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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    It's true that the gaze is free, which grants action advantage, but it's barely compensation for the lack of further useful abilities. You can't hide if you want to use your gaze, because your gaze doesn't work if people can't see you, and you don't have the native toughness to go into melee. Your only real option is to become an Ur-Priest or some sort of tricky evasion tank (swordsage/master of nine?).

    The most obvious optimization for a bodak's racial abilities is probably bodak 9/lurking terror 1/legacy champion 10, using the Lurking Terror's first-level ability to add your LT class level to your death gaze save DC - up to 23+CHA at level 20 - while getting Hide in Plain Sight as your only useful class feature (which, again, precludes the use of your gaze).

    Overall, the LA should be fairly low, and zero is fine for higher-power games (it may be a bit strong next to tier 5s).
    Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2016-06-13 at 09:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Libris: look at your allowed sources. I don't think any of your options were from those.
    My incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
    My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I'll point out that Finger of Death is a standard action, while Death Gaze, as a gaze attack, requires no action. Furthermore, Finger of Death is a 7th level spell, so I don't see how a 10th level sorcerer is getting any of them at all, let alone six per day, Versatile Spellcaster be damned. As for your allies, all they need to do is a. stay more than 30 feet away from you, or b. be immune to it, both of which should be fairly easy to do.
    Aaaaand that was me mixing up FoD and Slay Living. Ah well, the point still stands: just replace 'sorcerer' with 'favored soul'.

    Death Gaze indeed requires no action. However, in any kind of practical combat, chances are your allies will be within 30 feet of you. Remember, you have a move rate of 20 feet and a moderate dexterity score: chances are you'll need Narrowed Gaze to not be useless.

    You raise a good point on the immunity, though. How about I raise the LA to +1?
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I actually think +0 is fair, I just disagree with the reasoning. (Although I honestly prefer LA . Some monsters are just not suited for PCs, and I think a bodak would not result in good gameplay.)

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I think Dire_Stirge should allow for LA -- monsters (what LA are we going to give to the blue whale?) but possibly include a small writeup on the minimum changes required to make them playable (and thus LA-able).
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Part of the fun here is figuring out how to balance creatures previously considered unbalanceable. I don't think I'll ever assign LA's of , though. If a creature's actual playability is questionable, though, I will suggest only allowing it after careful deliberation.

    Still, I don't think all creatures are unplayable in all situations. Your whale example may actually work in an aquatic campaign, for one.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Bugbear


    Fun fact: WotC hates goblinoids. The bugbear and its current +1 LA are a fine example of that.

    Bugbears already have 3 humanoid HD, which is about the worst kind of HD one could have. In return for this they get decent ability bonuses, a small skill bonus, scent and natural armor. Pretty much all of these are done better by other creatures. Even the few goblinoid-centric feats aren't a reason to become a bugbear, because they could be just as easily taken by a goblin or hobgoblin.

    Bottomline: sometimes you don't need a lengthy explanation to justify your decisions. Bugbears are weak, but giving them -0 LA is all I can do here.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2016-11-14 at 11:39 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Several years back, someone on these forums was promoting SHELA - Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustments. :)

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Several years back, someone on these forums was promoting SHELA - Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustments. :)
    isnt it one of the oots villians end goal( cleric one)

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Why can't you do more than +0 LA? Negative LA is a thing.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Why can't you do more than +0 LA? Negative LA is a thing.
    Is it? Where can we find such monsters? What's the lowest record?
    Have a look at my complete list of wizard spells, last updated 07/08/2015.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippin View Post
    Is it? Where can we find such monsters? What's the lowest record?
    I gotta bad feeling about the answer

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippin View Post
    Is it? Where can we find such monsters? What's the lowest record?
    In official material, it appears exactly once, as far as I know - Incarnate Construct template grants LA -2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    In official material, it appears exactly once, as far as I know - Incarnate Construct template grants LA -2.
    shush buddy you gonna wake up optimizers

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Why can't you do more than +0 LA? Negative LA is a thing.
    The problem with negative LA is that things get broken real fast. Let's say the bugbear is given -1 LA, for one.

    Someone plays a bugbear (an ECL 2 creature now), and chooses to take levels in cleric. He puts some skill ranks in Knowledge (religion) and Spellcraft: nothing too special.

