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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Those of you who saw our free April Fool's Release yesterday might have been wondering what was up with the Ambu-lancer. Now that the national day of silliness has passed, I can finally answer that question.

    This right here is the playtest for a brand new Path of War base class, the dedicated savior of overzealous Warlords, stubborn Warders and overeager Stalkers everywhere:

    The Medic

    Complete with four archetypes (including the Ambu-lancer, also in this playtest), favored class bonuses, and new feats, the medic brings a unique style of aggressive in combat healing to the table. So read, critique and enjoy!

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    I fear ambu-lancer may be a bit too punny for a final release. Seems like there should be a suitable, more serious name, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    I fear ambu-lancer may be a bit too punny for a final release. Seems like there should be a suitable, more serious name, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
    It will likely stay the way it is because of the release of the way the two were released. Ambu-lancer needs to be kept as part of the playtest so that it can be properly updated and remain compatible with the final version of the medic.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Sorry for ruining your surprise, man.
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Glad this one's finally out the gate. I've always loved healer characters, and finally having a second good one to use is awesome
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Sorry for ruining your surprise, man.
    I was hoping someone would guess it, but I was also hoping that someone wouldn't link the reddit post

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Blame Keledrath, he's the one that made me hunt down where I heard it after I made an offhand comment in a game chat.

    Is the Medic supposed to have just one good save?

    The language in Witch Doctor should probably be tightened in the item creation sections; being able to craft the items doesn't mean much if they still don't have the spell to cast when working with trigger and completion items. Just adding something like "as if she had cast the spell while creating it" should be enough.
    Last edited by Ilorin Lorati; 2016-04-02 at 10:06 AM.
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Blame Keledrath, he's the one that made me hunt down where I heard it after I made an offhand comment in a game chat.
    I always do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Is the Medic supposed to have just one good save?
    Check the ability Cura Te Ipsum and tell me whether you think it needs two good saves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    The language in Witch Doctor should probably be tightened in the item creation sections; being able to craft the items doesn't mean much if they still don't have the spell to cast when working with trigger and completion items. Just adding something like "as if she had cast the spell while creating it" should be enough.
    I'll take a closer look at the wording, thanks.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    While I understand that DSP doesnt have anything against At-will healing, I would like to point out that there is no text stating that the medic cannot use the Triage ability outside of combat. I dont know if this was intentional.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    While I understand that DSP doesnt have anything against At-will healing, I would like to point out that there is no text stating that the medic cannot use the Triage ability outside of combat. I dont know if this was intentional.
    That wording is actually contained within the PoW definition of "encounter" which is

    An encounter is a period of time from when initiative begins (starting with the surprise round, if any) to the last initiative has ended and after a total time amount of one minute has elapsed without combat resuming. This means that martial disciples have had time to recover all expended maneuvers and abilities that are used and depleted within the span of an encounter.
    As it's a per encounter ability, it can only be used during an encounter. But I can see the need for reminder/clarification text, and that is something I'm working on with help from some of the other writers.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    That's what I get for reading without glasses, in bed, with a cat, before coffee. Sorry!

    I'm continuing to read.

    Angel of Mercy reminds me of a certain character in an upcoming video game. Intentional?

    This is just begging for a full bad touch / torture archetype (Sanguinist almost counts, but most poisons and diseases aren't fast enough to be useful in most combat situations).

    ...Can a small Ambu-Lancer pull a medium or larger character on their mount? (I guess the same applies to medium and large, as well) Poor puppies. D:
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    That's what I get for reading without glasses, in bed, with a cat, before coffee. Sorry!

    I'm continuing to read.

