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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    I think Jojo bizarre adventure as an analogy is too much an exaggeration, that show too outlandish. But I get your point.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharad9 View Post
    I think Jojo bizarre adventure as an analogy is too much an exaggeration, that show too outlandish. But I get your point.
    As long as it gets the idea across
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2017-12-26 at 10:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharad9 View Post
    I think Jojo bizarre adventure as an analogy is too much an exaggeration, that show too outlandish. But I get your point.
    I'll ask you to note that these guys aren't cosplayers, or putting on a show.

    "Scary magical hoodoo and technology are the same thing, their difference is merely cultural context" - Clarke, paraphrased

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by raygun goth View Post
    I'll ask you to note that these guys aren't cosplayers, or putting on a show.

    That is a good example!
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    First off... Absolutely amazing work. Great job.

    I was looking for some different takes on Nerull and Hextor and man, did you deliver!

    I keep seeing Jehenna mentioned in your posts...
    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    - Jehenna, the mother of law
    Where is she from? I can't find anything but vague references and your posts mentioning her.

    Many Thanks!

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by robbonj69 View Post
    First off... Absolutely amazing work. Great job.

    I was looking for some different takes on Nerull and Hextor and man, did you deliver!

    I keep seeing Jehenna mentioned in your posts...


    Where is she from? I can't find anything but vague references and your posts mentioning her.

    Many Thanks!
    In art, Jehenna is often depicted as cloaked in the vengeful souls of the wronged, raging like a tempest.

    Jehenna is the goddess of poetry, vengeance, and karma. As revenge was the first form of justice, Jehenna is the primeval deity of law, and mother of Heironeous and Hextor (representing 'newer' conceptions of justice). She demands that all transgressions be met with a fitting punishment, ideally with poetic irony, and as such her vision of justice mirrors that of characters such as Khal Drogo or the Specter. Scenes like "a crown for a king" are her standard modus operandi. She is the fury, the nemesis, the dread in the hearts of all who know that they have done wrong... for she is coming for them. What goes around will come back to haunt you... especially since Jehenna is the original creator of undeath, too. There is poetry in revenants rising to take vengeance on their slayers, after all.

    In societies where Jehenna's form of justice is not the legal standard, her philosophy often finds traction with vigilantes, and some large cities are stalked at night by Jehenna's "shade knights" who strike fear into the hearts of criminals.

    Unlike the other deities in this pantheon, Jehenna doesn't borrow a name from a classical D&D deity. However, in my version, Saint Cuthbert is a historical saint of Jehenna.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2018-07-12 at 09:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Does Jehenna serve a similar function to Styx in the Greek myths? That's the closest RL deity I can compare her to.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    So I was curious how you go about organizing what to put in each Religion DC for these articles? Partly because I've been trying to do better write-ups of the gods of my own pantheon and thought this was a good template to follow.

    And I play Fifth Edition, so how do the DCs convert?
    Last edited by AureusFulgens; 2018-07-21 at 08:12 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by AureusFulgens View Post
    So I was curious how you go about organizing what to put in each Religion DC for these articles? Partly because I've been trying to do better write-ups of the gods of my own pantheon and thought this was a good template to follow.

    And I play Fifth Edition, so how do the DCs convert?
    These are both valuable questions, and perhaps it would be worthwhile to add a little spoilerblock footnote on the subject to each of the posts.

    How do I organize what to put in each religion DC for these articles?

