Ranger cross.

[Rowanomicon]

OK, I want to make a Ranger cross, but I definitely don't want more than 8 levels of Ranger.
I think levels of Barbarian and Levels of Rogue would both be worth it.
My two options are 1 level of Barbarian and as many levels of Rogue as I want
or up to 3 levels of Rogue and as many levels of Barbarian that I want.
Perhaps up to 3 levels in Paladin (of Freedom)?
Are there any feats that would make it worth dipping into Fighter for 1 or 2 levels?
What PrCs might be good?

[Serpentine]

I wouldn't be able to offer any suggestions without knowing what sort of a character concept you're after, but that's the way my group works. I'd suggest that if you're thinking ranger-rogue, a scout (PHB2?) would be just as good/better. Barbarian/ranger could be very interesting, but as I said, it really depends what you're going for.

[Rad]

Scouts are in Complete Adventurer and are a very well built new class that fits the ranger/rogue place nicely although it is usually best with a bow than a sword. This means that the mix with the barbarian is maybe not ideal and, more importantly, it might not be what you were thinking about.
What kind of character do you want exactly? Do you need skills? Track? are you fighting with a bow, two weapons or one weapon? Do you care about the nature flavor?

Hope this helps

EDIT: Consider the wilderness rogue

[HOO]

I agree with scout. Especially if you are using a bow and add Swift Hunter (from Compl. Scoundrel.). Just 3 levels of scout, take the feat and your levels of ranger and scout stack for skirmish and favored enemy.

An alternative way for a TWF ranger would be the alternative class feature for the scout (see cityscape web enhancement) called riposte. I've tried it and it worked perfectly well for my ranger/scout. It's even better if your DM allows to use Swift Hunter/skirmish dependend feats (because technically it not skirmish anymore..)

Barbarian is a tricky issue here. There aren't any synergies (at least for me). Rage boost your strength but also lowers your AC and won't help a TWF Ranger that much (light armor, twf and rage), except you've got a floating shield ready.
It could help an archer if he is pressed into melee, but then something went terribly wrong in the first place.

Rogue levels will add some nice skills (as does the scout) and add some urban flavour if that is what you want. Sneak attack is obviously a nice feature no matter if twf or archery.

Personally my bet is with scout and swift hunter (or the riposte variant if your DM allows ;) ) but it all depends on your style/party.

[Leon]

if you go go down the TWF line, the Tempest PrC (Complete Adventurer) or Bloodclaw Master (Tome of Battle)

[squidthingy]

Try The Order of the Bow Initiate(complete warrior) as well as rouge. The OotBI gets an ability called 'Ranged Precision' which should stack with sneak attack

Ranged Precision(Ex): As a standard action, an initiate may make a single precisiely aimed attack with a ranged weapon, dealing an extra 1d8 points of damage if the attack hits. When making a ranged precision attack, an initiate must be within 30ft of his target. An initiates ranged precision attack only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits ( including plants, constructs,the undead and oozes and incorpreal creatures) is not vulnerable to a ranged precision attack, and any item or ability taht protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the extra damage. Unlike a rogue's Sneak Attack, the initiates target does not have to be falt-footed or denied it's DEX bonus to it's AC, but if it is, add the damage from your ranged precision with your sneak attack damage if you have it. Treat ranged precision as sneak attack in all other ways though.
The initiates bonus to damage on ranged precision attacks increase by +1d8 every two levels. An initiate can only use this ability with a ranged weapon for which he has taken the weapon focus feat.

[squidthingy]

or just do ranger, then take deepwood sniper(masters of the wild), actually you should check out masters of the wild book if you can, it has pretiege classes for barbarians druids and rangers(mostly)

[LotharBot]

I'm currently running a Ranger 15 / Rogue 3 / Barbarian 1, with plans to take the next 2 levels as rogue (which should take me to the end of this campaign, but after a short break, I expect someone to decide it's time to play epic.)

Barbarian is a good dip for fast movement and rage, which can be fun to role-play with favored enemies (scream "DIEEEEEEEE goblins!" as your eyes get all bloodshot.) Rogue is good to take an odd number of levels for the bonus damage dice (great with TWF) and skill points. There's some good skill synergy between rogue and ranger -- all of the stealth skills are common, and you can get broader knowledge and tracking abilities (Survival and Gather Info) than with either class alone.

Looking at Scout + Swift Hunter, I think that may fit just as well as Rogue mechanically. It's a slightly different character concept, though.

What exactly do you want to do with this character?

[Dr. Weasel]

Scout 3/Barbarian 2/Ranger X if you can get the Complete Champion Lion Totem variant and the Swift Tracker feat is probably the best way to go if you want to two-weapon fight. If you don't play with multiclass penalties, ditch the second Barb level.

For an archer, Scout 3/Ranger X is pretty easy and works rather well.

[Rowanomicon]

I was thinking of doing Sword & Board/TWF with the shield being the off-hand weapon.
I want this guy to be hero/leader type.
However I also want the wilderness feel and sneaky/skilled aspect.

