Dragonfire Adept-Base Class

[JNAProductions]

Moved to Dungeon Master's Guild, at least temporarily. I have a saved copy on google docs, so don't worry, this class won't be lost to the ether.

And is now a Pay What You Want item! Download it as a free PDF all you would like, right here.

Been updated slightly for better formatting.

[AvatarVecna]

Only able to give it a cursory once-over right now, and the only thing that immediately popped out to me was "2 level dip for up to 5 expertise skills" for either a carefully-built half elf DFA (who could get all those skills trained with a bit of work) or a half elf lore bard wanting some cheap bonuses.

But seriously, adding 5 trained skills is a lot...especially when they stack if you're already trained in those skills. Maybe it's just me though...

Anyway, that's the only thing that jumped out at me immediately. I'll give it a more thorough examination later when I have the time.

[JNAProductions]

Changed to a single, because yeah, that's a lot more in 5E than it is in 3E.

[JNAProductions]

Added Regional and Lair effects.

Edit: Added Cloud Shape to Least Invocations.

[Steampunkette]

I feel like Breath Attack doesn't need multiple separate tiers rather than a single ability with an advancement scheme. It just feels a bit clunky to break it into chunks like that.

I also feel, perhaps erroneously, that the save against it should be -either- the Proficiency Bonus -or- the Constitution Modifier, but not both. I realize that breaks out of line with most other special abilities of classes and spellcasting in particular, but with an at will 1-4d6 with such a large area it might be better to reduce the overall save value.

After all, the Dragonfire Adept is almost always going to be using it in any combat situation as they lack spellcasting ability or the ability to make multiple attacks.

In retrospect, that is probably my biggest complaint about the class: It is so focused on the Breath Weapon as to feel a bit shallow. I realize that is harsh, especially with lair actions available, but it's true. Breathe as an action, lair effect bonus. Repeat. Maybe move in between them.

Maybe give them some claw attacks and a bite to vary things up a bit and give them some non-breath options in combat, particularly in situations where a breath weapon is a liability rather than a boon... Otherwise there will be a -lot- of singed party members in the world.

... I'm sorry that I came in with so much bad to say about the class... I don't mean to. I think it's a great idea. It just feels so centered on it's breath weapon that there aren't other reasonable options available for it.

[JNAProductions]

I feel like Breath Attack doesn't need multiple separate tiers rather than a single ability with an advancement scheme. It just feels a bit clunky to break it into chunks like that.

I also feel, perhaps erroneously, that the save against it should be -either- the Proficiency Bonus -or- the Constitution Modifier, but not both. I realize that breaks out of line with most other special abilities of classes and spellcasting in particular, but with an at will 1-4d6 with such a large area it might be better to reduce the overall save value.

After all, the Dragonfire Adept is almost always going to be using it in any combat situation as they lack spellcasting ability or the ability to make multiple attacks.

In retrospect, that is probably my biggest complaint about the class: It is so focused on the Breath Weapon as to feel a bit shallow. I realize that is harsh, especially with lair actions available, but it's true. Breathe as an action, lair effect bonus. Repeat. Maybe move in between them.

Maybe give them some claw attacks and a bite to vary things up a bit and give them some non-breath options in combat, particularly in situations where a breath weapon is a liability rather than a boon... Otherwise there will be a -lot- of singed party members in the world.

... I'm sorry that I came in with so much bad to say about the class... I don't mean to. I think it's a great idea. It just feels so centered on it's breath weapon that there aren't other reasonable options available for it.

I specifically asked for critiquing. I'm not going to poo on you for doing what I asked.

Thank you for your words. I'll add in a Natural Attack and some form of buff (for metallics) or debuff (for chromatics).

[JNAProductions]

Added Natural Weapons, Improved Natural Weapons, Greater Natural Weapons, Flurry, Improved Flurry, Fear Me!, and Fear Not.

[DracoKnight]

Hit points at 1st level should be 8 + Con mod.

[JNAProductions]

Hit points at 1st level should be 8 + Con mod.

Thank you.

Added two new Lesser Invocations (thanks to AvatarVecna).

[Steampunkette]

So at 15th level we're looking at 4 natural attacks, if I'm reading this right.

Two main hand (plus mod) two off-hand (no modifier).

