Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. V: You Joined the Cavalry.

[Kato]

Yeah, pretty happy with the new episode. Not sure where they are going with the looking glass.. I'd rather it doesn't get used but we'll see. I'm not gonna complain if they make good use of it.

Also: Fitz, the romantic. Hah! Well, I guess it fits... okay, you may shoot me now.


So, we will see if Russian gets to do anything relevant or not. I mean, they can't keep this whole Hydra thing running forever, they'll have to get out one of these days...

[Zalabim]

I was really hoping they'd flash the logo back to normal at the end of the episode. It would have been the perfect moment to do it right after Coulson's speech. I did like the use of the color filters to show Jemma and Trip's team in the Framework while Anton and his team were working in the real oil rig.

Spoiler: When You Wish Upon A Star...

Show

Awww. Aida just wants to be a real girl.

But if all she wants is a physical body, why go to all the hassle of building the Darkhold device? We already have 3D bioprinting, and given that S.H.I.E.L.D. technology is ten or twenty years ahead of real-world applications, it seems likely that the MCU would have everything Aida needs to print herself a body.

Presumably the sticking point is the brain—but since she can already create photonic brains (or positronic, or whatever they were) for the LMDs, I’m not sure why she would want an organic brain, especially since she’s apparently planning to “improve” her new body anyway.

The important thing for Aida is that she will finally have a human's free will. It doesn't sound like it'll actually be a human capability body, but something stronger than human (which Fitz believes Ophelia to be). Right now Aida is operating under some mandates, in order of priority: Keep Radcliffe alive. Keep the Framework running. Keep Radcliffe's friends in SHIELD alive. As evidenced with the Superior, she cannot program or build her way around these imperatives. That's why she needed Fitz to build Project Looking Glass. It's just the reverse of the kind of changes they made when they made Maybot. She'll be herself but with a few lines of code taken out, and it'll work because someone else made it.

Spoiler: Where Is Aida Going With This?

Show

So, still confused about Aida.

We have two distinct instances, Aida and Ophelia, one of whom created the Framework and one who runs it from within.

Aida can apparently dip into Ophelia’s consciousness, using her as an avatar to check directly on the Framework. It’s not clear if Aida shares headspace with Ophelia or if she suppresses or subsumes Ophelia when she’s in town.

So I’m not sure if the reverse will be true as well. While lying broken and paralyzed in her bed, Ophelia told Fitz that she’d been hoping he would join her in the other world. What exactly does this mean? Will Ophelia upload and merge with Aida in the new organic body? Will she gain her own body outside the Framework?

And either way, how is Fitz going to join her? Will there be a separate body for Fitz, or is Aida hoping that Fitz will wake in the real world with his Hydra identity?

Aida and Ophelia are the same entity. Aida jacks in to pretend to be Ophelia. I'm not sure if she's heading for making an evil clone Fitz or just wants to wake him up as HydraFitz in the real (alternate) world. I would guess that evil clone makes the most sense.

[random11]

Am I the only one here who really dislikes this entire "Framework" story line?

Let's start with the world itself: There is no way I can believe that after a difference of ONE inhuman event, the entire country will adopt Hydra in such a short time.
Don;t get me wrong, I can see how a country might panic from a terrorist event and change policies "for security", but such a short time is certainly not enough to change the entire education system and salute to a flag with a freaking octopus and skulls!
You know what might have worked? How about SHIELD itself being corrupted from the inside because of Hydra agents, and this event could push the corruption just enough to control basic policies in the same name and guise. Just like it almost happened.
But there are two reasons why it was Hydra instead of corrupted SHIELD: The first is that it's a relatively short arc and the viewers need to immediately identify the bad guys, the second is to push this "Lady Hydra" role to get some fan bonus points.

Second Issue I have should be obvious since it was directly stated by the main characters: There is hardly any real point for anything other than survival of the real characters.
Culson's speech in the TV station could have been impressive in a story about uncovering Hydra in the real world, but meaningless in the Framework that will probably either be deleted or forgotten in the next few episodes.

Speaking of the TV station scene, boy the rebels sure are fast. One minute after a five minute TV news article and they are all there, right outside the door.
That's impressive, I would hardly have time to get dressed, and they already saw the piece, decided it was real, and drove all the way to the TV station.

Seriously, can we get out of the Framework and deal with actual enemies?

[JadedDM]

There is no way I can believe that after a difference of ONE inhuman event, the entire country will adopt Hydra in such a short time.

Well, it wasn't just the one event (I assume you mean the Inhuman attack on Cambridge). It was also Coulson never joining SHIELD, Fitz being close with his father (and Simmons dying), etc.

Speaking of the TV station scene, boy the rebels sure are fast. One minute after a five minute TV news article and they are all there, right outside the door.
That's impressive, I would hardly have time to get dressed, and they already saw the piece, decided it was real, and drove all the way to the TV station.

That part kind of bugged me, too. Even if they were within that very neighborhood, they would have had to left home before the broadcast even finished.

[random11]

Well, it wasn't just the one event (I assume you mean the Inhuman attack on Cambridge). It was also Coulson never joining SHIELD, Fitz being close with his father (and Simmons dying), etc.

It still doesn't add up.
It takes a lot more time to turn the population so much that they will adopt the "octopus with skull" rulers.
I guess that if we as fans put our minds into it, we can come up with a lengthy and detailed story of how it happened instead of the more likely scenario which is corrupted SHIELD agency.
But regardless of what we invent, it doesn't change the fact that the writers here used Hydra not as a likely event, but to give us a known enemy without explaining anything, and throw Lady Hydra as a bonus.

[TheOldCrow]

Let's start with the world itself: There is no way I can believe that after a difference of ONE inhuman event, the entire country will adopt Hydra in such a short time.