    Angel of Mercy reminds me of a certain character in an upcoming video game. Intentional?
    Since I don't know what video game you're referencing I'm going to say "no." Which videogame are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    This is just begging for a full bad touch / torture archetype (Sanguinist almost counts, but most poisons and diseases aren't fast enough to be useful in most combat situations).
    Sanguinist is about as bad touch as I want to get, it's worth noting that when they hit someone with a poison/disease it takes effect immediately and comes with a (probably) boosted save. Add on some Steel Serpent support and you're looking at some pretty bad "touches."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    ...Can a small Ambu-Lancer pull a medium or larger character on their mount? (I guess the same applies to medium and large, as well) Poor puppies. D:
    Right now there's no restriction like that, if only because it's one of those things that makes logical sense in the real world, but causes headaches due to in game expectations. It might change.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    Since I don't know what video game you're referencing I'm going to say "no." Which videogame are you referring to?
    http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/heroes/mercy/
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Definitely not, in that case.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    I was really hoping for something like this when I saw the new archetype yesterday, but I really didn't expect it to come this soon. I thought we were going to be in for a Steamflogger Boss-style "What does it mean?!" joke for a little while yet. Still, as someone who loves playing Chirurgeon Alchemists, more options for non-magical healing classes is always a good thing.

    That said, the class feels really lopsided in terms of its healing. Almost all of your healing abilities are tied to triage, and only the Angel of Mercy naturally picks up maneuvers that heal, so you wind up as a medic who has more abilities dedicated to hurting than healing, especially considering that you can freely replace all but your first two expertises with combat feats if you wanted. Building off of that, several of the medic abilities either can be used as combat tricks, such as using triage as pseudo-pounce, or are reliant on attacking, such as Cura Te Ipsum (which I'll come back to in a moment) or Combat Healing. The Medic ends up feeling way too much like a fighter that can occasionally pull out healing on the way to beating more face than an actual field medic.

    Going back to Cura Te Ipsum, it feels way out of character that the medic described as "not rattling easily" and "calm and dedicated". The ability basically reads as "The medic only really becomes brave after they've hit someone, and even then, only for a few seconds." It would make a lot more sense thematically to just give the medic a good Will save, and scrap this ability for one that helps the medic heal others (maybe bolstering their allies Will saves, representing the extra confidence of having a skilled healer on hand?)

    As a clarification thing on Improved Triage; Can the medic use one of the expertise slots to restore the normal healing effect? For example, a 5th level medic uses Improved Triage with Revitalizing Touch. Could the medic forgo adding another expertise effect to heal both the ability damage and hit point damage?

    Lastly, perhaps lower the prerequisite for the Plague Doctor feat? I don't really see what in there is worth needing 7 ranks in Heal, especially since it requires that you have successfully fought the disease before, requires another successful Heal check to activate, and even then, only gives a situational bonus. Besides, it seems criminal with Curse of the Crimson Throne getting a reboot in October to block a healer from picking up a disease fighting ability only after Seven Days to the Grave wraps up.

    Edit: Oh, and one other, really minor and nitpicky thing: Why Self-Taught as a starting age? Wouldn't Trained make more sense for a skilled doctor?
    Last edited by Kira_the_5th; 2016-04-02 at 01:49 PM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Liking the look of Sanguinist, potentially pretty scary damage wise. Max Wis, grab an Amulet of Might Fists with the Guided property, get Wis to hit and 2x Wis to damage (for the first hit until level 10, then every hit, then 2.5x Wis at level 20) or 3x Wis to your next strike with Wrathful Healing. Plus, you're pretty mobile with Triage giving swift action movement, so full attacks aren't that hard to get off as long as you've got another melee in your party.

    Add in self-injected poison for extra shenanigans. Bonus points in that you can use pretty much any poison regardless of type or onset period, you inject it all the same. Stock up on fast acting Con damage poisons (Black Lotus, Bunt Othur Fumes, Wyvern Poison) and go nuts with Steel Serpent maneuvers. Up to DC 36 (+13 from Wis, +3 from Steel Fang maneuver, 10 from levels) for each at level 20, dealing 1d3+1d4+1d6 Con damage and 1 Con drain if the target fails their saves, average 9 Con loss per round.

    Is there a limit to the number of poisons you can apply in a single attack? Or can you just apply as many as you've got stored?

    Do poisons requiring multiple saves still require multiple saves if applied through Blood Transfusion?

    How does the Invigorating Touch expertise work with Blood Transfusion?

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    I actually kinda share Kira's opinion on Cura Te Ipsum, now that I've spent some time in it, but I also like the flavor that their defenses are bolstered after doing something, so... dunno. Maybe give them defenses after they use Triage as well, so they're rewarded for their thing? I personally don't mind their healing abilities all tied into the base of Triage, having a plethora of separate heals would feel wonky.