Each dealing 1d8 damage.

That's definitely a better option on single target situations, and possibly in group combat situations, than just breath-spam. I like it a lot.

It's less damage than a Monk's abilities, but it doesn't use a resource (making it more available) and it has the opportunity cost of Lair Actions.

Very nice, I think.

[JNAProductions]

No, you're looking at three. Two with modifiers, one without.

But it's at d8 instead of d6, and offers an ability modifier twice instead of once (chromatic) or not at all (metallic).

Edit: Added more invocations.

[Steampunkette]

Ack! Sorry. Improved is at 20. My mistake. 4 attacks at 20, two main two off. d8s all.

Very cool.

[JNAProductions]

So does it feel good? Anything it's lacking? Any ideas for more Invocations? Anything unbalanced?

[Steampunkette]

Maybe some ribbons. How about...

Draconian Greed: The Dragonfire that burns in your breath also sears your soul, and like all dragons you seek material gain. You have a preternatural ability to sense treasure and seek it. This functions in a manner similar to magic detection but applies only to treasures or collections of wealth within a 5ft cube worth 500gp or greater and is always active.

[JNAProductions]

Maybe some ribbons. How about...

Draconian Greed: The Dragonfire that burns in your breath also sears your soul, and like all dragons you seek material gain. You have a preternatural ability to sense treasure and seek it. This functions in a manner similar to magic detection but applies only to treasures or collections of wealth within a 5ft cube worth 500gp or greater and is always active.

Added Draconian Greed.

[Steampunkette]

How about an Invocation that changes cones into lines or lines into cones?

Sweep Breath: Pulling your head sharply to the side as you exhale, you sweep your breath in a cone across your targets. Halve the distance and make a 45 degree angle cone.

Narrowed Breath: Using your hands to shape the exhalation you narrow your breath weapon, significantly, increasing it's reach. 15ft wide line, add half your range to the total range.

How about an invocation to fire smaller bursts?

Spit Breath Weapon: By limiting how much of your breath you release you can blast smaller areas with your breath weapon. Change the area to 1d6 10ft squares within 120ft.

Could do some Natural Weapon invocations.

Tail Sweep: You grow a thick draconic tail when you take this invocation. It deals the same damage as your other natural weapons and may be used interchangeably with them. You may also use your tail to make a special attack action Tail Sweep. Choose 4 adjacent squares and 2 squares within 10ft that are adjacent to at least one of the four squares you've already chosen. Make a single attack roll against all targets in the area. On a success they take normal damage and must make a Dex or Str save to avoid being tripped.

Elemental Bite: The power of your ancestry cannot be denied, and your bite attack now deals damage of one die size larger and gains the elemental descriptor of your breath weapon.

[JNAProductions]

How about an Invocation that changes cones into lines or lines into cones?

Sweep Breath: Pulling your head sharply to the side as you exhale, you sweep your breath in a cone across your targets. Halve the distance and make a 45 degree angle cone.

Narrowed Breath: Using your hands to shape the exhalation you narrow your breath weapon, significantly, increasing it's reach. 15ft wide line, add half your range to the total range.

How about an invocation to fire smaller bursts?

Spit Breath Weapon: By limiting how much of your breath you release you can blast smaller areas with your breath weapon. Change the area to 1d6 10ft squares within 120ft.

Could do some Natural Weapon invocations.

Tail Sweep: You grow a thick draconic tail when you take this invocation. It deals the same damage as your other natural weapons and may be used interchangeably with them. You may also use your tail to make a special attack action Tail Sweep. Choose 4 adjacent squares and 2 squares within 10ft that are adjacent to at least one of the four squares you've already chosen. Make a single attack roll against all targets in the area. On a success they take normal damage and must make a Dex or Str save to avoid being tripped.

Elemental Bite: The power of your ancestry cannot be denied, and your bite attack now deals damage of one die size larger and gains the elemental descriptor of your breath weapon.

You can actually decide whether it's a line or a cone already.

Spit Weapon is now Projectile Breath, and simply makes it a small burst anywhere within 120'.

Tail Sweep is now Sweeping Tail, and targets all adjacent enemies as well as adding a bludgeoning weapon.

Elemental Bite is now Elemental Blows.

Thanks!