    At ECL 19, the PC has 3 bugbear RHD and 17 cleric levels. He takes another level in cleric, gaining his 21st HD (at ECL 20), and takes Epic Spellcasting. Oops.

    You could argue this is an example of ES being unbalanced rather than negative LA itself, but there's so much epic feats you'd need to houserule out to balance this situation that I seriously question the viability of negative LA. Even without epic cheese, having more HD than the game expects can lead to some seriously weird situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    In official material, it appears exactly once, as far as I know - Incarnate Construct template grants LA -2.
    There's also a list of monsters in the ELH with a given ECL. While technically no negative LA is directly given, several of the listed creatures have ECL's lower than their HD. The Chichimec, for example, has ECL 23 but 27 HD.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2016-06-14 at 01:43 PM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    To prevent Epic nonsense, just say that RHD don't count. You need either 21 character levels, or a CR of 21 or higher if you are a monster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    To prevent Epic nonsense, just say that RHD don't count. You need either 21 character levels, or a CR of 21 or higher if you are a monster.
    Still causes problems. Several prestige classes can now be entered at a significantly lower level, which can result in some seriously broken builds.

    Sure, you could rule RHD don't count for meeting prerequisites either, but at that point I recommend just asking your DM to houserule a few of the RHD away. It's easier than taking an already inelegant system and twisting it to do the opposite it was intended to do.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Bulette


    Before I begin, I'd like to share what is perhaps the greatest quote on bulettes ever, found in the 5e Monster Manual:

    "A bulette loves halfling meat the most, and is never happier than when chasing plump halflings across an open field."
    That's right, imagine one of those things running after a few panicking halflings. Isn't it wonderful?

    Bulettes themselves are just another big melee beasty with a few tricks. They've got Huge size, very good ability scores and full BAB hit dice going for them, as well as a couple of pretty neat natural weapons.

    Related to this is their Leap ability, which allows them to replace their bite attack with two more claw attacks. Good to have, but made even more awesome by the specific wording only prohibiting bite attacks. A Mouthpick weapon, for one, can still be used together with the claws.

    Taking this into account, the bulette is a potent melee combatant that brings some very big numbers to the table. +1 LA seems about right.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    biggrin Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Before I begin, I'd like to share what is perhaps the greatest quote on bulettes ever, found in the 5e Monster Manual:
    Back in the 1E days, a few monsters had Halfling listed as their preferred food, Bulettes was definitely one, and I believe Purple Worm was another.

    [edit]Oh, and probably may favourite piece of Bulette artwork:

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    [/edit]

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Back in the 1E days, a few monsters had Halfling listed as their preferred food, Bulettes was definitely one, and I believe Purple Worm was another.

    [edit]Oh, and probably may favourite piece of Bulette artwork:

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    [/edit]
    Are... Are those robots? What?
    Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!

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    Thumbs up Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    Are... Are those robots? What?
    Expedition to the Barrier Peaks

    ...yes, they are robots.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Carrion crawler


    Firstly, I'd like to apologize for not being able to post as much in the past few days. RL is taking up most of my time at the moment.

    With that being said, let's take a look at this monster. It's a big aberrant centipede that can paralyze you with its many tentacles.

    You're Large, but don't get reach (we're off to a good start). The ability scores are kind of lackluster. Having four scores boosted is good, but often a single high stat is preferable to several decent ones. The RHD are pretty bad, too, unless you really like having a good Will. Climb speed and natural armor: no objections there. Scent, darkvision, a weak natural bite and Alertness as a bonus feat don't really add anything either.

    There's one thing I haven't covered yet, though: the crawler's tentacles. It's got eight of them, and each can paralyze for 2d4 rounds on a hit. That's huge. Against a creature that isn't paralysis-immune, you'll probably score at least one paralyzing hit on a full attack. When that happens, you can just re-paralyze them at your leisure while your allies kill it.

    While there's a large number of creature types that are immune to paralysis, these often don't become a problem until higher levels. By then, you should either have bought off your LA or patched up your lack of versatility with some creative build choices.

    Final verdict: either +1 or +2 LA. Keeping the carrion crawler's relative lack of versatility in mind, I'll go with +1 here.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2016-12-27 at 04:14 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    Carrion crawler


    Firstly, I'd like to apologize for not being able to post as much in the past few days. RL is taking up most of my time at the moment.