I don't have much to work with in terms of splat books: SRD, CrystalKeep, DMG2, Draconomicon, MM3, DragonLance Setting.

The more I look at it the more I think I'm just going to go with almost straight Ranger with possible dips into Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter, and/or Paladin.
What dips (and how many levels) do you think are worth it?
Multiclass penalties aren't an issue as this guy will be a major NPC (I'm the DM).

Also what races (or templates) do you all sugest (even uncommon ones) keeping in mind the resources I have?

[LotharBot]

Dips:

Barbarian - 1 or 2 levels. Fast movement and rage at first level; uncanny dodge at second.
Fighter - 1, 2, or 4 levels. Depends on how many feats you need.
Paladin - never been a fan of paladin as a dip class. I guess if you've got the CHA and you want to do it, go to 2 for Divine Grace.
Rogue - 1, 3, 4, 5, or more (odd #'d) levels. Uncanny dodge at 4th, and sneak attack dice at any of the odd levels. But every 4 levels of Rogue you take costs you 1 point of BAB.

What level is your guy?

I really like my Ranger 15 / Rogue 3 / Barbarian 1 (soon to be Ranger 15 / Rogue 5 / Barbarian 1.) Ranger X / Rogue 4 / Barbarian 2 gets you improved uncanny dodge, but that doesn't really buy you much unless you have a lot of Rogue and Barbarian levels. Personally, I'd recommend just the 1 level of Barbarian, and 4+ of Rogue, to get uncanny dodge and adequate skill points in the right skills.

Ranger gives you the TWF feats you want, and let you be sneaky/skilled. Use the skill points from your Rogue levels to pick up the diplomacy and other leader-type skills you want. The Barbarian level is just to give you the fast movement/rage stuff; if you don't want that, swap in some Fighter and take feats that fit your concept better.

As for races, a plain human or elf could fit both the "wilderness" and the "leader" parts of the equation. A dwarf or halfling would be a little bit of a stretch, but you can probably make it work. If you take a paladin dip, go with aasimar (planetouched I think; monster manual / SRD).

[Rowanomicon]

I might go Ranger 9 / Barbarian 4 / Rogue 7
I want to map out all 20 level of the build, including the order in which things will be taken.
Might go Ranger 9 / Rogue 4 / Paladin 3 / Fighter 2 / Barbarian 2

Human, Elf, and Half-Elf are the obvious race choices.
Aasimar is an interesting idea.

[Person_Man]

What do you want to do?

What books do you have access to?

Without knowing this, its hard to give advice.

Rangers have benefited greatly from various expansions, especially the Spell Compendium, which essentially puts them on par with the Psychic Warrior. If you multi-class with a Ranger, you want to do so very early. Otherwise you're just wasting class levels accumulating low level spells and bonuses to your animal companion, which will become useless at higher levels.

[Rowanomicon]

I was thinking of doing Sword & Board/TWF with the shield being the off-hand weapon.
I want this guy to be hero/leader type.
However I also want the wilderness feel and sneaky/skilled aspect.

I don't have much to work with in terms of splat books: SRD, CrystalKeep, DMG2, Draconomicon, MM3, DragonLance Setting.

Multiclass penalties aren't an issue as this guy will be a major NPC (I'm the DM).

Sadly that's all I really have access too (except other free online stuff).

He's going to be a hero on a quest that the PCs either meet several times along the way or help out for a bit, depending on what happens.

[Draz74]

I don't have much to work with in terms of splat books: SRD, CrystalKeep, DMG2, Draconomicon, MM3, DragonLance Setting.

If you can use Crystal Keep, then you should be able to use other websites' stuff too (as long as it's WOTC material). Besides the Wizards' web site itself, check out Dandello's Feats. It has some of the feats (especially Swift Hunter et al from the Complete Scoundrel) that people have been recommending to you.

[Rowanomicon]

Yeah, well of course I can use any free web content.
Thanks, I'll bookmark that site.

[magicwalker]

Yeah, if you are going to go barbarian- I would suggest going with a variant so you can pick up some synergy with new abilities/feats, because I don't think that base class barbarian blends too nicely with ranger.

[Spiryt]

Ok Rowanomicon i will hideously make use of this topic, beacuse i also want to play Ranger/Barb.

My main problem : Is Distracting Attack variant from PHB II worth taking. What i really hate in Ranger is damn animal companion
I'm a Ranger, not some trainer in illegal animal fighting.

[Rowanomicon]

Which varient would you suggest? A different totem? The Whirling Frenzy?

[Rasilak]

I'm a Ranger, not some trainer in illegal animal fighting.

Then just take some animal that doesn't do too much fighting (like Boo in Baldur's Gate...)

[Bassetking]

Which varient would you suggest? A different totem? The Whirling Frenzy?

Lion Totem.

Pick up Pounce in exchange for Fast Movement? Yes Please.

TWF builds are even more reliant on the execution of a Full Attack than a THF build.

[Rowanomicon]

Lion Totem.