[Steampunkette]

Oh! I thought it was one or the other, once selected, for the entire career. Didn't know you could change at will!

[JNAProductions]

Oh! I thought it was one or the other, once selected, for the entire career. Didn't know you could change at will!

No, you can change at-will. I imagine cone will be used most often.

[Ninja_Prawn]

As requested, a review from Ninja_Prawn...

All the while I was reading this, I was thinking "I hope those invocations are strong and varied, because this class lacks power and options." Then, when the invocations didn't satisfy me, I was all ready to comment - until I saw "Chromatic." It totally wasn't clear to me that chromatic/metallic were the subclasses...

So, I'm happy with the power. I think the addition of natural weapons is important, and the breath weapon looks about the right scale for a front-line at-will.

My first complaint is that the natural armour is too granular. Especially at levels 1 and 2, when you most need the protection, it's just not there. Obviously you can't front-load all the abilities, but I'm sure there's something at level 1 right now that can be pushed back. If not, the metallic +1 bonus should start at level 1. Hmm... an Invocation that makes your skin spiky (in the mold of Armour of Agathys) might make it more interesting.

My second, and probably larger, complaint is that it just looks very predictable. Every dragonfire adept will use their breath weapon every round against multiple targets, or their claws against a single target (I can't see why they'd ever bite). Every one will use natural armour. Almost all will pick the flight invocation. There just aren't enough choices... it'd be like playing as a monster stat block all the time (and not being able to switch creature like a druid can). I'm not sure what the best remedy is. Maybe another subclass (shadow would be obvious, but you could also resurrect time dragons, or look at dragonkin like pseudo and faerie dragons). Or more invocations that actually open up more tactical options.

Minor quibble: you either need to define "knowledge check" or reword it to "Intelligence based skill check" or something.

[JNAProductions]

Reworded Draconic Knowledge to Intelligence based skills, excluding Investigation.

Now, with that minor error fixed, what would you advise adding in order to make the class more varied? Obviously some Invocations that change the game a little more (I think Sweeping Tail is a good example of that) but what else? I'm kinda drawing a blank on what to do.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'll have a think about it when I get home (on the train now), but I'm 100% writing a shadow subclass if you don't do it. I think that, on its own, would help a lot.

Spoiler: New colour option

Show

Planar

Sub-colours. Astral (force, bright), Faerie (psychic, dim), Shadow (necrotic, darkness)

Merge with Environment. At 1^st level your innate connection to your environment enables you to merge seamlessly with it. When you are in the light type specified for your sub-colour, you may use an action to become invisible. This effect ends if you move or perform any actions or bonus actions.

. At 6^th level...

. At 11^th level...

Planar Wanderer. At 14^th level you gain the ability to cast the Plane Shift spell once per day. You require no material components for this spell, but you may only target yourself and your allies.

Terrible Breath. When you reach 17^th level you gain additional options for your breath weapon. Every time you use it, choose one of the following conditions: blinded, deafened, petrified, poisoned, restrained. Anyone who fails their save suffers from that condition for the next minute. They may repeat the save at the end of each of their turns, recovering on a success.

Spoiler: New invocations

Show

???

[JNAProductions]

I'll write one when I get home. Don't feel you need to.

[JNAProductions]

Added Shadow subclass.

Edit: Added tha tank subclass, Dragon Turtle.

[PoeticDwarf]

To be fair. I think this is pretty amazing. Problem is that I feel like this dragonic class doesn't have dmg dragons should have. The breath weapon is at-will but deals cantrip damage and the natural weapons end up doing 4d8+20 (yes the level 20 feature doesn't care about light it is just bonus action attacks) but like a monk... No ways to improve and costs bonus action. Especially the breath could become better.

I think in-combat this class just doesn't have enough offensive and out of combat it is still worse than a warlock so a little buff would help, but I still think it's great. Features fit and are often balanced

[JNAProductions]

To be fair. I think this is pretty amazing. Problem is that I feel like this dragonic class doesn't have dmg dragons should have. The breath weapon is at-will but deals cantrip damage and the natural weapons end up doing 4d8+20 (yes the level 20 feature doesn't care about light it is just bonus action attacks) but like a monk... No ways to improve and costs bonus action. Especially the breath could become better.