    For knowledge DCs at least... here's how it works.
    • The d20srd section on Knowledge says "Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions)."
    • DC 10 answers the most basic questions like "Who the heck is Lolth?" You recognize the deity's name and basically know who they are in the most popular stories.
    • DC 15 gets into the finer details of the religion. You know about the cultural practices and philosophy associated with the deity/religion, and popular myths. This result also lets you know all of a deity's domains/portfolio.
    • DC 20 gets into the realm of academia... the kind of points theologians debate. It raises philosophical questions and conundrums, disagreements amongst theologians, etc etc.
    • Higher DCs get into the realm of historical roots, apocrypha, conspiracy theories, obscure lore, etc. It also will give you access to all the little Greek-pantheon-esque myths and tales which may give insight into specific dungeons and the like, as well as specific knowledge of notable servants of each deity.
    • More obscure/niche lore may get their DCs bumped up (usually by 5). For example, "the loser's version of history" is a higher DC than the winner's version (with Lolth).
    • Given DCs assume some arbitrary guy from another culture; an outsider perspective. Knowledge DCs are 5-10 lower to know about something that's part of your religion or particularly important where you come from, if they even need to roll at all (for example, a drow from a devout Lolth-worshiping culture doesn't need to roll a 15 to know their city's side of Lolth's story). In other words, if you and/or half the people you know have been eating communion wafers all your life, you don't need to roll to know what a communion wafer is.


    How do the DCs convert to 5e?
    This is actually a little more complicated than one might expect.

    One of the major differences between 3.5e and 5e is the skill system... a difference which, when people bring 3.5e expectations into 5e, tends to create scenes that make PCs look more like the Three Stooges than epic heroes. In 3.5e, a level 1 expert might have +10 (potentially even more) to a knowledge check, and +20 or more (potentially even a lot more) by level 5. And DC 20-30 checks will be easy for fairly modest investment at mid-high levels. By high levels the equivalent of "proficiency plus your lowest dump stat" was enough that you simply could not fail a DC20 check even on a 1. For 5e, check bonuses are significantly lower, and have heavier investment costs to raise, and as such DCs should be lower. A lot lower. Like, cut DCs in half lower. Or don't roll at all if it's the kind of thing the PC ought to know about. In 5e a DC15 check represents a massive failure chance for a skilled practitioner, whereas in 3.5e a similar character would simply have a zero or near-zero chance of failure.

    None of these DCs are intended to be difficult for mid-level religious scholars to hit reliably, and I don't mean "Max int rogue/wizard/knowledge domain clerics with Expertise." I just mean a Cleric who takes the Religion skill, geez. And to get an idea of how that compares between editions...

    Level 10 Cleric, 5e: 10 Int, +4 proficiency in Religion, can maybe cast Guidance for +1d4. Feats are rare and have major opportunity costs. Without the Guidance cantrip you fail a DC 15 Religion check a whopping 50% of the time.

    Level 10 Cleric, 3.5e: 10 Int, +13 Knowledge (Religion) at minimum, gets another +2 from a cheap 50gp tool (like a nice religious text or whatever), casual access to spells or abilities that give +10 or more to the check, as well as cheap magic items that give +5 or more to all knowledge checks, and can toss away feats (which don't compete with ability score boosts and come more often) on skill-boosting stuff if they feel like it (such as "use Wisdom for your Knowledge checks instead of Intelligence"). They'll never fail a DC 15 check (no, you don't autofail on rolling 1s on skill checks), rarely fail a 20, and have a fair chance of hitting a 30... or even a really good chance if they decide to boost their check with some low level spell slots, or carry some cheap magic items or took some feats.

    As for a cleric actually trying to focus in Knowledge, like a Knowledge Devotion cleric? Well, those builds would often be designed to hit DC 36 knowledge on a fairly regular basis (to get the +5/+5 bonus from Knowledge Devotion).

    However, the problem actually goes a bit further than merely bigger numbers. One of the issues with converting stuff from 3.5e to 5e is that the skill system doesn't really work the same way. Trained people in 5e aren't much better than untrained people at things, with proficiency merely nudging you up the bounded accuracy scale. While the level 10 3.5e cleric could reliably rattle off DC 20 lore all day, and the Knowledge cleric wouldn't have trouble hitting 30s, that stuff was still obscure to a layman. An unskilled person would have no chance of knowing a DC 30 check. However in 5e, something that is very challenging for a trained religious expert (like a mid-level Cleric with proficiency in Religion trying to make a DC 18 check) is still something that regular folks can do on a not-too-uncommon basis. The upshot of this is that there isn't a perfect, clean way to convert 3.5e's expectations to 5e's more RNG-reliant ones.

