    The variable itself.

    Also assume that any methods to circumvent the 5th level spells, power etc. restrictions doesn't work. If entries manage to pull of tricks like that, i encourage judges to penalize them for it.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Standard array really hurts for what I'm planning. Can we still get the elite array at a +1 CR cost?
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2016-02-12 at 01:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Standard array really hurts for what I'm planning. Can we still get the elite array at a +1 CR cost?
    I know it's a thorough restriction and I am a little torn, but I won't allow that workaround. Let's see this one through wit the standard array.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    I know it's a thorough restriction and I am a little torn, but I won't allow that workaround. Let's see this one through wit the standard array.
    How about the nonelite array?
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    How about the nonelite array?
    Same ruling, won't allow it this time.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Korahir View Post
    Same ruling, won't allow it this time.
    Darn it. Back to the drawing board it is...
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Question about base CR HD/CR - if you advance a creature by HD, and the base monster starts within the 4HD and CR 2 - is it OK to have ir advance by HD?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition X: Henchman are Villains too

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Question about base CR HD/CR - if you advance a creature by HD, and the base monster starts within the 4HD and CR 2 - is it OK to have ir advance by HD?
    To further expound, I'd also point out that CR increase upon HD advancement isn't always a 1:1 ratio. Depending on type, it could be a 4:1, 3;1, 2:1, or 1:1 ratio.
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