I think in-combat this class just doesn't have enough offensive and out of combat it is still worse than a warlock so a little buff would help, but I still think it's great. Features fit and are often balanced

It's an AoE damage, so it's absolutely fantastic at clearing out groups of mooks. I could make the damage better, but part of the original DFA was an at-will Breath Attack, and in order to make that not game breaking, the damage has to be low.

Good point on the level 20 feature-I'll add an addendum stating that you don't get your ability modifier on those attacks. (This class is not supposed to be better than a Monk at unarmed combat.)

[PoeticDwarf]

It's an AoE damage, so it's absolutely fantastic at clearing out groups of mooks. I could make the damage better, but part of the original DFA was an at-will Breath Attack, and in order to make that not game breaking, the damage has to be low.

Good point on the level 20 feature-I'll add an addendum stating that you don't get your ability modifier on those attacks. (This class is not supposed to be better than a Monk at unarmed combat.)

A cantrip can as example deal d8 damage on a group. No half damage but it is a cantrip. 5d6 would not be gamebreaking and the damage is lower than that of a monk, yes even then. I asked for improved damage or giving something as TWF style as invocation at least

[JNAProductions]

You're saying bump the damage up? Huh.

Submortimer recently informed me via PM that he feels it might be overpowered, even in its weak state, so I'm not going to up the damage quite yet. I've got a couple of games I'll hopefully be able to playtest this in, so if it feels weak, I'll be able to adjust it then.

Speaking of which, this right here is the recruitment/GM needed thread for the playtest game.

[Submortimer]

The AoE damage is way over the top good. 1d6 damage to a horde of bad guys doesn't seem like much,but being able to do this at will would absolutely trivialize most fights up to around level 6.

1. It's save for HALF, not save for none. Cantrip level damage or not, you are guarateeing damage every round. With something like Offensive fury, you could be looking at 6-7 damage per breath attack automatically every round.

2. The range is twice that of burning hands starting out. That's a LOT of area to cover, and also a massive drawback for a low level party, since they have to stay far away from you.

Amusingly, you also hamstring yourself in the single target damage situation: since you're stuck with only d6s, you quickly become outclassed by almost everyone else against bigger, meaner targets who either auto save or have high enough dexterity that they only fail on a 1.

So, what do?

Here's what do.

Make it a cantrip. If you just want it to be pure damage, give it a d10 damage die, otherwise give it an element based rider and drop the damage die to a d8. For at will, you can choose between ranged spell attack or save for none.

1/short rest, you can breathe a 15' cone or 30' line, dealing your breath damage or half on a save. This increases every time you gain a new damage die for your breath attack, topping out at 60' cone and 120' line.

For different shapes, make them invocations, and make them use able a number of time per rest that is appropriate:
- Ranged Spell attack, all creatures within 5 feet of the target take half the damage dealt, or non on a successful save. At Will.
- 20' radius burst. 1/short rest.
- target another creature within 5' with a second Ranged Spell attack. At will.
- twin breath attack (target two different creatures, not within 5 feet). Cha bonus/short rest, minimum 1.

I think you see where I am going. This all fits into precedent already established, makes you less astoundingly OP against armies of bandits, and more capable of taking on actual dragons when you get to that level.

Other things:

I feel like the "Cha Damage to breath" should be something available to all, but with the high AC bonuses available to the Dragon turtle it could be too much.

Speaking of, do you get the Hardened Shell bonus if you are using a shield? You should specify that.

Actual Flight at level 9 is far to early. I'd recommend making it some sort of slow fall or glide ability (you drop at normal rate, but can move up to your speed horizontally while doing s, and you reduce falling damage bay an amount equal to twice your level).

Those are the broad strokes. I know it seems like I'm pushing you to make this more like the warlock, but that's kinda what the old Dragonfire Adept was like.

It's still really cool, but it just needs some work.

[Submortimer]

A cantrip can as example deal d8 damage on a group. No half damage but it is a cantrip. 5d6 would not be gamebreaking and the damage is lower than that of a monk, yes even then. I asked for improved damage or giving something as TWF style as invocation at least

There are only three that I know of: Acid Splash (which hits TWO creatures next to each other for d6), sword burst, and thunder clap (last two hit all creatures around you, but again, at a d6). d8 on a group save for half is way outside the realm of cantrips.