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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Genie Warlock Patron

    About half of this is from the ENWorld user Quickleaf, they and their associates did a really good job converting the old Al-Qadim stuff into something usable in 5e.
    that can be found HERE

    So this is what ive got so far, just asking for balance or a few new ideas.

    Sha’Ir Pact:
    Sha'irs are the famed genie ambassadors and binders of Zakhara. In 5th edition they are warlocks who take The Noble Genie as their patron at 1st level, and furthermore must take Pact of the Chain at 3rd level to appease their gen familiar. Foremost of the of Noble Genies are the four rulers of geniekind:
    -Caliph of the Djinn, Husam al-Balil ben-Nafhat al-Yugayyim, Master of the Clouds and Son of the Breezes.
    -Great Khan of All Dao Kabril Ali al-Sara al-Zalazil, Fountain of Wealth, Atamen of the Mountain's Roots, the Stone Sultan.
    -Grand Sultan of the Efreet, Marrake al-Sidan al-Hariq ben-Lazan, the Lord of Flame, the Potentate Incandescent, the Tempering and Eternal Flame of Truth, the Most Puissant of Hunters, Marshall of the Order of the Fiery Heart, the Smoldering Dictator, the Crimson Firebrand.
    -Great Padishah of the Marids, Kalbari al-Durraf al-Amwaj ibn-Jari, the Keeper of the Empire, the Pearl of the Sea, the Mother of Foam, the Maharajah of Oceans, Emir of All Currents.


    Additional Spells
    When you learn spells, you can learn one of the following based on what Noble Genie you serve.
    Patron/Spell Level All Dao Djinni Efreeti Marid
    Level 1 Absorb Elements Earth Tremor Fog Cloud Burning Hands Ice Knife
    Level 2 Levitate Dust Devil Gust of Wind Flame Blade Snilloc's Snowball Storm
    Level 3 Elemental Weapon Erupting Earth Wind Wall Fireball Tidal Wave
    Level 4 Conjure Minor Elemental Stoneskin Storm Sphere Wall of Fire Watery Sphere
    Level 5 Conjure Elementals Wall of Stone Control Winds Flame Strike Maelstrom


    Genie Lore:
    Starting at 1st level, your Noble Genie patron has taught you the Primordial language, and grants you advantage on all checks to recognize the works of geniekind, such as genie illusions, spells, curses, and genie prisons.

    Gen Servant:
    Starting at 1st level, your Noble Genie patron teaches you the summon familiar spell (which doesn't count against your number of spells known) and you can cast it as a ritual. The Noble Genie grants you a gen, a small elemental familiar who helps counsel you about genie kind and provides you with spells. Your gen familiar resembles a tiny degenerate version of the kind of genie your patron is (dao, djinn, efreet, or marid); these are called daolanin, djinnling, efreetikin, and maridan respectively. Its statistics can be approximated using a Mephit of the appropriate type: Dust mephit for daolanin, smoke or steam mephit for djinnling, magma mephit for efreetikin, and mud or ice mephit for maridan. Gen tend to be Neutral in alignment, though they often take on the alignment of their master.
    Any time you witness or research a spell of a level you can cast, as a bonus action you can send your gen familiar to retrieve the spell for you. How it achieves this is up to the gen (and the terms you set out for it), but at your next short rest your gen returns to you with the spell which you may add to your spells known. Keep track of how many spells your gen retrieves over your adventuring career. The maximum number of retrieved spells you may have is equal to your Charisma modifier + your proficiency bonus, reflecting the limit of your gen's abilities. If you wish to send your gen to retrieve further spells, you must sacrifice one of the spells you already know to the gen which it uses as a bargaining tool in its elemental negotiations for the new spell you seek.


    Elemental Explorer:
    Starting at 6th level, you gain resistances and movement corresponding to your Noble Genie Patron.
    -Dao: add 10 to your burrow speed. Resistance to slashing damage.
    -Djinni: add 10 to your fly speed. Resistance to lightning or thunder damage.
    -Efreeti:Add 10 to your land speed. Resistance to fire damage.
    -Marid: Add 10 to your swim speed. Resistance to cold or acid damage.


    Genie Contractor:
    Starting at 10th level, you can call a genie to magically bind it to its word, as well as the ability to travel to your genie patrons home plane, appearing in a spot designated by the noble genies whim, such as a foyer. In addition, you have advantage on persuasion rolls with genies of your patrons type.

    Call a Genie: You learn the conjure elemental spell if you don't know it already, and you can use the spell to summon a genie of the type you choose (or by name, if you know a genie personally). Doing so breaks the normal limit on the summoned elemental's challenge rating. However, the genie is not necessarily friendly and its service must be won through some combination of persuasion, threats, blackmail, payment, promises, and favors. Whatever terms of the agreement you come to, the genie is magically bound to uphold them. You have advantage on all charisma rolls against genies of your patrons type. When you summon it, roll a d100. On rolls of 96-100, that genie has 3 wishes to grant you in addition to their service to you.

