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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Hi again GiantITP,

    I have been working on some hybrid class rules for a while now, and last week i decided to split them into Gestallt and Hybrid class rules. The Gestallt Class Rules Supplement can be found here. In this version of combining two classes, you progress in both, but do not gain all the features from both. Instead, each level, you choose which features you get.

    Some adventurers specialize in one class, others take training in another to enhance their primary class. But there are also those that combine two classes, and pick what features they wish to train. These are called Hybrids.

    HIT POINTS
    Hit dice: You add both hit dice together, and halve it (rounded down to the nearest even sided die) to get your Hybrid class Hit Dice (e.g. a barbarian and sorcerer Hybrid gets (12+6)/2=9, which gets you a d8 Hit Die).
    Starting Hit points: The maximum of your Hit Die + your constitution modifier. (e.g. a barbarian and a sorcerer Hybrid gives a d8 Hit Die, so it gets 8 + its constitution modifier hp)
    Hit points after 1st level: Your Hit Die (or average rounded up) + your Constitution modifier per Hybrid level after 1st.

    PROFICIENCIES
    Armor: The combined armor proficiencies that multiclassing into the class would give (PHB p164).
    Weapons: The combined weapon proficiencies that multiclassing into the class would give (PHB p164).
    Tools: All tools given by both classes.

    Saving throws: Combine the two classes’ saving throws, and choose one common and one uncommon saving throw (common: dex, con, wis. Uncommon: str, int, cha).
    Skills: Combine the skills you may choose from. You get proficiency in two of those skills. If a class gives more skill proficiencies, you may choose them from that class’ options.


    FEATURES

    HybridLevel Max lvl for Features Scaling features as class level
    1 1 1
    2 2 2
    3 3 3
    4 Ability Score Increase 3
    5 3 4
    6 5 5
    7 5 5
    8 Ability Score Increase 6
    9 6 7
    10 7 8
    11 9 9
    12 Ability Score Increase 10
    13 10 11
    14 11 11
    15 13 12
    16 Ability Score Increase 13
    17 14 14
    18 15 15
    19 Ability Score Increase 15
    20 15 16

    Choosing features:
    Each time you level up, except when you gain an ASI, you may choose the features from one level from either of your Hybrid classes. The maximum level you can choose from is shown in the table above. You cannot chose the features from one hybrid class if you have twice as many levels chosen from that hybrid class than you have from the other.

    Spoiler: Design Notes
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    Made it go till 15 for features and 16 for scaling progression, so it ends at the end of the 3rd tier. This is so you have to choose between taking a dip or making a hybrid.

    Spoiler: Features that scale by class level (list)
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    Spellcasting for all classes
    Barbarian:
    - Rage
    Druid:
    - Wild shape
    Fighter:
    - Second Wind
    - Battlemaster superiority dice and maneuvers
    Monk:
    - Martial arts
    - Ki Points
    - Unarmored Movement
    - Elemental Disciplines
    Paladin:
    - Lay on Hands
    Rogue:
    - Sneak Attack
    Sorcerer:
    - Font of Magic
    Warlock:
    - Pact Magic
    - Invocations
    Wizard:
    - Arcane Recovery


    Specials at features:

    Feature’s granting Heavy Armor proficiency
    If you choose a feature that gives you heavy armor proficiency while you do not have medium armor proficiency, you instead gain armor proficiency one step higher than you currently have (none - light - medium - heavy)

    Features adding your spellcasting modifier to damage of spells
    If you choose two features that add your spellcasting modifier to the damage of spells you cast, you only add your spellcasting modifier once. If you have multiple spellcasting abilities, you may choose which one to add.

    Fighting Style
    You may only choose one feature that gives a fighting style from the first three class levels of both your hybrid classes.

    Channel Divinity
    If you choose both Channel Divinity features from both your hybrid classes, you get the options of both classes. You do not gain additional uses from both classes, but must choose one class and follow that progression.

    Unarmored Defence
    You may only choose one feature that gives Unarmored Defence from both your hybrid classes.

    ASI’s
    Some classes give an extra ASI aside from those in the table above. That ASI counts as a class feature, and you may choose it at the appropriate level listed in the table above. If both classes give an extra ASI at the same level, you may choose only one.

    Spellcasting
    Cantrips
    You follow the progression of ‘features that use scaling by class level’. If you choose both spellcasting features from both your hybrid classes and both would grant you cantrips, choose one class' cantrip progression and follow that with the progression of ‘features that use scaling by class level’. You may choose the cantrips from both lists. When you gain the second spellcasting feature, you may change up to half your current cantrips to cantrips of the new list.
    Spell Slots
    Your spell slots are determined by the combination of your classes. If only one has it, use progression as scaling feature progression. If two have the same spellcasting, use full progression. If two have different spellcastings, use the tables below (got the tables, but too much of a drag to add in tables here...)
    Known/Prepared spells
    You follow the progression of ‘features that use scaling by class level’. If you have two classes that grant known or prepared spells, you learn/prepare them individually.
    Spellcasting Focus
    You can use both class’ spellcasting focus for both class’ spellcasting if you have more than one spellcasting feature.
    Spellcasting ability
    You can use both class’ spellcasting ability for both class’ spellcasting if you have more than one spellcasting feature.


