Another Futurequest Thread: The Monk's Code

[8BitNinja]

So while we were playtesting, I mentioned the idea of a more lawful alternative to the chaotic hoodlum that you guys mentioned

One of my brothers thought that a monk was a good idea, so he wrote up several ideas, such as having certain abilities, not using technology, being a combination of both a Catholic and Bhuddist monk (strange combo, don't worry, it will make sense) and having a randomized code

The idea he came up with was similar to powers in City of Heroes, where you first rolled for the amount of powers, and then the powers you got

The idea is that you rolled a d12 to see how many vows you had to take, and breaking them would make you an ex- monk

There would be 12 different vows, but I only have a few, tell me if you had any ideas

This isn't official, but something I thought would be fun to talk about while the game is still in revision

So right now I have

1- Vow of Silence: Cannot talk (in character)
2- Vow of Poverty: Cannot have a net worth of over 1500
3- Vow of Abstinence: Cannot drink alcohol
4- Vow of Nonviolence: Cannot fight, no matter what

Any other ideas?

[rooster707]

Vow of Singing: Must always communicate in musical fashion.

[Geddy2112]

So while we were playtesting, I mentioned the idea of a more lawful alternative to the chaotic hoodlum that you guys mentioned

One of my brothers thought that a monk was a good idea, so he wrote up several ideas, such as having certain abilities, not using technology, being a combination of both a Catholic and Bhuddist monk (strange combo, don't worry, it will make sense) and having a randomized code

The idea he came up with was similar to powers in City of Heroes, where you first rolled for the amount of powers, and then the powers you got

The idea is that you rolled a d12 to see how many vows you had to take, and breaking them would make you an ex- monk

There would be 12 different vows, but I only have a few, tell me if you had any ideas

This isn't official, but something I thought would be fun to talk about while the game is still in revision

So right now I have

1- Vow of Silence: Cannot talk (in character)
2- Vow of Poverty: Cannot have a net worth of over 1500
3- Vow of Abstinence: Cannot drink alcohol
4- Vow of Nonviolence: Cannot fight, no matter what

Any other ideas?

I like the idea of the east meets west monk. However, having a d12 determine how many vows your character is getting is a bit wonky. Make it like 3.5/pathfinder, where taking vows gives you advantages, not just a "here are d12 things you can't do or bye bye powers"

I also like the idea of having vows, or at least a code of conduct the monk has to follow- a monk's vows and general character should come from their monastic order, or whatever training. This can vary greatly-some monastic orders might use drugs to attain power or a higher state, while some may drink, some may make beer but not drink it, etc. It should vary by the monk in question, not blanket statements. Many western monks can drink alcohol(and make it) but most eastern monks cannot. Likewise, physical activity, scholarly activity, martial arts, giving back to the community, farming, and other views vary greatly. A monk's order will have broad guidelines, and you can add specific vows as applicable.

I think you mean vow of temperance for #3. A vow of abstinence should also be a vow, but abstinence usually implies abstaining from sexual activity, or you could call it a vow of celibacy. Nonviolence should be worded differently, or in a non combat centered campaign, or it will be near impossible. Other vows can be truth, fasting, and some form of flagellation/self torture.

[AMFV]

All of these are restrictive vows, many vows in religion are active. I find prohibitive vows to be more frustrating in games. So you could go for vows that are things they must do.

Vow of Prayer: Must Pray Daily.

Would be an example, not a complex one, you could have vows about how one deals with charity, what one does when confronted with an injustice. Vows that instead of restricting actions, give more required actions. Also I would consider rewarding rather than penalizing. The vows give you your powers when you succesfully follow them, yes, it may be functionally the same, but in principle it's different and with classes like this, that's the key. The principles are the thing.

[goto124]

Vow of Singing: Must always communicate in musical fashion.

That's for the Bard class, silly.

[AMFV]

That's for the Bard class, silly.

Or Monks or Paladins who worship gods or saints that focus on the beauty of music. Music and religion are interrelated in almost every real-world culture, it stands to reason that they would be in fantasy cultures. I also like that one because it requires you do something, instead of taking something away.