    Noble's Palace: To travel to your patron genies court, your can cast a 10 minute planeshift ritual. You and your companions appear on the site at the end of the ritual. While there, your genie patron gives you 3 days of safe haven and assistance before you are subject to hostilities or expulsion. You may barter or make deals with your patron, which they are magically bound to comply with once agreed to.


    Lesser Wish:
    starting at 14th level, can use an action to create one of the following effects once/long rest.
    -can create non magical objects worth less than or equal to 100 gold and no larger than a 5x5x5 cube.
    -can restore ½ of a creature you can see’ health.
    -grant resistance to a damage type to 1 creature.
    -cast dispel or counterspell as 5th level spells.
    -duplicate spells of 3rd level or lower without any requirements.



    Sha'ir Eldritch Invocations

    Friend of the Jann
    Prerequisite: 5th level, Noble Genie patron
    When in the desert or other forlorn lonely place, you can call on the jann (a lesser genie, use the elementals and genies to make them up) for assistance once per day. A single jann will arrive within an hour, usually flying invisibly, but sometimes in an alternate form or rising on the back of a camel; it is friendly and will provide shelter, guidance through the desert, and protection should you be attacked. If you want more from the jann you will need to curry its favor with gifts. Occasionally your janni allies may call on you for help in return.

    Tasked Genie Bond
    Prerequisite: 10th level, Noble Genie patron
    You have bound a tasked genie to serve you for a year and a day, with certain agreed upon conditions. The tasked genie acts as your personal bodyguard, food-taster, and steward, in addition to whatever other tasks are within the terms of your contract.

    Genie’s Bottle
    Prerequisite: Noble Genie Patron
    Take a lamp, jug, or other small item sometimes used to contain genies and enchant it. As an action, once per short rest, you can enter the bottle. When you enter it, there is a fresh meal of high quality, it is furnished to your liking, and has a total floor space of 100 square feet. You can't take items created in the bottle outside of the bottle, but you can store your items in this way and retain the ability to retrieve them. If the bottle has been lost, you can use a 10 minute ritual to return it to your hand.
    Last edited by FartHeartMaGart; 2016-02-27 at 10:43 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    I don't think this subclass is balanced. Most of its features are straight up superior to features in other warlock subclasses.

    The level 1 feature itself might be powerful enough to overshadow all the features of other warlock patrons. Gen Servant is broken. Eventually, it can give you an additional 11 (5+6) spells known of any class; the requirement to have witnessed or researched the spell limits it somewhat, but isn't a strong enough limiter for the ability. For comparison, the Favored Soul, commonly described as OP (or at least, as good as the best sorc subclass), is powerful because its ability gives it 10 extra domain spells; Gen Servant is almost strictly superior.

    Gen Servant has other problems. Because the cap on retrieved spells is CHA mod + Prof. Bonus, it is almost a no brainer for any CHA caster class to MC into; other classes (even non-casters) might find it worthwhile to dip 1 level for added versatility. The wording of the ability (of a level you can cast) isn't strict enough to exclude the possibility of learning spells beyond the warlock's caster level, i.e. is a 19 Sorc/1WL able to learn 11 level 9 spells?

    The level 6 features are quite strong. Resistances and movement bonuses are pretty good compared to the rest limited abilities of other Patrons. Even half of the ability (resistance or movement) might still be unbalanced.

    For the level 10 feature, the main effect is rather DM dependent, which I tend to dislike regardless of whether I'm a DM or player. Balance-wise, the main issue is the 5% chance (you can just use a D20, 96-100 is the same as nat 20) of 3 wishes.

    The level 14 feature, while not necessarily that strong as a combat ability, is extremely versatile. Between all spell lists, you should be able to find a spell to solve most non-combat problems.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    WAY too strong. The Gen Servant alone breaks the class with it's ability to fetch any spell, and what, 11 of them! Adding that many spells, and ESPECIALLY non-Warlock spells, to those you know is ridiculously strong, especially considering the Warlock spell list was carefully designed. Due to way 'locks recover spells every short rest, there are a lot of spells they aren't allowed to know.

    I agree with lordshadowisle that the 6th level is also really strong, though I think that picking one or the other wouldn't be too bad, though I'd probably just give them a movement of 30 in the respective mode. Maybe Ifrits get +10.

    You need to flat-out remove the chance of Wish, if you want to keep the Genie-summoning. Getting access to a SINGLE Wish at 10th level is darn near, if not completely, game-breaking. 3 is right out.

    And I think you'd need to remove the "duplicate" ability of the lesser wish. Getting any one spell, from ANY class, is just a little too strong, imho...


    All in all, I think the subclass is just outright superior, in every way, to any other Warlock, and probably most other classes, as well. Really needs to be depowered if you want to go ahead with it. Like limit the Gen Servant to 'lock spells, pick one or the other at 6th(maybe offer both, and let the player pick), at LEAST remove Wish from the Genie, maybe make a new 10th level ability, and drop the "duplicate" ability off of the Lesser Wish...

