I must have missed something...

[RTGoodman]

First, here's a bit from the SRD:

Weapon Finesse

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Note the emphasized part - has anyone else completely missed that? I've been playing D&D since right after 3.5 came out, and apparently every gaming group I've ever played with has missed it.

I thought at first that it was a misprint (my PHB is so old that there's a misprinted footnote that says you have to take Weapon Finesse separately for each weapon), but apparently this thing about taking a shield's check penalty on attacks is even in the SRD.

So, does anyone actually play with this rule? I'm don't know that many Finesse users employ shields, but it seems to me that this could be a bit harsh (especially at lower levels). I'm just not sure if it's broken to simply let players spend a feat to use Dex for attack rolls.

[Shift in Tone]

Its probably there to keep low level fighters from taking that feet and then lugging around the biggest thing they can get the DM to let them have. High armor and cover bonus from the shied and your Dex and then making Dex the to hit modifier instead of str is kinda ummm over the top.

[barawn]

That's only if you're nonproficient with shields.

Nonproficient with Armor Worn

A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.

[Tallis]

Yup, I definitely missed that. It's right there in my PHB though. Kinda makes sense I guess.
Of course most of the characters I've had that had weapon finesse didn't use shields anyway, so it wouldn't have made too much of a difference.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

That's only if you're nonproficient with shields.

No. This entry refers to using shields regardless of proficiency. It specifically refers to using shield while simultaneously using Weapon Finesse to apply your Dex bonus to an attack roll rather than your Strength bonus.

Somehow using a shield throws your finesse off. Don't ask me why.

Note that, should you deem it beneficial to do so, you can forgo using Weapon Finesse, once again applying Strength to your attack rolls, and keep yourself from applying the Armor Check penalty with shields.

[Leon]

Never noticed that, then again if im Finessing im normally not using a shield anyway

[Jimp]

I don't think I've ever played with that rule. That said, shields + finesse are rarely used anyway.

[Devils_Advocate]

Huh. I never noticed that before, either.

Mithral Shields: Not Just For Characters Without Shield Proficiency (And Arcane Spellcasters) Anymore!

[Yechezkiel]

I don't think I've ever played with that rule. That said, shields + finesse are rarely used anyway.

Thematically, the only finesse/shield combo might be the rapier and buckler, and if that's a masterwork buckler, it doesn't matter.

Our group always chalked that part of Weapon Finesse up to the theme/spirit of the feat.

[squidthingy]

I noticed that but like said before someone who is using a melee weapon and has a higher dex than strength is probaly a ranged melee most of the time/rouge

[cupkeyk]

Yeah, I knew that. Most finesse characters dual wield or use a masterwork light shield or buckler so it makes no difference.

Notice that you can shield bash with your light shield as a light weapon. I have seen a guy build Sophitia using a shield bashing finesse shortsword weilding dual wielder.

[Callix]

Still, a mithral large shield and mithral breastplate was probably not an option rogues were supposed to consider... especially when it gives them a new way to split AC bonuses.

[Leon]

why use a shield when you can use a +x Defending offhand weapon

[Behold_the_Void]

why use a shield when you can use a +x Defending offhand weapon

Because shields are a lot cheaper than Defending Weapons to enchant and offer a better overall AC bonus?

[Diggorian]

I ran into this making TWF finesse ranger for a pirate campaign. Was gonna do light shield and shortsword when I saw the fine print on the feat.

It kinda made sense to me. High Dex with finesse yields high attack mod and AC, a shield on top is kinda much. I dont think bucklers should have an armor check penalty personally.

I just did twin shortswords instead and started with the 2 weapon defense feats.

[Dark Tira]

I never noticed it before, but on the other hand I've never used a shield with an armor check penalty. I doubt the rule applies often anyways since most dex based characters seem to go with TWF.

[Rad]

It kinda made sense to me. High Dex with finesse yields high attack mod and AC, a shield on top is kinda much. I dont think bucklers should have an armor check penalty personally.

As pointed out, masterwork bucklers have no armor check penalty.

[TheOOB]

why use a shield when you can use a +x Defending offhand weapon

Because a +5 large shield of heavy fortification gives you +7 AC (35% reduction in accuracy for foes), makes you immune to crits and sneak attacks, and still leaves up to +5 worth of bonus abilities for your armor...and costs half as much as a weapon.

[Diggorian]

As pointed out, masterwork bucklers have no armor check penalty.

I know. I dont think bucklers should have an ACP, period.

[squidthingy]

No they do not

[Matthew]

I have to admit that I have never really noticed this before, either. However, it was part of the 3.0 version of that same Feat. I would also be willing to argue that technically, a Buckler is not a Shield (after all you need a separate Proficiency), which might go some way towards explaining the Rapier and Buckler Finesse Fighter.