[8BitNinja]

I like the idea of the east meets west monk. However, having a d12 determine how many vows your character is getting is a bit wonky. Make it like 3.5/pathfinder, where taking vows gives you advantages, not just a "here are d12 things you can't do or bye bye powers"

I also like the idea of having vows, or at least a code of conduct the monk has to follow- a monk's vows and general character should come from their monastic order, or whatever training. This can vary greatly-some monastic orders might use drugs to attain power or a higher state, while some may drink, some may make beer but not drink it, etc. It should vary by the monk in question, not blanket statements. Many western monks can drink alcohol(and make it) but most eastern monks cannot. Likewise, physical activity, scholarly activity, martial arts, giving back to the community, farming, and other views vary greatly. A monk's order will have broad guidelines, and you can add specific vows as applicable.

I think you mean vow of temperance for #3. A vow of abstinence should also be a vow, but abstinence usually implies abstaining from sexual activity, or you could call it a vow of celibacy. Nonviolence should be worded differently, or in a non combat centered campaign, or it will be near impossible. Other vows can be truth, fasting, and some form of flagellation/self torture.

Thanks for bringing this up, I'll mention this and will be implemented if the monk class is

All of these are restrictive vows, many vows in religion are active. I find prohibitive vows to be more frustrating in games. So you could go for vows that are things they must do.

Vow of Prayer: Must Pray Daily.

Would be an example, not a complex one, you could have vows about how one deals with charity, what one does when confronted with an injustice. Vows that instead of restricting actions, give more required actions. Also I would consider rewarding rather than penalizing. The vows give you your powers when you succesfully follow them, yes, it may be functionally the same, but in principle it's different and with classes like this, that's the key. The principles are the thing.

Vow of Justice(?): if you see injustice, you must fight it, no matter the consequences

Vow of Pacifism could be changed to Vow of Restraint: You cannot attack unless in self defense

Both could give you combat bonuses against chaotic/evil enemies or defensive bonuses

Great idea for that vow

I actually had another idea suggested to me for another religious class, the bishop. Unlike other classes, their abilities did not require energy, but they had a separate resource called prayers. Every time you prayed, which would take a full turn in combat, you regain all your prayers, and each ability they could perform, from healing wounds and curing diseases, to calling down fire from heaven would each take one prayer

[8BitNinja]

Or Monks or Paladins who worship gods or saints that focus on the beauty of music. Music and religion are interrelated in almost every real-world culture, it stands to reason that they would be in fantasy cultures. I also like that one because it requires you do something, instead of taking something away.

I will be sure to add the vow of singing also, maybe they would go through the city streets singing

It's kind of hard to go through all the streets considering that most vehicles are hover vehicles

[ComaVision]

I do not like the idea of randomized vows at all. Why not have a fixed number of vows they can select from a list?

[CharonsHelper]

Vow of Justice(?): if you see injustice, you must fight it, no matter the consequences

That sounds more like 'Vow of the Innocent': You need to protect the innocent from injustice. (The lack of injustice isn't inherently justice.)

Vow of Justice: You must punish the wrongdoer.

A few more -

Vow of Charity: You must help those who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

Vow of Challenge: You must accept any challenge of skill/ability. (Note: you don't have to win them)

Vow of Training: You must attempt to train the virtuous who prove their worth. (I figure this is where they'd pull out all of the archetypical insane martial arts trainings/tests in order to chase most away so they're not hassled all of the time.)

[8BitNinja]

That sounds more like 'Vow of the Innocent': You need to protect the innocent from injustice. (The lack of injustice isn't inherently justice.)

Vow of Justice: You must punish the wrongdoer.

A few more -

Vow of Charity: You must help those who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

Vow of Challenge: You must accept any challenge of skill/ability. (Note: you don't have to win them)

Vow of Training: You must attempt to train the virtuous who prove their worth. (I figure this is where they'd pull out all of the archetypical insane martial arts trainings/tests in order to chase most away so they're not hassled all of the time.)

Thank you for your ideas, I love them all

[8BitNinja]

I do not like the idea of randomized vows at all. Why not have a fixed number of vows they can select from a list?