    So, that's what i got right now. Any suggestions/ideas/critique/anything? Is it ripe for playtesting? As always, this is open to be used or playtested by everyone, but please let me know how it went ;)
    Last edited by RakiReborn; 2016-04-18 at 07:48 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Its already starting to get lost in the vast amounts of homebrew that is made here. Are there no comments at all?
    Is it playtestable? :)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    I found it slightly hard to read, but after trying to fully understand it my feeling is that mixing the cha casters would be very strong.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    It doesn't matter which casters are together, since you can use both class' spellcasting ability for all spells. This is to make it less MAD.
    What exactly seems so strong? If you choose only one class' spellcasting feature, you only get a slowed progress up to level 15 with slots, but you do get more spells to cast them from. If you choose them both, you get full slot progression, but you have to use two levels gaining features to get that.
    Thanks for replying, i always like to know what seems unbalanced to others, even if i dont see it directly myself ;)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Ah, I see were I misunderstood. I was thinking of just being a caster with all those extra spells, it's a good build, but at level 5 falls behind as you don't learn level 3 spells.

    I think the issue is the complexity of the class. Given the 12 base classes there are 66 combinations not even considering which features you choose.

    It's a kind of awkward method of mixing classes that would perhaps be better done through archetypes.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    Ah, I see were I misunderstood. I was thinking of just being a caster with all those extra spells, it's a good build, but at level 5 falls behind as you don't learn level 3 spells.
    I did that on purpose. Since nit-picking features is usually stronger, and you can make stronger combinations, i chose to let the progression slow on the power spikes. This way you are behind in strenght with the individual features, but you can choose the best combinations to make up for it.
    Spellcasting is a little bit different though. By choosing two classes with spellcasting, and choosing the spellcasting feature from both classes, you get normal spellcasting progression with slots. The only downside is that the higher level spells come up later, as the learning or preparing spells for each class had the scaling feature progress individually. Compare it with multiclassing two full casters - with a 3/2 of 4/1 MC, you get 3rd level caster slots, but cant learn 3rd level spells yet. You have to give in something if you want both class' features :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    I think the issue is the complexity of the class. Given the 12 base classes there are 66 combinations not even considering which features you choose.

    It's a kind of awkward method of mixing classes that would perhaps be better done through archetypes.
    I understand where you come from. It might be more complex to understand, but it takes away a lot of work from homebrewing subclasses that mimic other classes for every class :p
    And this is simply an additional 'multiclass rule' to choose. It is a tool for players to make their characters an even more special snowflake. As it is a more complex rule, i do advice only to use it with players that have played 5th ed before.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    This seems to gimp dual martials unnecessarily, since they're already not as strong as martial/caster. Why can't you get two fighting styles? Why does a paladin/fighter have worse armor proficiency than either a paladin or a fighter?

    In general, the limits on only getting a feature from one side are overly complicated for no good reason. Remove the weird limits on fighting styles, unarmored defense, and cantrips. Also, you really need spellcasting tables. As of right now, the only playable hybrids are mundane/mundane or full caster /full caster
    Last edited by PotatoGolem; 2016-04-22 at 11:09 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    Quote Originally Posted by RakiReborn View Post
    I understand where you come from. It might be more complex to understand, but it takes away a lot of work from homebrewing subclasses that mimic other classes for every class :p
    And this is simply an additional 'multiclass rule' to choose. It is a tool for players to make their characters an even more special snowflake. As it is a more complex rule, i do advice only to use it with players that have played 5th ed before.
    Even if you have a combination you want, even if that combination is viable, how do you convince a DM to allow this into their game? Most DMs are cautious about adding in new content let alone what is almost an endless possibility of classes.
    Spoiler: Homebrew Common Courtesy
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    When asking for homebrew critique please respect everyone else's time by;
    • Stating which edition.
    • Telling us what you are trying to achieve.
    • Updating your OP.
    • Referencing non core content.
    • Making the formatting reader friendly.
    • Giving a direct link to your content.

    Thank you.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rakireborn's Hybrid Class Rules Supplement

    I would say that you should tell him/her all the positive sides, but also the setbacks. The major setbacks are that you progress slower and have a lower level cap. When you are at 10th level, you have an equal amount of features as a normal class, but they have higher level features. The higher you get, the stronger the features usually get. The scaling features (like monks unarmed strike, spellcasting, or the Rogue sneak attack for instance) also have slower progression, so you will be behind the full classes. And it all caps at 15th level.
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

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