    Strange to say, but something I'm also concerned about, with the re-clarified definition of encounter (I should have remembered that but it's been a while since I've really thought about it) is that the medic also seems to lack out of combat healing options unless they're a Witch Doctor or take the Life Oracle VMC or a level dip into Vitalist and play through mid levels as a Angel of Mercy - and the latter is basically infinite healing once you're there. Which, admittedly, isn't bad at the point in which you get it.

    Anyways, really what I'd like is for them to have something to heal reliably while out of an encounter, even if only a few times per day.

    Edit: Oh, and one other, really minor and nitpicky thing: Why Self-Taught as a starting age? Wouldn't Trained make more sense for a skilled doctor?]
    I agree with self-taught, in terms of age. The way I see it, Medics aren't skilled doctors - that's not what they do. It's the Medic's job to keep people alive long enough to get them to the doctors. They may not be strictly self-taught, but they're not trained as stringently as an actual doctor is.
    Last edited by Ilorin Lorati; 2016-04-02 at 05:08 PM.
    There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Yes
    yes
    yes
    this is amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergmo View Post
    What do you do when you fight an undead that turns into a spider that's filled with spiders that turns into spiders after trapping you in magical webbing? You scream, and you never stop.
    'Prax' is fine.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    So, I'm working on a longer response to address some of the points that were brought up. I will post appropriate replies as soon as I'm able. In the meantime, the following text has been added to the medic's triage ability. It should serve to improve their focus on emergency and in combat healing. Please let me know what you think:

    A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    I do like this, it will be nice to have another class that can actually do in-combat healing.

    It would be nice to have some higher level Expertises such as one to deal with level drain. Currently, you'll just start taking feats at mid levels.

    I don't see any text that actually limits you to one Expertise without Improved Triage.

    The Ambu-Lancer gets quite a bit without trading much away. As far as I can tell, you just lose two expertises and a use of Triage.

    Is Wings of Mercy supposed to replace anything?

    The Witchdoctor looks very weak. You need to spend money to get generally less effective healing and you lose out on all the non-triage expertises.

    The Sanguinist combines oddly with a source of unlimited healing. For instance, with a friend who has Elemental Flux Stance, I can spend an hour hitting him to get 600 points in my pool.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    I was really hoping for something like this when I saw the new archetype yesterday, but I really didn't expect it to come this soon. I thought we were going to be in for a Steamflogger Boss-style "What does it mean?!" joke for a little while yet. Still, as someone who loves playing Chirurgeon Alchemists, more options for non-magical healing classes is always a good thing.
    If you knew how long I've been waiting to get this thing in playtest you'd understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    That said, the class feels really lopsided in terms of its healing. Almost all of your healing abilities are tied to triage, and only the Angel of Mercy naturally picks up maneuvers that heal, so you wind up as a medic who has more abilities dedicated to hurting than healing, especially considering that you can freely replace all but your first two expertises with combat feats if you wanted. Building off of that, several of the medic abilities either can be used as combat tricks, such as using triage as pseudo-pounce, or are reliant on attacking, such as Cura Te Ipsum (which I'll come back to in a moment) or Combat Healing. The Medic ends up feeling way too much like a fighter that can occasionally pull out healing on the way to beating more face than an actual field medic.
    That's pretty deliberate. The medic can serve as a primary healer, but it's also a class that's built to hold its own in combat. Each of the archetypes cover different degrees on a scale of Primary Healer<------->DPR/Secondary healer. In a lot of ways, the medic's healing style functions much like a "tank" as opposed to a more traditional healer. They tank after the fact, but their actions are very much protective of their allies as opposed to interventionist. I think that's a word...