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by UberMagus View Post
    WAY too strong. The Gen Servant alone breaks the class with it's ability to fetch any spell, and what, 11 of them! Adding that many spells, and ESPECIALLY non-Warlock spells, to those you know is ridiculously strong, especially considering the Warlock spell list was carefully designed. Due to way 'locks recover spells every short rest, there are a lot of spells they aren't allowed to know.

    I agree with lordshadowisle that the 6th level is also really strong, though I think that picking one or the other wouldn't be too bad, though I'd probably just give them a movement of 30 in the respective mode. Maybe Ifrits get +10.

    You need to flat-out remove the chance of Wish, if you want to keep the Genie-summoning. Getting access to a SINGLE Wish at 10th level is darn near, if not completely, game-breaking. 3 is right out.

    And I think you'd need to remove the "duplicate" ability of the lesser wish. Getting any one spell, from ANY class, is just a little too strong, imho...


    All in all, I think the subclass is just outright superior, in every way, to any other Warlock, and probably most other classes, as well. Really needs to be depowered if you want to go ahead with it. Like limit the Gen Servant to 'lock spells, pick one or the other at 6th(maybe offer both, and let the player pick), at LEAST remove Wish from the Genie, maybe make a new 10th level ability, and drop the "duplicate" ability off of the Lesser Wish...
    To be fair, Clerics get a version of wish at level 10. That particular feature might just need to be brought in line instead of eliminated.

    But yeah, the familiar is already nice, retrieving spells is borked. The Bard is often considered ridiculous for being able to steal any classes spells.

    I like Lesser Wish, but that resistance needs a duration.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by lordshadowisle View Post
    I don't think this subclass is balanced. Most of its features are straight up superior to features in other warlock subclasses.

    The level 1 feature itself might be powerful enough to overshadow all the features of other warlock patrons. Gen Servant is broken. Eventually, it can give you an additional 11 (5+6) spells known of any class; the requirement to have witnessed or researched the spell limits it somewhat, but isn't a strong enough limiter for the ability. For comparison, the Favored Soul, commonly described as OP (or at least, as good as the best sorc subclass), is powerful because its ability gives it 10 extra domain spells; Gen Servant is almost strictly superior.

    Gen Servant has other problems. Because the cap on retrieved spells is CHA mod + Prof. Bonus, it is almost a no brainer for any CHA caster class to MC into; other classes (even non-casters) might find it worthwhile to dip 1 level for added versatility. The wording of the ability (of a level you can cast) isn't strict enough to exclude the possibility of learning spells beyond the warlock's caster level, i.e. is a 19 Sorc/1WL able to learn 11 level 9 spells?

    The level 6 features are quite strong. Resistances and movement bonuses are pretty good compared to the rest limited abilities of other Patrons. Even half of the ability (resistance or movement) might still be unbalanced.

    For the level 10 feature, the main effect is rather DM dependent, which I tend to dislike regardless of whether I'm a DM or player. Balance-wise, the main issue is the 5% chance (you can just use a D20, 96-100 is the same as nat 20) of 3 wishes.

    The level 14 feature, while not necessarily that strong as a combat ability, is extremely versatile. Between all spell lists, you should be able to find a spell to solve most non-combat problems.
    Alright, I can see what you mean
    Lets say with your Gen, you can snatch 3 spells in total and when you cast em, theyre gone
    Instead of resistances and movement, how about get a genie bottle invocation effect
    level 10 I LIKE that its gm dependent, its not a guaranteed "you get a genie friend", and thank you for pointing out the nat 20 discrepancy
    level 14 get a SUPER weak wish spell 1/day, so like level one spells or cantrips, making items worth 5 gold or less and no larger than a square foot

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Yeah, I totally got overzealous and not critical enough. Im SUPER new to making homebrew stuff, so I dont have the sharpest eye for balance.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Revised version

    Genie Lore:
    Starting at 1st level, your Noble Genie patron has taught you the Primordial language, and grants you advantage on all checks to recognize the works of geniekind, such as genie illusions, spells, curses, and genie prisons.

    Gen Servant:
    Starting at 1st level, your Noble Genie patron teaches you the summon familiar spell (which doesn't count against your number of spells known) and you can cast it as a ritual. The Noble Genie grants you a gen, a small elemental familiar who helps counsel you about genie kind and provides you with spells. Your gen familiar resembles a tiny degenerate version of the kind of genie your patron is (dao, djinn, efreet, or marid); these are called daolanin, djinnling, efreetikin, and maridan respectively. Its statistics can be approximated using a Mephit of the appropriate type: Dust mephit for daolanin, smoke or steam mephit for djinnling, magma mephit for efreetikin, and mud or ice mephit for maridan. Gen tend to be Neutral in alignment, though they often take on the alignment of their master.
    Any time you witness or research a spell of l level you can cast, up to 5th level, as a bonus action you can send your gen familiar to store a single casting of that spell. Your familiar leaves to find this spell. This spell becomes available after a short or long rest. You may have 3 spells stored in this way.