Pick up Pounce in exchange for Fast Movement? Yes Please.

TWF builds are even more reliant on the execution of a Full Attack than a THF build.

Sounds good, and Whirling Frenzy would even add another attack (good idea?).

EDIT: Lion Totem doesn't get Pounce, sorry.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...mClassFeatures

Changing this up a little I'm now thinking:
Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Paladin 3 / Barbarian 1 / Rogue X
Thoughts?

[Tor the Fallen]

You may want to go for the Horizon Walker PrC, if only for a one level dip. The desert terrain mastery feature makes you immune to the fatigue effects of your rage, among other things. It's not a super-awesome prc, but fairly decent. Tremorsense, a full BAB, and dimension door once every 1d4 rounds would also be reason to stick it for 6 levels.

[Bassetking]

Sounds good, and Whirling Frenzy would even add another attack (good idea?).

EDIT: Lion Totem doesn't get Pounce, sorry.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...mClassFeatures

Changing this up a little I'm now thinking:
Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Paladin 3 / Barbarian 1 / Rogue X
Thoughts?

Lion Totem does get Pounce in Complete Champion. You exchange your increased movement for Pounce.

[Tor the Fallen]

Why paladin?

[Rowanomicon]

Well if you look at the abilities of the first 3 levels of Paladin they're all decently useful forever. The only one that really gets less useful over time is Lay on Hands, but if he has 15-16 Cha (which he will) he'll be able to spontaneously heal 9 HP. That's still kind auseful to save a dying PC even at mid-high levels. Smite evil wwont be as good as of a higher level Paladin but +3 Attack and +3 Damage is always useful. Plus then he can synergize Favoured Enemy, Rage, Smite Evil, and Sneak Attack.
Also it gives him more of the hero feel.

[Rad]

Well if you look at the abilities of the first 3 levels of Paladin they're all decently useful forever. The only one that really gets less useful over time is Lay on Hands, but if he has 15-16 Cha (which he will) he'll be able to spontaneously heal 9 HP. That's still kind auseful to save a dying PC even at mid-high levels. Smite evil wwont be as good as of a higher level Paladin but +3 Attack and +3 Damage is always useful. Plus then he can synergize Favoured Enemy, Rage, Smite Evil, and Sneak Attack.
Also it gives him more of the hero feel.

I would recommend the revised Knight of the Sword PrC... look if you can get Knightly Orders of Ansalon some way (assuming your LG character is going to be solamnic).

[Callix]

Of course, if your DM is going to play the XP penalties for multiclassing, some of those bulds will have 80+% penalties... Is it just me or don't people consider these things when optimising?

[LotharBot]

Of course, if your DM is going to play the XP penalties for multiclassing, some of those bulds will have 80+% penalties... Is it just me or don't people consider these things when optimising?

He mentioned before that:
1) he is the DM
2) this is a recurring NPC, not a PC, so he'll be levelling as the plot requires

Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Paladin 3 / Barbarian 1 / Rogue X

That's pretty complicated. Looks like you're basically taking every dip you can in order to get as many cool low-level powers as possible, without a lot of consideration for which powers actually make sense for your character. If I was a player in a game where an NPC like that kept showing up, I'd be seriously confused as to what he was about.

Barbarian + Paladin is an odd combo -- is your guy a calm and collected LG type, or a fly-off-the-handle-and-smashy-smash CG type? I'd recommend one or the other, not both.

I don't understand why you'd take Ranger 3. Endurance isn't a particularly good feat. Personally, I'd take Ranger 2 or Ranger 6, but nothing in between.

Do you have plans for specific feats to take with your 2 levels of fighter? If not, I'd recommend dumping those levels entirely and going for more class features from some other class -- you lose a lot of skill points for taking fighter, and don't gain much of anything unless you REALLY need those 2 feats for a particular build.

Consider these builds:
Ranger 2 or 6 / Paladin 3 / Rogue X -- the LG wilderness type; makes for a good heroic stalwart leader. Fearless, and quite possibly the type to use a two-handed sword and armor spikes with TWF.

Ranger 2 or 6 / Barbarian 1 or 4 / Rogue X -- the CG wilderness type; makes for a good courageous "first into battle" type. Especially good if you can get pounce with TWF and all those bonus dice from sneak attack.

Either one fits a coherent theme, without making your players go "WTF?" every time he busts out a new skill.

[Rowanomicon]

I'm thinking Ranger 8 / Barbarian 4 / Rogue 7
What PrC should I then do a one level dip into?
Dragon Disciple for d12 HP, 2+Int SP, +2 Fort, +2 Will, +1 Natural Armor (he'll wear no or light armor)
Duelist for the d10 HP, 4+Int SP, +1 BAB, +2 Ref, Canny Defense
Horizon Walker for d8 HP, 4+Int SP, +1 BAB, +2 Fort, Terrain Mastery
Shadow dancer for d8 HP, 6+Int SP, +2 Ref, Hide in Plain Sight
Or Rogue could just be 5 and then it'd be either Duelist of Horizon Walker for 3 levels.