    All that said, here's some rough conversions:
    DC 10 = DC 4
    DC 15 = DC 8
    DC 20 = DC 12
    DC 25 = DC 15-16
    DC 30 = DC 18-20

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Does Jehenna serve a similar function to Styx in the Greek myths?
    Which function are you talking about?
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2018-07-22 at 10:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post

    Which function are you talking about?
    From Wikipedia:

    "Styx was the name of an Oceanid nymph, one of the three thousand daughters of Tethys and Oceanus, the goddess of the River Styx. In classical myths, her husband was Pallas and she gave birth to Zelus, Nike, Kratos, and Bia (and sometimes Eos). In those myths, Styx supported Zeus in the Titanomachy, where she was said to be the first to rush to his aid. For this reason, her name was given the honor of being a binding oath for the deities. Knowledge of whether this was the original reason for the tradition did not survive into historical records following the religious transition that led to the pantheon of the classical era."

    While the reasons may be different for her being the binding oath for the gods, the Mother of Law beining a brutal law enforcer works well.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    From Wikipedia:

    "Styx was the name of an Oceanid nymph, one of the three thousand daughters of Tethys and Oceanus, the goddess of the River Styx. In classical myths, her husband was Pallas and she gave birth to Zelus, Nike, Kratos, and Bia (and sometimes Eos). In those myths, Styx supported Zeus in the Titanomachy, where she was said to be the first to rush to his aid. For this reason, her name was given the honor of being a binding oath for the deities. Knowledge of whether this was the original reason for the tradition did not survive into historical records following the religious transition that led to the pantheon of the classical era."

    While the reasons may be different for her being the binding oath for the gods, the Mother of Law beining a brutal law enforcer works well.
    So swearing by Jehenna would be bloody serious business, quite literally. The gods themselves can't save you if you break such an oath.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by AureusFulgens View Post
    So swearing by Jehenna would be bloody serious business, quite literally. The gods themselves can't save you if you break such an oath.
    If one incorporated this concept into the setting, yes.

    Although I wonder about the use of Invetibles and Primus/Modrons in this cosmology. Probably slot them all under the work of Moridan with Hextor, Heronious and/or Jehenna.
    Last edited by Mith; 2018-07-28 at 06:25 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Sorry for the double post, but I don't think edits show up to revive a thread.

    Two ideas I have related to Lolth and Jehenna:

    Lolth:

    With most pantheons, the concept of divine marriges is the union of certain concepts causing a third concept to emerge. For a Greek example, Athena is the goddess of wisdom and wise statecraft because she is the daughter of Zeus (Divine Right of Kings) and her mother as good counsel.

    For Lolth, the poisoning was to break her union with Corellon utterly, essentially as really brutal divorce papers.

    Jehenna:

    An amusing idea is that St. Cuthbert becomes an intermediary between Jehenna and mortals because his retribtion is less harsh than Jehenna's.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Hey, I know this is probably thread necromancy, but I HAVE TO ASK.

    These posts were a gold mine, and have been the basis of the pantheo in my last two campaigns.
    In my new campaign, I have a worshipper of Tiamat who introduces herself as a follower of Bahamut, so I've been looking everywhere for material to give her... Alas, it seems you stopped making these (which I understand).

    But you did mention having started writing about Bahamut, any chance you could share even this incomplete first draft if you still have it somewhere ?

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Osuniev View Post
    Hey, I know this is probably thread necromancy, but I HAVE TO ASK.

    These posts were a gold mine, and have been the basis of the pantheo in my last two campaigns.
    In my new campaign, I have a worshipper of Tiamat who introduces herself as a follower of Bahamut, so I've been looking everywhere for material to give her... Alas, it seems you stopped making these (which I understand).