I guess each one could give you a certain passive ability/power, so the stricter the code, the better the powers

[AMFV]

I guess each one could give you a certain passive ability/power, so the stricter the code, the better the powers

Or it could charge basically Oath points, or some such, the more points you have the more powers you can use. Basically for keeping an oath for whatever it's length is, you get rewarded with benefits you can use.

[CharonsHelper]

They could boost the class's resource pool maximum (mana etc) but each time they failed to live up to their code their maximum was dropped 2x the vow's bonus for a length of time.

Though there should still be min & max # of vows to keep the bonuses from getting out of hand.

[AMFV]

They could boost the class's resource pool maximum (mana etc) but each time they failed to live up to their code their maximum was dropped 2x the vow's bonus for a length of time.

Though there should still be min & max # of vows to keep the bonuses from getting out of hand.

Well I would personally have the vows charge everything, the more vows the more you get, but you only get them after, and then the vows are only for a specific period of time.

[CharonsHelper]

Curious - am I correct in assuming that Futurequest is rather heavily on the 'future fantasy' side of the sci-fi spectrum?

[AMFV]

Curious - am I correct in assuming that Futurequest is rather heavily on the 'future fantasy' side of the sci-fi spectrum?

I believe so, it's still in development, and he linked to the rules text in a previous thread, so you can read chunks of it. Although since it's very much in alpha there are bits are harder to wrap yourself around.

[8BitNinja]

I believe so, it's still in development, and he linked to the rules text in a previous thread, so you can read chunks of it. Although since it's very much in alpha there are bits are harder to wrap yourself around.

You are correct, and I am working on the rules right now while also playtesting, this was just a class suggestion that came up

[8BitNinja]

Well I would personally have the vows charge everything, the more vows the more you get, but you only get them after, and then the vows are only for a specific period of time.

So if I am correct, this is how it would go. Please correct me if I'm wrong

Vano is an Ancient monk and decides that he wants to take a Vow of Poverty. Because of this, Vano fills up his energy (which is basically mana from other RPGs). However, while in combat, Vano picks up a submachine gun he plans to sell later with a net worth of 500 Credits. Since the vow of poverty states he cannot have a net worth of 1500, and he already had a net worth of 1250, he loses all energy

[AMFV]

So if I am correct, this is how it would go. Please correct me if I'm wrong

Vano is an Ancient monk and decides that he wants to take a Vow of Poverty. Because of this, Vano fills up his energy (which is basically mana from other RPGs). However, while in combat, Vano picks up a submachine gun he plans to sell later with a net worth of 500 Credits. Since the vow of poverty states he cannot have a net worth of 1500, and he already had a net worth of 1250, he loses all energy

It would work like this. Vano takes the vow of poverty at the beginning of the week. He performs that vow for the prescribed time period of one week, he gains his energy. If Vano picks up the gun he gains no new energy but doesn't lose the energy he already has, that way the vows aren't a source of punishment but of reward. I would allow more than one at a time. I think fixes the most PITA parts of 3.5's vows, you get rewards but not punished.

[TheYell]

Vow of Humility: Once a week, you must concede a successful Diplomacy or Bluff skill roll to influence another person.

Vow of Obeisance: Once per year, you must offer to perform a service for a similarly aligned cleric.

Vow of Chaplaincy: Once per year, you must offer to act as a companion to a similarly aligned fighter.

Vow of Conversion: The monk agrees to be companion of a person one step away from his in alignment for the achievement of a openly stated, commonly agreed goal.

Vow of Singing works quite well if you remember Western monks used plainsong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8

[8BitNinja]

Vow of Humility: Once a week, you must concede a successful Diplomacy or Bluff skill roll to influence another person.

Vow of Obeisance: Once per year, you must offer to perform a service for a similarly aligned cleric.

Vow of Chaplaincy: Once per year, you must offer to act as a companion to a similarly aligned fighter.

Vow of Conversion: The monk agrees to be companion of a person one step away from his in alignment for the achievement of a openly stated, commonly agreed goal.

