Have I made this puzzle too hard?

[Togath]

So after introducing some coded notes in my campaign(offering just a sort of interesting semi-lore, and being completely optional)...
I'm worried I made them too difficult.

Now, currently, the party only has one, but... It should be solvable with that many anyway.
So I figured I'd check here, and see if people had any thoughts(as well as ideas for fun but solvable puzzles in the actual campaign)
It is the Carrion Crown adventure path, so a note or two may have minor spoilers(and for those who have run it, that might help with ideas for new puzzles to add[only relevant change I've made is making the fortune telling device only able to give yes, no, or maybe answers]);

(party has this one)

Spoiler: note 1

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Jldfdfoq sugidfrtdf
monpsudfrt rtdfbdqsdfsu
Hj dfwybdkmzbhjln

Spoiler: note 2

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Iknptvqsmodfxz sunp
Gizbqsqsnpvxrtsunpmodf npkmce
oqqshjrtnpmo modfzbqs
Qszbuwdfmofhqsnp Egnpqs
sugidf vxgihjrtoqdfqshjmofh
npmodfrt

Spoiler: note 3

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Sugidf npkmce
vxzbqscedfmo Gizbvxjlqszbmo
cehjdfce kmnpmofh
zbfhnp Lnhjfhgisu
gihjrt rtnptvkm
qsdflnzbhjmo Hj
vxnpmocedfqs

Spoiler: note 4

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Zb lnzbmo
egqsnpln Qszbuwdfmofhqsnp
egnptvmoce tvrt
sunpcezbxz Gidf
vxzbrt cehjrtoqnprtdfce
npeg

(originally planned for later on)

Spoiler: note ???

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eghjmoce Zbtvqsdfmo
Uwqsnpnpce zbhjce
qshjsutvzbkm sunp
bdzboqsutvzbdf rtnptvkm
egnpqs Bdzbqsqshjnpmo
Bdqsnpwxmo

Spoiler: Minor clues

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As a minor clue, there are no extra/removed letters, and stuff like ? or ! is replaced by words

[SethoMarkus]

I'm at work on break so didn't put too much effort into the notes after the first one, but I was able to translate Note 1 just looking at my phone with no paper to write down as I worked. If all the notes use the same/a similar cypher I see no reason it would be too difficult to break the code.

I missed any deeper meaning to the first note so if there is a riddle involved as well you've gotten me beat, but if it's just the cypher you should be fine.

Spoiler: Note 1

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Keep these notes secret I exclaim

[OldTrees1]

Well difficulty is relative so what puzzles your friends are good/bad at is relevant.

For instance I know about ciphers but am bad at decrpytion. I did check if the first one was a Caesar cipher(its not). So instead I assume it is a replacement cipher(evidence suggest it is not that simple). However there I get stuck, I could use the 2 letter word to guess at 2 replacements but there are no words short enough for me to test my guesses. If your players regularly do replacement ciphers then they probably are good enough for this puzzle.

However I would point out that you are not following the rule of 3. For any conclusion you want the PCs to draw, you should provide at least 3 clues.

[illyahr]

Be careful with puzzles and ciphers. Several of us on the forums could probably crack these at a glance but you may not have players who can. If your players don't do ciphers and puzzles very well, make sure there are other options for figuring them out. Examples include: access to libraries or people smart enough to help them, people who may have helped develop this particular code to decipher for them, access to law-enforcement agencies who have code-breakers in their employ, etc.

If they can figure out the clues, fine, but don't penalize the players for something that they may not be able to figure out. Always leave options for alternate solutions.

[Togath]

Regarding my player's experience... Most are not especially good at them, while one tends to be very skilled at ciphers...
The puzzling part is that this was, I thought, a super simple one.

SethoMarkus did get it right

Spoiler: explanation

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the "I exclaim" replaces !, while "I wonder" would replace ?

Regarding alternatives, that was why I came here.
It seems like I've made a cipher too hard to use in the actual campaign, though maybe by giving out hints I could make it more useable. As a plus, it, currently, would just reveal information the party already knows, with the first having essentially no meaning other than to set up the rest.

Spoiler: Solution

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For the solution... Each pair of letters represents the one between them in the English alphabet, looping at the end/beginning

[SethoMarkus]

Since it is for non-crucial information regarding the plot I wouldn't worry too much. If you are concerned, maybe have the first not be paired with the translation?

My group does use similar riddles and puzzles, especially 20 Questions style puzzles, so that may influence my advice. I also tend to be fairly good at pattern recognition (though tend to do poorly in conventional cryptograms).