    Genie Bottle:
    Starting at 6th level, your patron has shown you the magic of bottles, lamps, or other small containers of this type. Complete a 10 minute ritual on such an item to make it your lamp. As an action, your gen may enter this lamp. While inside, they are immune to harm, regenerate 1d4 health a minute, and can store items. They cannot see or take actions on the outside world while in this lamp.

    Genie Contractor:
    Starting at 10th level, you learn the conjure elemental spell if you don't know it already, and you can use the spell to summon a genie of the type you choose (or by name, if you know a genie personally). Doing so breaks the normal limit on the summoned elemental's challenge rating. However, the genie is not necessarily friendly and its service must be won through some combination of persuasion, threats, blackmail, payment, promises, and favors. Whatever terms of the agreement you come to, the genie is magically bound to uphold them. You have advantage on all charisma rolls against genies of your patrons type. Roll a d20 when they are summoned, if you roll a d20, the genie has 3 wishes that they may be coerced to grant you.

    Lesser Wish:
    starting at 14th level, can use an action to create one of the following effects once/long rest.
    -can create non magical objects worth less than or equal to 50 gold and no larger than a 5x5x5 cube.
    -can restore ¼ of a creature you can see’ health.
    -grant resistance to a damage type to 1 creature for 1 hour.
    -cast dispel or counterspell as 5th level spells.

    Maybe be able to cast cantrips on the wish thing as well?
    Last edited by FartHeartMaGart; 2016-02-28 at 01:41 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Gen Servant give you Pact of the Chain with different familiars...I don't think it is a good thing for a patron to give. Just add Mephits to the Pact of the Chain list.

    Genie Contractor is super redundant, you can get Conjure Elemental once/long rest as an Invocation, you give it as selectable patron spell (which is problematic in itself, given that warlocks refresh spells on short rest) and as a patron ability? ...oh, right, and 5% chance for 3 free Wishes per long rest at level 10
    Last edited by JackPhoenix; 2016-02-28 at 10:21 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    I thought about making a Sha'Ir subclass of Warlock. I'm glad to see someone trying it.

    Instead of augmenting their de facto limit of spell known, have you thought about making the spell retrieving a feature that allows to change one of their normal spell known, say once per long rest, for maybe one hour of ritual/fetching.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by JackPhoenix View Post
    Gen Servant give you Pact of the Chain with different familiars...I don't think it is a good thing for a patron to give. Just add Mephits to the Pact of the Chain list.

    Genie Contractor is super redundant, you can get Conjure Elemental once/long rest as an Invocation, you give it as selectable patron spell (which is problematic in itself, given that warlocks refresh spells on short rest) and as a patron ability? ...oh, right, and 5% chance for 3 free Wishes per long rest at level 10
    Alright, noted
    I'll remove that from their spells known, make it a 1% chance and you can do it once a day, refreshed at dawn, and let's say it takes an hour to do this

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    Alright, noted
    I'll remove that from their spells known, make it a 1% chance and you can do it once a day, refreshed at dawn, and let's say it takes an hour to do this
    I'd say just take away the chance for Wish, and definitely take away the chance for THREE. Even a 17th level Wizard is taking a HUGE risk trying to get 3 Wishes! (33% of permanently burning out the ability to cast Wish). That's a SERIOUSLY overpowered ability.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by UberMagus View Post
    I'd say just take away the chance for Wish, and definitely take away the chance for THREE. Even a 17th level Wizard is taking a HUGE risk trying to get 3 Wishes! (33% of permanently burning out the ability to cast Wish). That's a SERIOUSLY overpowered ability.
    Well, the genie has to be negotiated with and those wishes won't come cheep
    And what's the point of having genies without even the RARE chance for a wish

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    I am actually surprised that 5e gave warlocks an undead patron before considering any elemental one, especially a genie. The words "otherworldly" and "pact" are much easier to place in that context.

    In 5th edition they are warlocks who take The Noble Genie as their patron at 1st level, and furthermore must take Pact of the Chain at 3rd level to appease their gen familiar.
    Starting at 1st level, your Noble Genie patron teaches you the summon familiar spell (which doesn't count against your number of spells known) and you can cast it as a ritual.
    One of the things I like about the warlock class in 5e is how your choices of patron and pact both feel important and can come in any combination. I do not know the lore of the Sha'irs, but why wouldn't one be famous for their magic scimitar or for casting spells out of a Book of 1001 Nights? I do have a preference for the familiar route but it can wait until 3rd level.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    And what's the point of having genies without even the RARE chance for a wish
    I agree that the wish spell should be in there somewhere. In fact, I would make it more than a rare chance. But I wouldn't let the character have genies, plural. Instead, the character serves The Noble Genie, who has promised them wish as an arcanum at 17th level.
    Last edited by Millstone85; 2016-02-29 at 12:13 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Instead, the character serves The Noble Genie, who has promised them wish as an arcanum at 17th level.
    Which would suck if you rolled that 33% chance of never being able to cast it again...
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga View Post
    Which would suck if you rolled that 33% chance of never being able to cast it again...
    You could include the homebrew solution that was brought up in another thread where instead of the 33% chance you instead get exactly 3 risky wishes and then you can only ever use it for the non-risky effect of spell replication.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by CantigThimble View Post
    You could include the homebrew solution that was brought up in another thread where instead of the 33% chance you instead get exactly 3 risky wishes and then you can only ever use it for the non-risky effect of spell replication.
    Not a bad idea, had considered adding wish to the spell list for the 9th level arcanum myself, like this idea to balance it