    With that being said, let's take a look at this monster. It's a big aberrant centipede that can paralyze you with its many tentacles.

    You're Large, but don't get reach (we're off to a good start). The ability scores are kind of lackluster. Having four scores boosted is good, but often a single high stat is preferable to several decent ones. The RHD are pretty bad, too, unless you really like having a good Will. Climb speed and natural armor: no objections there. Scent, darkvision, a weak natural bite and Alertness as a bonus feat don't really add anything either.

    There's one thing I haven't covered yet, though: the crawler's tentacles. It's got eight of them, and each can paralyze for 2d4 rounds on a hit. That's huge. Against a creature that isn't paralysis-immune, you'll probably score at least one paralyzing hit on a full attack. When that happens, you can just re-paralyze them at your leisure while your allies kill it.

    While there's a large number of creature types that are immune to paralysis, but these often don't become a problem until higher levels. By then, you should either have bought off your LA or patched up your lack of versatility with some creative build choices.

    Final verdict: either +1 or +2 LA. Keeping the carrion crawler's relative lack of versatility in mind, I'll go with +1 here.
    eight tentacle attacks for hentai for +1 la this is powerful

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    eight tentacle attacks for hentai for +1 la this is powerful
    I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this.
    one more needed to chage the game to friendly to not so friendly considering its just ready for grappling build this becomes dark rather quick plus dont respond with any intigue cause I dont want to get banned for describing

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Celestial Creature


    The first template is often-maligned Celestial, best known for providing wizards with expendable summons. The tier system for templates lists it as 'tier 5': literally the lowest of the low. I don't completely agree with the rating, but it illustrates how little Celestial adds to your character for +2 LA.

    What does it give you? Darkvision, weak spell resistance (an equally-leveled caster will penetrate it 75% of the time), a weaker version of Smite Evil, usable once a day, and scaling energy resistance and damage reduction. Oh, and if you're an animal or vermin you become a sentient magical beast instead, which is a negligible benefit unless you're looking for a cheap way to make your vermin PC playable.

    The scaling abilities slightly complicate picking an appropriate LA. If you only have a few HD, you gain nothing but a few uncommon resistances. You then gain DR/magic, which is briefly useful before becoming near-worthless due to enemies with magical gear getting more common. The subsequent increases to both of these abilities don't add much to their overall use.

    All things considered, I can't really put this at anything other than +1 LA. At +0, it's simply too strong not to take, whereas +2 would keep it terribly underpowered.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    All things considered, I can't really put this at anything other than +1 LA. At +0, it's simply too strong not to take, whereas +2 would keep it terribly underpowered.
    The problem with +1 is that it hurts a ton when the template sucks, and you can buy it off when it gets good. At the early levels (especially 1-3) it barely does anything at all. I would recommend a straight-up XP cost like Necropolitan. Knock people down to halfway to the starting level for getting the template, and then move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
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    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The problem with +1 is that it hurts a ton when the template sucks, and you can buy it off when it gets good. At the early levels (especially 1-3) it barely does anything at all. I would recommend a straight-up XP cost like Necropolitan. Knock people down to halfway to the starting level for getting the template, and then move on.
    But how would you even acquire such a template?
    A ritual?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    What legacy do we leave, after all, but those quotes that others have sigged?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jergmo View Post
    What do you do when you fight an undead that turns into a spider that's filled with spiders that turns into spiders after trapping you in magical webbing? You scream, and you never stop.
    'Prax' is fine.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PraxisVetli View Post
    But how would you even acquire such a template?
    A ritual?
    "Hey guy, turns out you have celestial heritage, you have become powerful enough for it to manifest, wooo."
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Thumbs up Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    All things considered, I can't really put this at anything other than +1 LA. At +0, it's simply too strong not to take, whereas +2 would keep it terribly underpowered.
    I'd agree with this assessment...

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PraxisVetli View Post
    But how would you even acquire such a template?
    A ritual?
    There's a spell in the online archives for that. In absence of houserules like this thread proposes, a cocktail of Aspect of the Wolf/Planar Familiar is the lowest ECL method I know of to get the Magical Beast type on a character.

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