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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default What spell level should this spell be?

    Hey guys, I created a spell, but I am a bit unsure, which spellslot it should use. I aim for a usage for a LV 1 slot.

    This is the final version, thank you all! :)

    Glowing weapon
    1st level Evocation spell
    Casting time: 1 action
    Range: touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 minute, concentration

    Choose a weapon, or 20 pieces of ammunition. They glow in divine light. Each time you hit an enemy, with the chosen weapon or ammunition, he makes a Wis-Saving throw against your Spellsave-DC. On a failed save, the target is blinded until the end of its next turn. After a failed saving throw, the creature becomes immune to additional blinding conditions caused by this spell. Also only one creature at a time can be blinded.
    Last edited by Feuerphoenix; 2016-04-18 at 03:34 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    If it's level 1, it should DEFINITELY be concentration. And even then, Blindness/Deafness is level 2.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Given the turn set up and the limit that you have to be the one to hit an enemy preventing you from giving it to an ally, a level 1 spot is not too unreasonable. I'm confused why it's a Dex save. Given that you're hitting a target with the divine weapon what are they dodging? Perhaps a con or wis save would be more appropriate?

    Edit;
    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    it should DEFINITELY be concentration.
    I second that.

    Another idea to balance it a bit is to make a creature who saves immune to the spell for 24 hours.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-04-16 at 01:36 PM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    As written? 3rd level. Not needing to concentrate on an effect that can force multiple saves in a round against a fairly harsh effect is powerful.

    With some tweaks like needing concentration, only forcing the save once per round, etc, probably level 2 or 1, depending on how hard you nerf it.
    Last edited by Foxhound438; 2016-04-16 at 07:42 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    I would add in concentration, and make it so that they don't save at all (after all, you already had to hit them once).

    If you do it like that, I would make it a level 2 spell. Blindness/Deafness is a level 2 spell, but only targets one creature. With this spell and multiple attacks you can change who is blinded each round and have more than one creature blinded - but I feel that it doesn't merit level 3.

    Hm... and change the name. To me, 'glow' is a benign effect. Maybe blinding weapon?

    As for the spell itself, I think it is cool. I can imagine a cleric, paladin, or even a ranger using it to debilitate enemies while his/her allies get advantage on them while they are blinded.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Hey guys Thank you for the feedback. It was a little late, of course the spell is concentration based, everything else would be hilarious.

    I chose dex as a save, because i imagined it was about reacting fast enough, to show in another direction, but wisdom looks even more reasonable.

    The immunity is a little Bit too punishing, I think. It is like one in the chamber for each enemy creature. I oriented myself on "ensnaring strike" to create this. And in my opinion, ensnaring Strike is even stronger than this spell, without limitation of usage per enemy. It eben deals damage and reduces the saving throw to checks. My spell has a finite end, of the condition, plus does not deal any damage. Or so I overlook sth?

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Make it concentration

    Allow a save

    It will be level 1 or 2

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    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    The immunity is a little Bit too punishing, I think. It is like one in the chamber for each enemy creature. I oriented myself on "ensnaring strike" to create this. And in my opinion, ensnaring Strike is even stronger than this spell, without limitation of usage per enemy. It eben deals damage and reduces the saving throw to checks. My spell has a finite end, of the condition, plus does not deal any damage. Or so I overlook sth?
    Ensnaring strike is a single use restrain and damage;
    The next time you hit a creature
    This is in contrast to spells that work every hit;
    you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a weapon attack

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    GanonBoar's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    I like it. I think you should some sort of spell slot scaling though: either duration or number of things you can affect.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    Ensnaring strike is a single use restrain and damage;

    This is in contrast to spells that work every hit;
    hihi, you are actually right. I always thought it's a one minute enhancement O.o

    now ES looks kinda crappy to me xD (compared to divine smite).


    @ender: Mmh is a save really needed? I mean of course I could say, that it may save at the start/end of its turn, but on the other end, the effect is already finite.