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by JellyPooga
    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85
    Instead, the character serves The Noble Genie, who has promised them wish as an arcanum at 17th level.
    Which would suck if you rolled that 33% chance of never being able to cast it again...
    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    Quote Originally Posted by CantigThimble
    You could include the homebrew solution that was brought up in another thread where instead of the 33% chance you instead get exactly 3 risky wishes and then you can only ever use it for the non-risky effect of spell replication.
    Not a bad idea, had considered adding wish to the spell list for the 9th level arcanum myself, like this idea to balance it
    Yeah, I like that line of thinking.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Regardless of access to wish at level 17 I think they should get some kind of access to wish before wizards do. They're a genie pact warlock and wishes are a pretty defining aspect there. However the current level 10 feature where you have a tiny chance to have the opportunity to negotiate for 3 wishes is bad in several ways.

    There's only a tiny chance for it to happen so there's a good chance that aspect will never matter at all. You need to negotiate which means a long sequence of discussion that the DM needs to constantly be prepared for. You're giving the DM potentially a lot of extra work by taking this subclass and the other players might feel a bit left out by all of this. Finally 3 consecutive wishes at levels 10-15 can just solve an entire campaign, even if you only use them to make 8- level spell effects. For example: teleport to BBEG past all defences, feeblemind on BBEG, teleport safely away, wait a couple weeks for his organization to start falling apart and being fractured without his leadership, do the rest of the campaign on easymode.

    Instead I'd suggest you give something like:
    You may spend an action to contact your patron and request a wish. Roll a d20, on a 16-20 he answers and you may either offer him overwhelming wealth (magic items, large amounts of gold and gems, possibly slaves depending on the genie) or offer him a service of his choosing to be decided on in the future. (basically the DM can at any time cast a no-save Geas on the player once the Genie decides what it wants) The DM can negotiate but the genie will quickly grow tired of dealing with the mortal if it takes longer than a minute or two for them to give in to his demands. Once you use this ability you cannot use it again until you complete a long rest. If you were granted a wish you cannot use the ability until at least one week has passed and the debt to the genie has been paid back.

    The idea is to have the negotiation over quickly and make sure it's hard to break the campaign with this.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Seriously people, 1-3 Wishes at lvl 10 is ridiculous. Even just used for the replication effect, it's super strong. Throw in the option 2s or 3s and you've got a campaign breaking power.

    There's a reason that PCs don't get Wish until level 17(seven levels AFTER you're proposing). Sure, Wishes are part of the "flavor" of Genies, but level 10 seems just WAY too early for that kind of power.

    Even Divine Intervention, which is a god interceding on behalf of one of their chosen champions, isn't this strong(DM decides the result, once it happens, 7 day downtime, etc...)

    Personally, I really like the idea of adding Wish to the Arcanum list. (though I also think that Wish's 33% permanent loss needs to be homebrewed, maybe you just lose access to the type 2 and 3, but keep the "replicate" section)

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    So, I came up with this feature:
    Wish Magic
    Starting at 1st level, you can cast wish once without expending a spell slot. You must use this spell to duplicate another spell of a lower level than your warlock spell slots or your highest arcanum. You can't use this feature again for a number of days equal to 1 plus the level of the spell you duplicated.
    At 17th level, you can use wish to create a different effect, in which case you can't use this feature again for 10 days. You ignore the 33 percent chance of being unable to cast wish ever again, but you die when you suffer the stress of the spell for the 4th time in your entire existence.
    Dying in this way sends your soul to the outermost regions of your patron's plane, where it is utterly annihilated under the pressure of pure elemental power, making it impossible to ever bring you back. At the DM's discretion, a 20th level character would instead be reborn as an elemental creature in The Noble Genie's court.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    I am actually surprised that 5e gave warlocks an undead patron before considering any elemental one, especially a genie. The words "otherworldly" and "pact" are much easier to place in that context.

    One of the things I like about the warlock class in 5e is how your choices of patron and pact both feel important and can come in any combination. I do not know the lore of the Sha'irs, but why wouldn't one be famous for their magic scimitar or for casting spells out of a Book of 1001 Nights? I do have a preference for the familiar route but it can wait until 3rd level.