    Anyway, even within the basic medic class, there's a lot of room to build the medic to be more, or less, of a primary healer as you choose. You can trait or tradition swap to pick up Silver Crane, you can spend your expertises on combat feats and damage boosters, or you can spend most of them on healing and status effect removal. These options exist to help the medic fit into multiple different party compositions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    Going back to Cura Te Ipsum, it feels way out of character that the medic described as "not rattling easily" and "calm and dedicated". The ability basically reads as "The medic only really becomes brave after they've hit someone, and even then, only for a few seconds." It would make a lot more sense thematically to just give the medic a good Will save, and scrap this ability for one that helps the medic heal others (maybe bolstering their allies Will saves, representing the extra confidence of having a skilled healer on hand?)
    The medic is a WIS based initiator, so even with a poor base Will save, they're decently protected out of combat. It's once they get into combat that their training takes hold and they become decidedly more effective. It's like a battle trance or adrenaline rush kind of thing and it only lasts as long as the danger is present. Once the danger passes and everyone is ok, the medic can relax and let their guard down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    As a clarification thing on Improved Triage; Can the medic use one of the expertise slots to restore the normal healing effect? For example, a 5th level medic uses Improved Triage with Revitalizing Touch. Could the medic forgo adding another expertise effect to heal both the ability damage and hit point damage?
    No they cannot. Some of the medic's expertises were worded that way to enforce decision making and prioritization on the part of the medic. Given the medic's limited number of heals, I'm open to the possibility of changing that down the line, but currently it's a deliberate thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    Lastly, perhaps lower the prerequisite for the Plague Doctor feat? I don't really see what in there is worth needing 7 ranks in Heal, especially since it requires that you have successfully fought the disease before, requires another successful Heal check to activate, and even then, only gives a situational bonus. Besides, it seems criminal with Curse of the Crimson Throne getting a reboot in October to block a healer from picking up a disease fighting ability only after Seven Days to the Grave wraps up.
    Haven't played CoCT so I didn't realize it was relevant. That being said, I don't really write my material based on paizo's setting, as that would end up getting me sued. I'll take a look at lowering the requirements, but it was originally set that way to match with when similar spells came online.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kira_the_5th View Post
    Edit: Oh, and one other, really minor and nitpicky thing: Why Self-Taught as a starting age? Wouldn't Trained make more sense for a skilled doctor?
    From the medic's fluff:

    Many medics could have made fine clergymen or intellectuals, but due to their station or upbringing these options were not available to them. More commonly though, the role of medic is one that is thrust upon them. Someone needed to step up and do the job, and they quickly find a talent for the dirty work of treating wounds.
    Medics are not highly educated doctors. They are someone who had a tough duty thrust upon them and stepped up. They're good at it, potentially really good, but their training comes from what they learned themselves, not what was taught in an institution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    Liking the look of Sanguinist, potentially pretty scary damage wise. Max Wis, grab an Amulet of Might Fists with the Guided property, get Wis to hit and 2x Wis to damage (for the first hit until level 10, then every hit, then 2.5x Wis at level 20) or 3x Wis to your next strike with Wrathful Healing. Plus, you're pretty mobile with Triage giving swift action movement, so full attacks aren't that hard to get off as long as you've got another melee in your party.
    The sanguinist is intended to be the most aggressive medic archetype, so you're right about them being potentially high damage. However, there are some errors in your math. Guided is a 3.5 weapon property and not actually part of Pathfinder's ruleset. In addition, Guided wouldn't stack with Sanguinist's blood transfusion ability because in pathfinder untyped ability bonuses from the same ability score do not stack. Now, Wrathful Healing would still stack with Blood Transfusion or guided, because it's an insight bonus, and if guided is allowed in your games you could still use it for attack rolls, but guided+blood transfusion by themselves would not stack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    Add in self-injected poison for extra shenanigans. Bonus points in that you can use pretty much any poison regardless of type or onset period, you inject it all the same. Stock up on fast acting Con damage poisons (Black Lotus, Bunt Othur Fumes, Wyvern Poison) and go nuts with Steel Serpent maneuvers. Up to DC 36 (+13 from Wis, +3 from Steel Fang maneuver, 10 from levels) for each at level 20, dealing 1d3+1d4+1d6 Con damage and 1 Con drain if the target fails their saves, average 9 Con loss per round.
    This was more or less intentional and your numbers seem correct to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    Is there a limit to the number of poisons you can apply in a single attack? Or can you just apply as many as you've got stored?
    I should probably make the wording clear that it's only intended to be one poison or disease per attack. I will clear that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    Do poisons requiring multiple saves still require multiple saves if applied through Blood Transfusion?
    Yes they still require multiple saves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    How does the Invigorating Touch expertise work with Blood Transfusion?
    I will have to get back to you on that. I may allow it to just work normally, but it does ruin some of the fun of Blood Transfusion, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    I actually kinda share Kira's opinion on Cura Te Ipsum, now that I've spent some time in it, but I also like the flavor that their defenses are bolstered after doing something, so... dunno. Maybe give them defenses after they use Triage as well, so they're rewarded for their thing? I personally don't mind their healing abilities all tied into the base of Triage, having a plethora of separate heals would feel wonky.
    Cura Te Ipsum was part of a package intended to better integrate the maneuvers into the class. Like I mentioned above, I kind of think of it as a battle trance or adrenaline rush sort of deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Strange to say, but something I'm also concerned about, with the re-clarified definition of encounter (I should have remembered that but it's been a while since I've really thought about it) is that the medic also seems to lack out of combat healing options unless they're a Witch Doctor or take the Life Oracle VMC or a level dip into Vitalist and play through mid levels as a Angel of Mercy - and the latter is basically infinite healing once you're there. Which, admittedly, isn't bad at the point in which you get it.
    There's some very deliberate division between the archetypes on a scale of "More healing" vs. "More combat." Angel of Mercy is intended to be a top dog healer, while Sanguinist is the premiere damage dealing archetype for the medic. Witchdoctor is less good at healing in combat but has much better (read extant) options for healing out of combat. The base medic is somewhere in the middle, and the Ambu-lancer trades some healing for better tanking and mobility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    Anyways, really what I'd like is for them to have something to heal reliably while out of an encounter, even if only a few times per day.
    It might be doable, depending on feedback and playtesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilorin Lorati View Post
    I agree with self-taught, in terms of age. The way I see it, Medics aren't skilled doctors - that's not what they do. It's the Medic's job to keep people alive long enough to get them to the doctors. They're may not be strictly self-taught, but they're not trained as stringently as an actual doctor is.
    You hit the logic right on the nose here. This is exactly why they're self-taught.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    So, I'm working on a longer response to address some of the points that were brought up. I will post appropriate replies as soon as I'm able. In the meantime, the following text has been added to the medic's triage ability. It should serve to improve their focus on emergency and in combat healing. Please let me know what you think:
    A medic can only use this class feature to heal injuries gained during the current encounter; hit point damage, conditions, and other effects that the target had before ​initiative was rolled​ are unaffected by the triage and medic's expertise abilities.
    Does this mean that if an individual starts an encounter with 9/12 HP and then gets injured a further 3 HP, that they can only heal back up to 9 hitpoints? I feel like that may create one more unnecessary thing that the player will need to keep track of.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    How about Signature Skill (Heal) as a bonus feat?
    My Homebrew Material, mostly focusing on Dreamscarred Press's Path of War and psionics material!

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    Does this mean that if an individual starts an encounter with 9/12 HP and then gets injured a further 3 HP, that they can only heal back up to 9 hitpoints? I feel like that may create one more unnecessary thing that the player will need to keep track of.
    That is correct. Though the medic ought to be keeping track of HP anyway, and has a class feature which explicitly allows them to do just that: Medic's Training. And the medic has a full minute after the last enemy drops to spend any last triage uses to heal up her allies.

    There's also something of an expectation that other, non-triage healing options are available. Wands of cure light wounds are cheap and plentiful, and natural healing does exist, even though it's slow and not great.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    My two cents:

    • Maneuvers: It seems odd that they don't get Silver Crane natively, being the healing discipline and all.
    • Medic's Training: How many enemies does this affect per check? Since it's a free action, can it be repeated if you fail? If so, how long must you wait to try again?
    • Triage: Hmm. Something seems off about swift-action move-plus-heal right from level 1. I almost feel move action would be more appropriate. Full-round action to move double speed and heal all along the move is nifty.
    • Improvised Treatment: So at 2nd level you no longer need that free kit you start with? Yes I know it affects the DC so a kit is still better. Though on second look, you don't actually need the kit for treating disease or poison to begin with...
    • Resuscitation: But doesn't being restored to positive hit points already stabilize you?
    • Sanguinist's Blood Reserve: Is it just me or is this just restating information from Blood Transfusion?