[Togath]

Could work
And I am sort of curious what you mean by 20 questions style puzzles?

[SethoMarkus]

Like the game 20 Questions. One player (in this case the DM/NPC) thinks of a person, place, or thing, and the other players have 20 questions to try to figure out what the "it" player is thinking of. The "it" player can only answer with yes or no, and sometimes "sort of" or other middling answers, but that depends on the people playing. So, for example, if I am thinking of The Statue of Liberty and a player asks "Is it big?", I'd have to answer yes, but if someone asks "Does it move?" I'd answer no.

We use it in place of riddles with gate keepers or guardians, or change it up where the players (PCs) anser yes/no to questions and the NPC tries to trip us up.

[RazorChain]

Like the game 20 Questions. One player (in this case the DM/NPC) thinks of a person, place, or thing, and the other players have 20 questions to try to figure out what the "it" player is thinking of. The "it" player can only answer with yes or no, and sometimes "sort of" or other middling answers, but that depends on the people playing. So, for example, if I am thinking of The Statue of Liberty and a player asks "Is it big?", I'd have to answer yes, but if someone asks "Does it move?" I'd answer no.

We use it in place of riddles with gate keepers or guardians, or change it up where the players (PCs) anser yes/no to questions and the NPC tries to trip us up.

I just use roll to check if they can break a code (not wanting to waste our valuable game time). But riddles we love...so put down your tablets (we have mostly gone over to the dark side of PDF)

[Togath]

Riddles are seeming like the way to go.
And maybe simple-ish codes with decently available clues.
Really want to come up with excuses to include more stuff like that now~

[Gildedragon]

Like the game 20 Questions. One player (in this case the DM/NPC) thinks of a person, place, or thing, and the other players have 20 questions to try to figure out what the "it" player is thinking of. The "it" player can only answer with yes or no, and sometimes "sort of" or other middling answers, but that depends on the people playing. So, for example, if I am thinking of The Statue of Liberty and a player asks "Is it big?", I'd have to answer yes, but if someone asks "Does it move?" I'd answer no.

We use it in place of riddles with gate keepers or guardians, or change it up where the players (PCs) anser yes/no to questions and the NPC tries to trip us up.

This is great! An int check or relevant knowledge skill check dictating how many Qs they have

[KillianHawkeye]

I gotta admit, I didn't realize right away that I had to examine the letters in pairs. After that, normal substitution cipher started working, but it wasn't until the second note that I realized the actual significance of each pairing.

This is clever, probably too clever for my group, but I like clever things so I might have to steal this anyway.

[Togath]

How does this puzzle seem?

Spoiler: puzzle

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stimawttkom
ohsotohhefo
merraenr
ereknt
tea
il
ms
e
s

Spoiler: clue 1

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it's not a cipher

Spoiler: clue 2

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what are the living?

Spoiler: clue 3

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sometimes it pays to look from a different angle

[Gildedragon]

How does this puzzle seem?

Spoiler: puzzle

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stimawttkom
ohsotohhefo
merraenr
ereknt
tea
il
ms
e
s

Spoiler: clue 1

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it's not a cipher

Spoiler: clue 2

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what are the living?

Spoiler: clue 3

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sometimes it pays to look from a different angle

i think i got it but better formatting would make it a lot more readable

[Togath]

Sort of loses the puzzle aspect that way... maybe. Hmm.
Also realizing the phrase is nonsense. ^///^; I guess that's what I get for coming up with it when sleepy.

Spoiler: clearer

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s t i m a w t t k o m
o h s o t o h h e f o
m e r r a e n r
e r e k n t
t e a
i l
m s
e
s

edit: spaces do not work, apparently.

Spoiler: attempt 3

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s_t_i_m_a_w_t_t_k_o_m
o_h_s_o_t_o_h_h_e_f_o
m_e__r___r_a_e_n___r
e_r__e___k_n_______t
t_e________________a
i__________________l
m_________________s
e__________________
s__________________

edit 2: underscores are also a bit wonky

Spoiler: here's the answer then >_<

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"sometimes there is more at work than the ken of mortals" was the phrase

[Gildedragon]

Sort of loses the puzzle aspect that way... maybe. Hmm.
Also realizing the phrase is nonsense. ^///^; I guess that's what I get for coming up with it when sleepy.

Spoiler: clearer

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s t i m a w t t k o m
o h s o t o h h e f o
m e r r a e n r
e r e k n t
t e a
i l
m s
e
s

edit: spaces do not work, apparently.