    I agree that the wish spell should be in there somewhere. In fact, I would make it more than a rare chance. But I wouldn't let the character have genies, plural. Instead, the character serves The Noble Genie, who has promised them wish as an arcanum at 17th level.
    You know, I probably should have though of something that cool myself
    I even thought of an Invocation that allows you to have 2 Pact weapons permitting they're both scimitars
    Last edited by FartHeartMaGart; 2016-02-29 at 10:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UberMagus View Post
    Seriously people, 1-3 Wishes at lvl 10 is ridiculous. Even just used for the replication effect, it's super strong. Throw in the option 2s or 3s and you've got a campaign breaking power.

    There's a reason that PCs don't get Wish until level 17(seven levels AFTER you're proposing). Sure, Wishes are part of the "flavor" of Genies, but level 10 seems just WAY too early for that kind of power.

    Even Divine Intervention, which is a god interceding on behalf of one of their chosen champions, isn't this strong(DM decides the result, once it happens, 7 day downtime, etc...)

    Personally, I really like the idea of adding Wish to the Arcanum list. (though I also think that Wish's 33% permanent loss needs to be homebrewed, maybe you just lose access to the type 2 and 3, but keep the "replicate" section)
    Yeah, my thoughts on that too
    Someone suggested you get 3 free castings of it and then it's subject to normal rules but that is... potent

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    So, I came up with this feature:
    That
    Is a very good idea, and it means that you cant muddle around with it too much, and you don't get incredible perfect start with 75000 gold worth of stuff

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Genie Magic: Starting at 1st level, once a day refreshing at dawn, you can use the magic replication effects of Wish, however the spell replicated must be of a level you can cast via your pact magic feature or your mystic arcana ability. At 17th level, you can use this ability to do one of the other effects of the Wish spell, but you can cast this 3 times without fail, and only 3 times. These wishes are interpreted by the GM, acting as your patron.
    This feature replaces your Mystic Arcana (9th level) class ability.


    Genie’s Bottle: Starting at 6th level, your patron teaches you how to create a typical genie habitat. You can cast an hour long ritual to bind a lamp, jar, jug, or other similar object to yourself. As an action once per day, you (or your familiar) may enter this object for 1 hour. Treat it as a 30 ft radius circle that is 15 ft tall. The environment tailored to your preferences and appears as you like it to. When you enter, there is a fine meal waiting for you. You may not remove objects created by the lamp, but you may store or remove other objects inside. If the object is opened or rubbed while you are inside, you are expelled onto the nearest free space. The object is immune to non magical damage.


    Genie’s Command: Starting at 10th level, once per day, you may cast the Animate Objects spell by snapping your fingers at it, targeting only one object of large size or less. This does not require your concentration and lasts for 1 hour.


    Genie’s Flight: Starting at 14th level, once a day for one minute, your lower body becomes a wisp of cloud, smoke, dust, steam, or other harmless gaseous elemental effect. You gain a fly speed of 30.


    The idea here is that the first level ability is Strong, and the rest is for flavor. Main concerns are that the 1st level should be in the place of the 6th level and vice-versa, and that the fly speed is a wee bit too potent.
    Thoughts on balance or flavor?

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Perhaps I should warn that I am just as new to this homebrew stuff as you are. Having said this...

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    Genie Magic: Starting at 1st level, once a day refreshing at dawn, you can use the magic replication effects of Wish, however the spell replicated must be of a level you can cast via your pact magic feature or your mystic arcana ability. At 17th level, you can use this ability to do one of the other effects of the Wish spell, but you can cast this 3 times without fail, and only 3 times. These wishes are interpreted by the GM, acting as your patron.
    This feature replaces your Mystic Arcana (9th level) class ability.
    I am glad that you liked the general idea of the warlock getting progressively better at Wish until they can actually cast the full spell. But I see that much has changed from what I suggested. Some comments on that:
    * I had made the duplicated spells of a lower level than you can cast, rather than of a level you can cast. Thus, you could only duplicate cantrips until you gained 2nd level spell slots, at which point you could duplicate cantrips and 1st level spells, and so on. This would let you reach Wish' normal 8th level limit upon learning Mystic Arcanum (9th level). It felt more organic to me and maybe more balanced too.
    * You also ignored my "1 + spell level days" mechanic, making this a daily feature instead. I fear it might be too strong. Plus, my solution let you have a different Mystic Arcanum (9th level) in good conscience.
    * I thought it would be funny to mix the tropes Three Wishes and Four Is Death, making a fourth wish a possible but Dangerous Forbidden Technique that could only be survived as an epic campaign conclusion. Also, D&D has genies (3 wishes) as elemental creatures (4 elements), so it felt appropriate.
    * On a related note, "you can cast this 3 times without fail" seems a bit ambiguous to me. I know that we are still talking about ignoring the 33% chance. But someone else might think it means the DM has to interpret the wish in a positive manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    Genie’s Bottle: Starting at 6th level, your patron teaches you how to create a typical genie habitat. You can cast an hour long ritual to bind a lamp, jar, jug, or other similar object to yourself. As an action once per day, you (or your familiar) may enter this object for 1 hour. Treat it as a 30 ft radius circle that is 15 ft tall. The environment tailored to your preferences and appears as you like it to. When you enter, there is a fine meal waiting for you. You may not remove objects created by the lamp, but you may store or remove other objects inside. If the object is opened or rubbed while you are inside, you are expelled onto the nearest free space. The object is immune to non magical damage.
    I really love the flavor of this feature and I don't see anything wrong with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    Genie’s Command: Starting at 10th level, once per day, you may cast the Animate Objects spell by snapping your fingers at it, targeting only one object of large size or less. This does not require your concentration and lasts for 1 hour.
    I haven't paid attention to that spell as much as I should have. It is pretty neat and I guess it makes a good 10th level feature. Can you animate your Genie’s Bottle and use it as a tiny flying saucer?