    ...okay, maybe more than just two cents.

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by MilleniaAntares View Post
    How about Signature Skill (Heal) as a bonus feat?
    I don't know if I'd want that to be part of the core kit, considering Unchained is largely a set of intentionally optional rules. An Expertise option would be easier for a DM to just say no to. It would fix my personal concerns about out of combat healing, however the time it takes still leaves something to be desired.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    I agree with master4sword that triage should be shifted to a move action.

    Alicorn FCB references a class feature (Touch of Tranquility) that doesn't exist.

    Human and Aasimar FCBs should be brought down to +1/6 to match the already-printed FCBs that grant feat-equivalents (Human Rogue, Human Dread, Human Soulknife, etc).

    Witch Doctor looks pretty bad. It'd be decent if it still got expertises at 3/7/11/15/19.

    Ambu-Lance gets a mount (and the mount gets a useful feat) for free. That shouldn't happen. Mounted Maneuver Expertise seems too strong - wasn't there a big thing in the PoW:E threads about how mounted charging shouldn't be usable with maneuvers? It's also available to anyone through a 1-level Medic dip.

    Overall... meh. Nothing here really grabs me. If I wanted to be a combat medic I'd probably play a Zealot and get Silver Crane with a trait. The mechanics of Triage could make for an interesting core feature to build a class around, but restricting it to healing and debuff-removal kinda prevents that - it would be interesting to see a support character that can run from one ally to the next, handing out different buffs to each, but that would require abandoning or at least shifting away from the "medic" concept.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2016-04-02 at 05:16 PM.
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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    The sanguinist is intended to be the most aggressive medic archetype, so you're right about them being potentially high damage. However, there are some errors in your math. Guided is a 3.5 weapon property and not actually part of Pathfinder's ruleset. In addition, Guided wouldn't stack with Sanguinist's blood transfusion ability because in pathfinder untyped ability bonuses from the same ability score do not stack. Now, Wrathful Healing would still stack with Blood Transfusion or guided, because it's an insight bonus, and if guided is allowed in your games you could still use it for attack rolls, but guided+blood transfusion by themselves would not stack.
    That's what I get for googling 'Pathfinder Guided' and assuming that, because it was on the SRD, it'd be totally fine.

    There's still Guided Hand for Wis to hit, it's just a bit awkward to get. Not that a cleric dip would really be all that bad (shores up some of the out of combat healing business), I just don't like multiclassing if I can avoid it.

    As far as double-dipping, I guess I interpreted Blood Transfusion as a second damage event, separate from the actual attack damage roll. You might want to reword this part:

    Once per round, when the sanguinist makes a successful attack with an unarmed strike or natural attack, she can drain a number of additional hit points from her target equal to her initiation modifier. These hit points are stored in the sanguinist’s blood reserve.
    To something more along the lines of:

    Once per round, when the sanguinist makes a successful attack with an unarmed strike or natural attack, she can deal additional damage equal to her target equal to her initiation modifier on that attack and add that same amount to her blood reserve.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    I do like this, it will be nice to have another class that can actually do in-combat healing.

    It would be nice to have some higher level Expertises such as one to deal with level drain. Currently, you'll just start taking feats at mid levels.
    There's still room to add more expertises, though currently there's quite a few and many of them you'll want if you want to be an effective medic. The level gating on them is largely to match the levels that equivalent spells become available to casters.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    I don't see any text that actually limits you to one Expertise without Improved Triage.
    I'll see if I can make that language more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    The Ambu-Lancer gets quite a bit without trading much away. As far as I can tell, you just lose two expertises and a use of Triage.
    A use of triage is a significant amount of healing. The archetype does stretch the boundaries of good taste a bit since it was originally part of the April Augmented release. It's being included in the playtest in order to make sure it stays relevant with the class as it changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    Is Wings of Mercy supposed to replace anything?
    It currently does not replace anything, as it's mostly there to free up your stance, since it's very hard to give up Stance of the Crane Knight at higher levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    The Witchdoctor looks very weak. You need to spend money to get generally less effective healing and you lose out on all the non-triage expertises.
    They trade in combat healing for out of combat healing and additional effects that other medics don't get, on top of the ability to craft spell trigger and spell completion items.