    As a compromise, how about rewriting the "everytime" to "the first time each round". I really want to keep the enhancement lasting longer than one round, but I get your point, that it is a little bit too good for that. (also I was thinking about, that after the first time it was blinded, it may have advantage for the next save)


    For scaling I was thinking about it. It was sth like,
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    " if you hit a fiend, celestial or undead, it is not blinded. Instead the next target of its action is treat as being under the effects of "protection from evil and good" spell." if you use a LV 3 or better SS.

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    for every spell slot used above the first, the enchanted weapon deals 1 radiant damage to a blinded enemy on a hit. (every hit AFTER a failed saving throw!)

    A longer duration would not make sense, because at least for me, using higher spellslots should be rewarding. If you have a long fight, you usually will take other spells, and going the risk for a higher saving throw for a duration longer then on minute is usually not worth it.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    As a compromise, how about rewriting the "everytime" to "the first time each round". I really want to keep the enhancement lasting longer than one round, but I get your point, that it is a little bit too good for that. (also I was thinking about, that after the first time it was blinded, it may have advantage for the next save)
    That doesn't change too much and is a more complex solution than necessary.

    Blindness/Deafness - 1 target until they save
    Glowing Weapon - Any target every turn

    The huge difference is that your spell can affect almost any number of targets and can be applied every turn, and yes there is a turn set up, but Blindness/Deafness only ever affects 1 person, until they save. As such they're on a similar power level I could go so far as to say your spell is stronger.

    If you want it to be a level 1 slot it needs the limit of a target saving then having immunity.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-04-17 at 07:49 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    mmh. how about a limit of 1 creature that can be affected at the same time, which you can raise by using a higher spell slot?

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    mmh. how about a limit of 1 creature that can be affected at the same time, which you can raise by using a higher spell slot?
    It's still a single level 1 slot that can keep applying (to different targets) blinded over and over and over again.

    Another option is to make it more of a Bladesinger spell, which given that you have to be the one attacking anyway fits the theme.

    Glowing Blade
    1st level evocation

    Casting time: 1 action
    Range: 5 feet
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 round

    As part of the action used to cast this spell you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spells range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and must make a Wisdom save, on a fail it becomes blinded until the end of its next turn.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    it is important to me, that the spell itself is not limited by a one time usage. Is this version more fitting?

    Glowing weapon
    1st level Evocation spell
    Casting time: 1 action
    Range: touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 minute, concentration

    Choose a weapon, or 20 pieces of ammunition. They glow in divine light. Each time you hit an enemy, with the chosen weapon or ammunition, he makes a Dex-Saving throw against your Spellsave-DC. On a failed save, the target is blinded until the end of its next turn. After a failed saving throw, the creature becomes immune to additional blinding conditions caused by this spell. Also only one creature at a time can be blinded.
    At Higher Levels:
    When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, ignore the creatures immunity after a failed save, and increase the number of creatures being able to be blinded by one per level.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Guys plz give me feedback so I can bring this to final version. :)

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    I know it's probably overkill, but I honestly feel it should be a 4th level spell slot. Blindness/deafness only hits one creature at second level. At 4th it hits 3. This hits 3 like... Every round. I'd make it 4th level with concentration.

    That being said, if you do bump it to 4th, I think you can comfortably increase the duration to 10 minutes at least.
    Last edited by Garresh; 2016-04-18 at 09:33 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garresh View Post

    Blindness/deafness only hits one creature at second level. At 4th it hits 3. This hits 3 like... Every round. I'd make it 4th level with concentration.
    Did you read;
    Each time you hit an enemy
    meaning the caster has to be the one to make the attack. You can't get a quiver enchanted and have a whole party use it, nor can you give the weapon to a more martial centric class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    it is important to me, that the spell itself is not limited by a one time usage. Is this version more fitting?