    But you did mention having started writing about Bahamut, any chance you could share even this incomplete first draft if you still have it somewhere ?
    I do, actually! I've been playing campaigns using these deities for quite some time now (run by both myself and other DMs I know). I just never really got around to compiling all my scattered notes into a digestible format and posting them on the forum, for a variety of reasons. Perhaps that'll change, especially since people have still been expressing interest years later!

    Anywho, the pantheon's actually grown a bit in addition to those I originally said I was going to do. For instance there's now Yurtrus (god of disease and healing), Incabulos (sort of a horseman of Nerull's apocalypse), some more Deep Ones (like Panzuriel the Headless Council, Blibdoolpoolp, or the whole siren culture), and Myhriss (a dualistic goddess of love).

    I've also created another new campaign setting that uses these deities, for my currently ongoing Sunday campaign. The "Howling Sea" campaign has really placed a spotlight on the religions of Maglubiyet, Joramy, Vecna, Erythnul, and the Deep Ones thus far. My Saturday game has also had a lot of spotlight for Wee Jas and Olidammara.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-12-29 at 03:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    I would totally welcome even an ugly copy/paste of your notes !

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Osuniev View Post
    I would totally welcome even an ugly copy/paste of your notes !
    Seconded, these are outstanding work, Ludic!

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky McDibben View Post
    Seconded, these are outstanding work, Ludic!
    Thirded. I've been hoping for more for a long time.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Trying to scrounge up old notes. Here's something to whet your appetites, and I'm curious what you think!

    So this is a thing I originally wrote up to introduce new players to a campaign in the Howling Seas region (in one of the settings that uses this pantheon). I suggest taking a look at the bits on Joramy, and on Magyar (a nation that primarily follows Malgubiyet, the vile God of Hope). The Stormwilds are a whole kettle of fish in their own right but I purposely didn't give away much about them here. Likewise, Saqqara, Rivalon, and Ezhara get a bit less facetime here since they weren't the focus of the earlier parts of the campaign. Oh, check out the race notes, too!

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1..._vJ8zBjA/edit#
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-12-31 at 05:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Trying to scrounge up old notes. Here's something to whet your appetites, and I'm curious what you think!

    So this is a thing I originally wrote up to introduce new players to a campaign in the Howling Seas region (in one of the settings that uses this pantheon). I suggest taking a look at the bits on Joramy, and on Magyar (a nation that primarily follows Malgubiyet, the vile God of Hope). The Stormwilds are a whole kettle of fish in their own right but I purposely didn't give away much about them here. Likewise, Saqqara, Rivalon, and Ezhara get a bit less facetime here since they weren't the focus of the earlier parts of the campaign. Oh, check out the race notes, too!

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1..._vJ8zBjA/edit#
    Are both links supposed to be for the same doc?

    On Malgubiyet and Magyar -- is it "vile hope" in relation to the "hope" in that culture for lower classes being more lie than reality?
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Are both links supposed to be for the same doc?
    Yes.

    On Malgubiyet and Magyar -- is it "vile hope" in relation to the "hope" in that culture for lower classes being more lie than reality?
    That is a part of it. But it goes further than that.

    I should perhaps note that Maggie is kind of the exception to my usual rule that there should be a good/sympathetic side to every deity. Maglubiyet presents the illusion of a good side, at best. He is supposed to represent some of the most destructive and oppressive philosophies humanity has ever bought into. He's designed to make it feel really good to punch a monologuing Magyaran high priest in the face. To root for him is a tragedy.

    The moral complexity comes not from the question of whether Maggie is right or wrong, but how to deal with the people under the sway of such a culture, many of whom really do just intend to spread hope and positivity. Or perhaps from the chance of redeeming Maglubiyet, restoring what he once represented (his personality has changed over the centuries, might get into that later).