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    Genie’s Flight: Starting at 14th level, once a day for one minute, your lower body becomes a wisp of cloud, smoke, dust, steam, or other harmless gaseous elemental effect. You gain a fly speed of 30.

    The idea here is that the first level ability is Strong, and the rest is for flavor. Main concerns are that the 1st level should be in the place of the 6th level and vice-versa, and that the fly speed is a wee bit too potent.
    I think that moving Genie Magic to 6th level might justify it being a daily feature. I wanted it to start at 1st level for flavor reasons but Genie’s Bottle is very flavorful too. I also like Genie’s Flight but I don't know how to evaluate its potency.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart
    I even thought of an Invocation that allows you to have 2 Pact weapons permitting they're both scimitars
    That has my vote. I also think that Elemental Weapon should be worked into an invocation for genie/blade warlocks, rather than be in the genie's Expanded Spell List. Perhaps one or both of these invocations should forbid other blade invocations.
    Last edited by Millstone85; 2016-03-01 at 09:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    Genie Magic: Starting at 1st level, once a day refreshing at dawn, you can use the magic replication effects of Wish, however the spell replicated must be of a level you can cast via your pact magic feature or your mystic arcana ability. At 17th level, you can use this ability to do one of the other effects of the Wish spell, but you can cast this 3 times without fail, and only 3 times. These wishes are interpreted by the GM, acting as your patron.
    This feature replaces your Mystic Arcana (9th level) class ability.
    I think this is a strong ability from spell levels 1-5, and overpowered from 6-8. The main problem with this feature at spell levels 6-8 is that you essentially have twice as many of the highest level slot as any other caster, not to mention it can cast anything of that level and below. A genie warlock will become the strongest caster at spell levels 6-8.

    It then becomes quite average at level 17, because the feature suddenly takes up your 9th-level Mystic Arcana. This doesn't seem very elegant to me. It also forces you to take wish and locks you out of any other level 9 spells.

    My suggestion would be to cut off the replication effect progression after 9th level; i.e. it can only duplicate up to level 5 spells. This will bring its power level down to something more acceptable, though it still feels quite strong. Another suggestion is to gain the ability to cast wish using your level 9 Mystic Arcanum at level 17. You still choose a 9th-level spell for MA. This allows you basically two options for level 9 spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    Genie’s Bottle: Starting at 6th level, your patron teaches you how to create a typical genie habitat. You can cast an hour long ritual to bind a lamp, jar, jug, or other similar object to yourself. As an action once per day, you (or your familiar) may enter this object for 1 hour. Treat it as a 30 ft radius circle that is 15 ft tall. The environment tailored to your preferences and appears as you like it to. When you enter, there is a fine meal waiting for you. You may not remove objects created by the lamp, but you may store or remove other objects inside. If the object is opened or rubbed while you are inside, you are expelled onto the nearest free space. The object is immune to non magical damage.
    This is just a ribbon. Other patrons typically gain a defensive ability at 6th. You don't need to follow suit, but it should at least have some useful effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    Genie’s Command: Starting at 10th level, once per day, you may cast the Animate Objects spell by snapping your fingers at it, targeting only one object of large size or less. This does not require your concentration and lasts for 1 hour.
    This is an interesting ability with both combat and non-combat uses. Great!

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    Genie’s Flight: Starting at 14th level, once a day for one minute, your lower body becomes a wisp of cloud, smoke, dust, steam, or other harmless gaseous elemental effect. You gain a fly speed of 30.
    Seems ok, but it feels a bit less exciting/interesting than other Patron abilities. I don't think it'll hurt to extend the duration to 10m (1m is generally enough for combat), as this gives it more useful options outside of combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by FartHeartMaGart View Post
    The idea here is that the first level ability is Strong, and the rest is for flavor. Main concerns are that the 1st level should be in the place of the 6th level and vice-versa, and that the fly speed is a wee bit too potent.
    Thoughts on balance or flavor?
    I think it's better to balance each ability. It's an big improvement over the first proposal. I feel that it should be almost ready once the level 1 (too powerful) and 6 (too weak) features are fixed.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Things got simpler, which is good, but just for fun I would like to recompile a bunch of ideas like so:
    Genie Bottle
    At 1st level, your patron teaches you how to create a typical container of genie magic. You can perform a special ritual on a lamp, jar, jug, or other similar nonmagical object that you hold. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. The object becomes your genie bottle. If you perform the ritual on another object, the previous object ceases being a genie bottle. Your genie bottle is immune to nonmagical damage and is considered an arcane focus.