    Glowing weapon
    1st level Evocation spell
    Casting time: 1 action
    Range: touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 minute, concentration

    Choose a weapon, or 20 pieces of ammunition. They glow in divine light. Each time you hit an enemy, with the chosen weapon or ammunition, he makes a Dex-Saving throw against your Spellsave-DC. On a failed save, the target is blinded until the end of its next turn. After a failed saving throw, the creature becomes immune to additional blinding conditions caused by this spell. Also only one creature at a time can be blinded.
    At Higher Levels:
    When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, ignore the creatures immunity after a failed save, and increase the number of creatures being able to be blinded by one per level.
    It's a level one spell that scales up to be a stronger than the most similar level 2 spell. This is a level one spell with a very strong affect and no hit die limitation.

    I would get rid of the higher level slot, some spells are just not well designed to scale up and so don't have higher level casting.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    Did you read;

    meaning the caster has to be the one to make the attack. You can't get a quiver enchanted and have a whole party use it, nor can you give the weapon to a more martial centric class.
    I did. But a pure caster likely won't use this for exactly that reason. Swift Quiver is amazing, but I can't think of many wizards picking it up. No I'm thinking more about the potential interaction with crossbow mastery. If it's level 1, it'll be dip-able or just available to rangers at level 1. There's also abilities like Horde Breaker to consider. I mean a variant human who takes Crossbow Mastery could easily get off 4 shots of this a round by level 5, not to mention that just because you're tied up doesn't mean another caster couldn't haste you.

    3rd level might be okay if its a ranger spell, but any build with gish tendencies might just opt to use this instead of melee weapons for the first 5-10 levels because of how strong it. It's NOT a spell for pure casters, true. But any archer with spell progression or caster who goes martial(bladesinger?) is going to be punching well outside their level range on crowd control.

    @OP
    What classes are going to have access to this?

    A ranger could get this at level 3 no problem. Any other class it has to be level 4.
    Last edited by Garresh; 2016-04-18 at 10:15 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Ok then lets exclude the scaling ascpect, and leave it with the limitation of beeing immune plus only enemy at a Time.

    Spell itself is designed for a paladin subclass I posted a week of two earlier, which has the pure light in focus (But the actual version is already a different than this one. I will post it, when I think I can present it to you).

    This paladin oath was meant to focus on enhancing you group (mainly support). This spell was meant to fit into the light theme, which is presented by the blinding effect.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garresh View Post
    No I'm thinking more about the potential interaction with crossbow mastery. If it's level 1, it'll be dip-able or just available to rangers at level 1. There's also abilities like Horde Breaker to consider. I mean a variant human who takes Crossbow Mastery could easily get off 4 shots of this a round by level 5, not to mention that just because you're tied up doesn't mean another caster couldn't haste you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    Also only one creature at a time can be blinded.
    The OP should really update the OP.
    Last edited by Final Hyena; 2016-04-18 at 10:54 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feuerphoenix View Post
    Ok then lets exclude the scaling ascpect, and leave it with the limitation of beeing immune plus only enemy at a Time.
    So;

    Glowing weapon
    1st level Evocation spell
    Casting time: 1 action
    Range: touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 minute, concentration

    Choose a weapon, or 20 pieces of ammunition. They glow in divine light. Each time you hit an enemy, with the chosen weapon or ammunition, he makes a Wis-Saving throw against your Spellsave-DC. On a failed save, the target is blinded until the end of its next turn. After a failed saving throw, the creature becomes immune to additional blinding conditions caused by this spell. Also only one creature at a time can be blinded.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Yeah. With all those limitations it's a 1st level spell, definitely.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Thank you everyone :)

    @Final Hyena: Perfect, I directly changed it into the version you posted :)

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    what happens when somebody else takes a piece of glowing anmunition and uses it?

    To me, the spell reads as if you would enchant the weapon or ammunition, but then it does not make any sense that it uses your concentration or is limited to you.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: What spell level should this spell be?

    Then the effect doesn't work if you are Not the guy with the bow. I also chose ammunition, so another player who wants this on a ranged class does Not have to think about, whether he may change the spell and keep balance.

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