Vow of Singing works quite well if you remember Western monks used plainsong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8

Humility- works pretty well with the rules already set in place

Obesiance- requires me to add the bishop class but still works

Chaplaincy- would this "fighter" be a Marine, Juggernaut, Enforcer, Scout, or Sniper? I could give you the class list but "Fighter" is not one of them

Conversion- very easy to implement

Singing- I was thinking something along the latin chanting monks from Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[8BitNinja]

It would work like this. Vano takes the vow of poverty at the beginning of the week. He performs that vow for the prescribed time period of one week, he gains his energy. If Vano picks up the gun he gains no new energy but doesn't lose the energy he already has, that way the vows aren't a source of punishment but of reward. I would allow more than one at a time. I think fixes the most PITA parts of 3.5's vows, you get rewards but not punished.

Thank you for clarifying

[TheYell]

sounds like Vow of the Flagellent :p

it could be any "fighter" since the point is to do active service at the direction of a warrior. you could break it up if you want the monk to seek out a marine or juggernaut to do a service for.

[rooster707]

Singing- I was thinking something along the latin chanting monks from Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Alternatively...

Spoiler

Show

[8BitNinja]

sounds like Vow of the Flagellent :p

it could be any "fighter" since the point is to do active service at the direction of a warrior. you could break it up if you want the monk to seek out a marine or juggernaut to do a service for.

Okay, so it could be an engineer or craftsmen or even a pilot as long as they fight in the military

That makes sense now, I was just thinking of fighter the wrong way

[ComaVision]

Vow of Humility: Once a week, you must concede a successful Diplomacy or Bluff skill roll to influence another person.

Vow of Obeisance: Once per year, you must offer to perform a service for a similarly aligned cleric.

Vow of Chaplaincy: Once per year, you must offer to act as a companion to a similarly aligned fighter.

The problem with these is that it sets you up to fail your vow for no good reason. You shouldn't fail your vow because you've been in the wilderness for a week and had nobody to talk to.

[TheYell]

Well you could fulfill it with a party member. But theres no point being humble on your own ;p

Obeisance and Chaplaincy are annual vows so I guess if you arent already in a party with a cleric or warrior you would grab a chance first time you hit town.

Vow of the Druid: At least one day per week subsist on what natural foods can be gathered with the Survival skill. Permanently forgo all potions, wine, beer, liquor, liqueurs, cheese, bread, pickles, preserves, fermented vegetables such as kimchi, salted meats, boiled milk and other processed foods.

Vow of the Community: Once per week attempt persuade a companion to share one of your vows. This vow is satisfied upon the serious attempt. There is no benefit from Vow of the Community unless the companion accepts the vow; then the monk receives double the reward from the shared vow. The companion must not have already pledged to perform the shared vow as her own vow.

[8BitNinja]

Well you could fulfill it with a party member. But theres no point being humble on your own ;p

Obeisance and Chaplaincy are annual vows so I guess if you arent already in a party with a cleric or warrior you would grab a chance first time you hit town.

Vow of the Druid: At least one day per week subsist on what natural foods can be gathered with the Survival skill. Permanently forgo all potions, wine, beer, liquor, liqueurs, cheese, bread, pickles, preserves, fermented vegetables such as kimchi, salted meats, boiled milk and other processed foods.

Vow of the Community: Once per week attempt persuade a companion to share one of your vows. This vow is satisfied upon the serious attempt. There is no benefit from Vow of the Community unless the companion accepts the vow; then the monk receives double the reward from the shared vow. The companion must not have already pledged to perform the shared vow as her own vow.

Vow of the Druid: Healing Gel is the primary healing item, but it is made from tree sap, is it okay? Plus, most planets consist of environments where life cannot naturally grow, and food you buy is in ration kits, which are processed, so you kinda have to stay on Earth for this one

Vow of the Community: This one will be intersesting, I like it

[goto124]

Vow of the Community: Once per week attempt persuade a companion to share one of your vows.

What? How is this remotely possible, convincing people to pick up vows every week?

Vows aren't meant to be picked up willy-nilly. I don't see how this is to be done except by lots of self-advertising. Or throwing lots of points into Diplomancy.