    ____

    Magubiyet's Theme

    “Will you let me go for Christ's sake? Will you take that phony dream and burn it before something happens?”
    ― Biff, Death of a Salesman

    “Happiness is the most insidious prison of all.”
    ― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

    Maglubiyet is the mad god of hope and morale, and father of goblinkind. All hope is his, inspiring the slaver and enslaved alike. No faith is above Maglubiyet, nor any below him; Maglubiyet cares not whether faith is well-founded or misguided, nor whether belief is deluded or wise. Indeed, many of his followers believe that great faith itself begets truth, and that hopes define the future. There is no such thing as "blind faith," for faith creates the world. In this, his followers believe him to be the mightiest of gods, and so he is called the Mighty One.

    All hope and faith fuels Maglubiyet, and Maglubiyet sought power so that the gods could never harm him again. But what creates hope? Surely not fulfillment, for fulfillment reduces yearning. What creates faith? Surely not information, for evidence reduces the need for faith. To maximize hope, there must be oppression. To maximize faith, there must be ignorance.

    ___

    Maglubiyan priests will tell you things like "All you have to do is believe!" or "Whatever you ask in prayer, believe you have received it, and it will be yours." They believe in 'positive visualization,' the idea that positive thinking itself makes good things come to you, and vice versa. That somehow you send out your thoughts into the universe and that the universe responds. That this goes so far as to things like "oh, those tsunami victims must have deep down given up or felt guilty and wanted doom to come to them, so they kinda deserve it." A Magyaran philosopher might argue that a slave must, on some level, have the will of a slave -- after all, do they not submit and obey? Do not their wills break before their bodies? In Magyar in particular, they even went so far as to say that you can become a member of a 'higher' race just by sufficiently adopting the correct mindset. They might even occasionally demonstrate that it can happen, with an honored goblin publicly changing into a hobgoblin or bugbear (though skeptics will say that this is almost certainly due to someone using powerful shapechanging magic. Or at least faraway foreign skeptics would. Domestic skeptics better keep their damn mouth shut).

    In Magyar, this has created something of a culture of toxic positivity. "Downers" are a danger to themselves and others. You must think positive. It's part of your job to be happy. Even unsuperstitious Magyarans might say something like "morale is imperative to the function of society and the productivity of our business. You're bringing down morale."

    Once, Magyaran ideals might have been admirable. Their cultural hero, for instance, was kind of like an All Might sort of personality, greeting every adversity with a smile. But those original noble ideals have been twisted to support terrible oppression.

    Magyar is essentially a "theater state." Think lavish parades proclaiming how great their nation is, while the poor suffer.

    The ruler who recently unified Magyar is one of the most powerful Bards ever seen, and so painfully charismatic that interacting with him is something of a cognitive hazard. You're liable to go in wanting to complain about him being an oppressive tyrant who should free the slaves and come out his fangirl groupie talking about how he's going to create a great nation where everyone is happy.

    ___

    Perhaps the cruelest thing about Magyar is that the oppressed are not allowed even to grieve. They must bear their burdens with dry eyes and a forced smile.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-12-31 at 09:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    That's insidious and horrible and poisonous, and terrifying to me because I've seen hints of it in real life (that sort of relentless aggressive optimism that tolerates no "negativity").

    (PS, I was talking about the society itself, not the setting or post.)
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2021-01-02 at 11:06 AM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    That's insidious and horrible and poisonous, and terrifying to me
    Looks like I accomplished exactly what I was going for with Maglubiyet, then.

    Any other thoughts regarding the doc I posted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    great well defined cultures! allways a pleasure to read your writing.

    I particularly liked the Land of Song and Silence paragraph. An interesting take on goblins, which makes sense with what we know about them from stats and description.
    LGBTA+itP
    I'm dyslectic and English is not my first language, so I'll probably make a few spelling errors.
    the Third god of Ghysa, the Rainbow Prince(ss) (RIP), and None, Master of Shadows, and currently Nature's Sculptor, Nathall

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Looks like I accomplished exactly what I was going for with Maglubiyet, then.

    Any other thoughts regarding the doc I posted?
    I like Medea, the kingdom carved out of a vibrant, rich, and hostile land, the upstart.