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaC View Post
    The Sanguinist combines oddly with a source of unlimited healing. For instance, with a friend who has Elemental Flux Stance, I can spend an hour hitting him to get 600 points in my pool.
    Considering the damage you're probably dealing, it'd take a lot longer than an hour and you're likely to kill your friend doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MilleniaAntares View Post
    How about Signature Skill (Heal) as a bonus feat?
    I don't think it's a good idea to require the use of a book of optional rules in order to play the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    My two cents:

    Maneuvers: It seems odd that they don't get Silver Crane natively, being the healing discipline and all.
    Silver Crane is also the holy discipline and is explicitly supernatural beyond a level that the medic's design is willing to tolerate. Fortunately there are trait and tradition options, and an entire archetype for swapping into silver crane available.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    Medic's Training: How many enemies does this affect per check? Since it's a free action, can it be repeated if you fail? If so, how long must you wait to try again?
    One enemy per check, no retries.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    Triage: Hmm. Something seems off about swift-action move-plus-heal right from level 1. I almost feel move action would be more appropriate. Full-round action to move double speed and heal all along the move is nifty.
    It's a much more restricted version of Travel Devotion. And the amount of healing you can do is tightly controlled by your class level, capping at 9 uses per encounter.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    Improvised Treatment: So at 2nd level you no longer need that free kit you start with? Yes I know it affects the DC so a kit is still better. Though on second look, you don't actually need the kit for treating disease or poison to begin with...
    You need it for some stuff, and don't need it for others. The text is there as an explanation more than anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    Resuscitation: But doesn't being restored to positive hit points already stabilize you?
    Reminder text often proves useful and necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    Sanguinist's Blood Reserve: Is it just me or is this just restating information from Blood Transfusion?
    It does, but I ran into a problem of people skimming the sanguinist and not understanding what a blood reserve was or bothering to learn how it worked. Separating it into its own ability and repeating the information seemed to solve the issue, so I left it.

    Quote Originally Posted by master4sword View Post
    ...okay, maybe more than just two cents.
    That's fine. I've got plenty of room for more cents if you have them.

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    Default Re: [Dreamscarred Press] Presents: The MEDIC!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    I agree with master4sword that triage should be shifted to a move action.

    Alicorn FCB references a class feature (Touch of Tranquility) that doesn't exist.
    That's because it references the racial feature Touch of Tranquility that the Alicorn possesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Human and Aasimar FCBs should be brought down to +1/6 to match the already-printed FCBs that grant feat-equivalents (Human Rogue, Human Dread, Human Soulknife, etc).
    OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Witch Doctor looks pretty bad. It'd be decent if it still got expertises at 3/7/11/15/19.
    Witchdoctor's spell list provides nearly everything that you can get from expertises and then some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Ambu-Lance gets a mount (and the mount gets a useful feat) for free. That shouldn't happen. Mounted Maneuver Expertise seems too strong - wasn't there a big thing in the PoW:E threads about how mounted charging shouldn't be usable with maneuvers? It's also available to anyone through a 1-level Medic dip.
    You missed a lot of discussion then. I recommend taking a look at the systems and use chapter for Path of War: Expanded, and also probably reading up on the Hussar class template and Omen Rider harbinger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Overall... meh. Nothing here really grabs me. If I wanted to be a combat medic I'd probably play a Zealot and get Silver Crane with a trait. The mechanics of Triage could make for an interesting core feature to build a class around, but restricting it to healing and debuff-removal kinda prevents that - it would be interesting to see a support character that can run from one ally to the next, handing out different buffs to each, but that would require abandoning or at least shifting away from the "medic" concept.
    You should take a closer look at the medic's expertises. There are actually several buffs that you can hand out. This is also not a supernatural class. The zealot can do its thing well, but it is an entirely different breed of initiator from the medic.

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