    As an action while you hold your genie bottle, you can expend a spell slot from your Pact Magic feature, and your genie bottle gains a wish slot of the same level. Your genie bottle can contain up to 3 wish slots at a time. As a different action while you hold your genie bottle, you can have it expend a wish slot to create one of the following effects:
    * You cast a spell that you know and that is of a level no higher than that of the wish slot. You must meet all requirements of the spell as normal, including any casting time superior to 1 action.
    * You enter your genie bottle for 1 round. The environment looks like a treasure room full of coins, gems and other objects of great value.
    * You enter your genie bottle for 15 minutes. The environment looks like a sauna and you regain 1d4 hit points for every 5 minutes you spend there.
    * You enter your genie bottle for 1 hour. The environment looks like a dining room with an abundance of cushions and there is a fine meal waiting for you.

    Whenever you enter your genie bottle, treat it as a 30 ft radius circle that is 15 ft tall. You may not remove objects created by your genie bottle, but you may store or remove other objects inside. Any object stored inside your genie bottle ends up in its treasure room. If your genie bottle is opened or rubbed while you are inside, you are expelled onto the nearest free space. After exiting your genie bottle in any way, you must finish a long rest before you can enter it again.
    Lesser Wish
    Starting at 6th level, your genie bottle can create new effects when you have it expend a wish slot:
    * You cast a spell that is of a level no higher than that of the wish slot. If the spell does not appear on the warlock spell list, it is nonetheless a warlock spell for you. You must meet all requirements of the spell as normal, including any casting time superior to 1 action. The genie bottle must expend 2 more wish slots in addition to the one used to cast the spell.
    * You send a willing creature to one of the rooms inside your genie bottle. The rules that would apply to you in this room now apply to the creature.
    * You create up to 100 gp worth of coins and gems. A creature observing a coin or gem can use an action to make an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC, with a +1 bonus to the check for every hour that has passed since the creation of the coins and gems, to discover that it won't last. When the total bonus equals your spell save DC, the coins and gems crumble to dust and vanish.

    After creating one of these effects, you must finish a long rest before you can do so again.
    Would that distance us from balance?
    Last edited by Millstone85; 2016-03-01 at 07:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Things got simpler, which is good, but just for fun I would like to recompile a bunch of ideas like so:Would that distance us from balance?
    This seems pretty good and well thought out. Some thoughts:
    1. Genie bottle is essentially a ring of spell storing. Especially useful for warlocks, who can regenerate spell slots, and also helps to smooth out the resource problems warlocks can face (at low levels, 2 slots per rest can feel restrictive). There is a small risk that players may use the rest often method to start each encounter with fully charged bottles.

    2. The requirement of an action to cast a spell from the bottle is good. This also makes storing spells in the bottle not a strictly dominant option over casting from pact slots; you may want to retain one (or more) pact magic slots just to cast BA spells using your BA instead of an action by using the bottle.

    3. The wealth creation ability is quite temporary and has a small element of risk to it, which helps to limit abuse.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by lordshadowisle View Post
    Seems ok, but it feels a bit less exciting/interesting than other Patron abilities. I don't think it'll hurt to extend the duration to 10m (1m is generally enough for combat), as this gives it more useful options outside of combat.
    Draconic sorcerer gets perma-flight at the same level, as do Favored Soul sorcerer...I think it wouldn't make much of a difference for warlock either
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals get loose.

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    Default Re: Genie Warlock Patron

    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    Perhaps I should warn that I am just as new to this homebrew stuff as you are. Having said this...

    I am glad that you liked the general idea of the warlock getting progressively better at Wish until they can actually cast the full spell. But I see that much has changed from what I suggested. Some comments on that:
    * I had made the duplicated spells of a lower level than you can cast, rather than of a level you can cast. Thus, you could only duplicate cantrips until you gained 2nd level spell slots, at which point you could duplicate cantrips and 1st level spells, and so on. This would let you reach Wish' normal 8th level limit upon learning Mystic Arcanum (9th level). It felt more organic to me and maybe more balanced too.
    * You also ignored my "1 + spell level days" mechanic, making this a daily feature instead. I fear it might be too strong. Plus, my solution let you have a different Mystic Arcanum (9th level) in good conscience.
    OHHHH, I had been too hasty when I read it, sorry friend. That makes it WAY more balanced geez.
    Definitely better

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