    The Stormwild being contaminated with positive magic... I love it when the magic isn't just negative bad / positive good, dark bad / light good, etc. And the almost sci-fi notion of colonize a hostile world and having to constantly push back the inherently dangerous native life, that's a nice twist for a fantasy world.


    Joramy -- is this the same version of Joramy that I think I've seen referenced in the deity threads? Love her story here, and I want to know what happened to Libertaria. There's something very believable and very cool about a goddess of fire, pirates, and democracy whose followers light fuses in their hair or hats when going into battle.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    I like Medea, the kingdom carved out of a vibrant, rich, and hostile land, the upstart.

    The Stormwild being contaminated with positive magic... I love it when the magic isn't just negative bad / positive good, dark bad / light good, etc. And the almost sci-fi notion of colonize a hostile world and having to constantly push back the inherently dangerous native life, that's a nice twist for a fantasy world.


    Joramy -- is this the same version of Joramy that I think I've seen referenced in the deity threads? Love her story here, and I want to know what happened to Libertaria. There's something very believable and very cool about a goddess of fire, pirates, and democracy whose followers light fuses in their hair or hats when going into battle.
    It is indeed the same Joramy mentioned in Erythnul's entry:

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant
    Mainstream theology has it that divinity cannot be created or destroyed. However, it can be divided, devoured, hidden, given away, and so forth. So, you can kill a god, destroying their body and identity, but you can't destroy their portfolio or their divine essence. The energy has to and will go somewhere. In the case of Joramy and Erythnul, they inherited parts of the old god of fire (which, like all of the portfolios, had a good deal more than just fire in it).
    Note this is also what happened with Bahamut and Tiamat (who inherited parts of the world serpent and goddess of the Travel domain, Io).
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2021-01-04 at 03:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowhelm
    Your builds and build approach has been inspirational to me when making my characters (...) Every one of your posts I've seen has also seemed considered, rational, and polite.
    Some of my Stuff:
    An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF

    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    I hope this isn't asking too much, but do you have any notes or information you could share about Yurtrus, the god of disease and healing? I have a similar god in my setting, and a play him like Nurgle, a fatherly plague god who "blesses" his children with disease and deformities.
    Last edited by Erik the Bard; 2021-01-08 at 05:52 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    All hope and faith fuels Maglubiyet, and Maglubiyet sought power so that the gods could never harm him again. But what creates hope? Surely not fulfillment, for fulfillment reduces yearning. What creates faith? Surely not information, for evidence reduces the need for faith. To maximize hope, there must be oppression. To maximize faith, there must be ignorance.
    I've known your work for a long time. This is one of the best (scariest) things you've ever written.

    40k wishes its evil god of hope was HALF this sinister.
    Last edited by Dagda Mor; 2021-01-08 at 10:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    The "Howling Sea" campaign has really placed a spotlight on the religions of Maglubiyet, Joramy, Vecna, Erythnul, and the Deep Ones thus far.
    As I watch your work and gather fragments of lore about gods without full entries in your pantheon yet, it seems that Vecna is among 3 gods that are no mentioned elsewhere. So, can we hope for a bit of Vecna (yeah, pun intended ) along this latest notes?
    Bloody Brewery (D&D 5e): Elements monk as partial caster // 3.5 SRD Cleric domains overhaul // Bardic Music - Invocations-like songs // Chromatic Orb - retro style // Assassin features replace // Character sheet // Human alternative (5 subraces) // Way of Peace - monk subclass

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Lolth, Lady Luck

    In one of my campaign, it was an OOC running joke that Vecna, the god of secrets, does not exist and no one has ever heard of him.

    Edit: one of his cults actually showed up one time. That specific cult actually saw it as their duty to save the world by keeping dangerous knowledge safe, especially the true names of various old ones and demons. They only very occasionally used them to make themselves more powerful.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2021-01-09 at 08:12 PM.
    "In dark times, should the stars also go out?"

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