I think the biggest factor is that Aida regrets not being human (and having free will), and so in the framework we have the human Ophelia who never existed in the real world, and Radcliffe even points out to her that she has been gaming the system to get her way. Her meddling is probably the biggest factor in how the Framework world is shaped.

The second thing I think is happening is that the "one regret" thing is in the Frameworks programming, and is even automatically applied to NPCs.

Spoiler: last ep

Show

NPC Ward mentions that it is Hand who recruited him, and so he never fell under Garrett's influence in this reality. Hand recruiting him would predate the inhuman event, so this points to the possibility of many many "one regret" changes having happened, some of them from events decades old.

[LaZodiac]

she has been gaming the system to get her way. Her meddling is probably the biggest factor in how the Framework world is shaped.

I mean, it's this right here. She fixed their one regrets, yeah, but that just provides a...ahem, framework for what the world will be afterward. Coulson never joins Shield, thus "is a history teacher". The other details are filled in by Aida since she has to, according to Radcliffe, restructure the entire simulation when adding in anyone new.

[Joran]

It still doesn't add up.
It takes a lot more time to turn the population so much that they will adopt the "octopus with skull" rulers.
I guess that if we as fans put our minds into it, we can come up with a lengthy and detailed story of how it happened instead of the more likely scenario which is corrupted SHIELD agency.
But regardless of what we invent, it doesn't change the fact that the writers here used Hydra not as a likely event, but to give us a known enemy without explaining anything, and throw Lady Hydra as a bonus.

I mean, that's the fun part right? That's the reason why the Superior was so obsessed with Coulson; it's because Coulson was at the center of a lot of SHIELD activity. Without him, that's a good 30 years of SHIELD history completely changed and the entirety of the MCU changed.

So, you can start thinking about whether Tony Stark would still be Ironman, whether Thor is wandering around the desert, what happened during the battle of New York (or if it even happened). That's the fun part of these alternate universe episodes. Having the Battle of New York (including maybe the nuking of NYC) and then the Inhuman Incident could lead to SHIELD's name being tarnished enough for the public to want a fresh start.

Another wildcard is that Aida inserted herself and Fitz's dad into Hydra's leadership structure, so it's possible she's made other alterations in the past.

[dehro]

I do think Aida has a second item on her agenda...

Spoiler

Show

the darkhold has made her conscious and also in love with Fitz..who basically was instrumental in bringing her to life... which is why she's tampered with his framework persona to the extent of turning him into a killer. Bringing him thight with his dad is a way to control him and bringing him closer to her. When she goes full human, she'll want him with her...and I expect that that will be her downfall

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I mean, that's the fun part right? That's the reason why the Superior was so obsessed with Coulson; it's because Coulson was at the center of a lot of SHIELD activity. Without him, that's a good 30 years of SHIELD history completely changed and the entirety of the MCU changed.

So, you can start thinking about whether Tony Stark would still be Ironman, whether Thor is wandering around the desert, what happened during the battle of New York (or if it even happened). That's the fun part of these alternate universe episodes. Having the Battle of New York (including maybe the nuking of NYC) and then the Inhuman Incident could lead to SHIELD's name being tarnished enough for the public to want a fresh start.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

• Thor was killed on his way to the hammer. Without him, Loki would not have taken an interest on Earth, so no Chitauri invasion
• Captain America is still lost in the iceberg
• Iron Man probably happened, but then was killed by the power source poisoning his bloodstream before he had the chance to figure out his dad's element. Further advancements, without Tony Stark, are simply not happening.

The rest are less important; they are either actively hiding, or have moved on from Hydra. It is entirely possible that Hydra did perform an Insight-equivalent project (without the helicarriers, since those need Tony Stark) that eliminated some of the other power-players.

Grey Wolf

[Giggling Ghast]

Let's start with the world itself: There is no way I can believe that after a difference of ONE inhuman event, the entire country will adopt Hydra in such a short time.
Don;t get me wrong, I can see how a country might panic from a terrorist event and change policies "for security", but such a short time is certainly not enough to change the entire education system and salute to a flag with a freaking octopus and skulls!

Well, prior to their coming out in "Civil War", Hydra had also been working behind the scenes for decades to make the world a more chaotic place so that people would be more agreeable to surrendering their rights.

But honestly, I have little difficulty believing the citizenry would quickly accept fascism in response to one bad incident. How does that Men in Black quote go?

"A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But honestly, I have little difficulty believing the citizenry would quickly accept fascism in response to one bad incident. How does that Men in Black quote go?

Also, there are, unfortunately, many Real World examples of similar movements coming into power. We cannot discuss them here because politics, but it doesn't take that much, or that long.

GW

[Joran]

Also, there are, unfortunately, many Real World examples of similar movements coming into power. We cannot discuss them here because politics, but it doesn't take that much, or that long.

GW

Also, the MCU is a universe where mind control literally exists and has been used.

P.S. We need to start thinking of Thread names, we're on the 50th page.

[Swaoeaeieu]

P.S. We need to start thinking of Thread names, we're on the 50th page.

Agentes of SHIELD VI: It's never not Hydra

[dehro]

Agents of SHIELD VI: it's the Framework of the MCU

[theNater]

Agents of SHIELD VI: I'm an Agent of SHIELD

Agentes of SHIELD VI: It's never not Hydra

Agents of SHIELD VI: It's never not Brett Dalton

[LaZodiac]

Agents of SHIELD VI: I'm an Agent of SHIELD

Honestly, it's this one.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Agents of SHIELD VI: I'm an Agent of SHIELD


Agents of SHIELD VI: It's never not Brett Dalton

The Brett Dalton Show VI: Phil Coulson is ok too i guess.

[Giggling Ghast]

New thread!

Agents of SHIELD V: Back in Kansas