Spoiler: attempt 3

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s_t_i_m_a_w_t_t_k_o_m
o_h_s_o_t_o_h_h_e_f_o
m_e__r___r_a_e_n___r
e_r__e___k_n_______t
t_e________________a
i__________________l
m_________________s
e__________________
s__________________

edit 2: underscores are also a bit wonky

Spoiler: here's the answer then >_<

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"sometimes there is more at work than the ken of mortals" was the phrase

the problem with this one is that the transformations into the puzzleform change so I was ending up with
sometimes therels ...

[Yora]

As a player this seems like something that would have me read books or go for a walk for an hour or two. Are you sure your players want to take an extended break doing logic puzzles? I think in most groups I played in, it would be decided that this is probably not useful in any way and continue with the game, while one player might keep the note and try to puzzle it out at home sometime next week.

[hifidelity2]

In the games I play and run we tend not to do puzzles like this. After all I don't have Cryptography as a skill. My Character might so if I was given this I would just ask to roll against my skill.

After all the DM doesn't ask me to ride a horse, with the reins between my teeth firing a bow over my shoulder - yet my Character can, or hand me a book in ancient Greek and expect me to read it, yet my Character can - so why ask me to solve a (complex) code

[Yora]

Finding a sage known for decyphering obscure texts and paying him a bag of coins might also work.

[OldTrees1]

How does this puzzle seem?

Spoiler: clue 3

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sometimes it pays to look from a different angle

It took me to clue 3. So this is a better fit for those less skilled in these kinds of puzzles.
The formatting slowed me significantly thereafter but that is unlikely to affect the face to face players.

[Douche]

The main problem I have with these overly simple coded messages is that you first have to translate the characters to Orcish, then if you compare the Orcish characters while cross referencing the Abyssal "diemrey nocutero" instances in the 3rd note, it gets lost in translation to the original Elvish because of regional dialects. Combine that with the fact that most plebs don't speak fluent Abyssal and you might have a problem.

But then again, I don't actually know your players so it's possible they are quite capable of translating into all these languages. But really, I'd probably add in a backward triple spellcheck bypass to make sure they don't just cheat by utilizing the 7th note cypher with the Tome of Ancient Secrets (to say nothing of the Necronomicon)

[OldTrees1]

The main problem I have with these overly simple coded messages is that you first have to translate the characters to Orcish, then if you compare the Orcish characters while cross referencing the Abyssal "diemrey nocutero" instances in the 3rd note, it gets lost in translation to the original Elvish because of regional dialects. Combine that with the fact that most plebs don't speak fluent Abyssal and you might have a problem.

But then again, I don't actually know your players so it's possible they are quite capable of translating into all these languages. But really, I'd probably add in a backward triple spellcheck bypass to make sure they don't just cheat by utilizing the 7th note cypher with the Tome of Ancient Secrets (to say nothing of the Necronomicon)

Not too good at the technobabble are you? You would not translate the characters into another language, you would decipher it in the foreign language it was written in (see the Enigma machine decoding WWII codes).

[Douche]

Not too good at the technobabble are you? You would not translate the characters into another language, you would decipher it in the foreign language it was written in (see the Enigma machine decoding WWII codes).

Looks like you didn't solve the puzzle or else you'd know what I was talking about.

Obviously you have to transcribe the alphabetic characters into their Orcish equivalent first. Then you can solve the cipher and afterwards translate it to Elvish, which would yield the intended message, but when translating it back to English it doesn't make any sense because of the linguistic dissension between the consonants of Moh's scale of hardness

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'm at work on break so didn't put too much effort into the notes after the first one, but I was able to translate Note 1 just looking at my phone with no paper to write down as I worked. If all the notes use the same/a similar cypher I see no reason it would be too difficult to break the code.

I missed any deeper meaning to the first note so if there is a riddle involved as well you've gotten me beat, but if it's just the cypher you should be fine.

Spoiler: Note 1

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Keep these notes secret I exclaim

Clever.

Honestly I don't think I would have figured that out. I noticed pretty much immediately that the words were too long for this to be any of the more common replacement cyphers. But the fact that every pair are exactly one letter from each other, that's something you have to see.

I think it might help if you somehow add some clues in the notes, make each note easier to decipher. Maybe it's a little easier with shorter words, repeated letters and letters from the beginning of the alfabet? (The capital letter in the Hj is a pretty good sneaky clue, I have to admit.)

Zb achjfh qsnptvmoce noeg zboqoqkmzbtvrtdf Hj rtzbxz, sunp sugjnprtdf vxginp fhdfsu lnxz ceqshjegsu.

Then again, maybe not. That looks like something that could be a replacement cypher...