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  1. - Top - End - #1261
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I agree with the +2 LA

  2. - Top - End - #1262
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Hm, it's awkward in that it's clearly extremely strong for a +1, yet I feel that it lacks the punch one expects out of +2.

    If the Medium version had wings (WTF were they thinking on that restriction?) and the breath weapon was at least useable every 1d4 rounds as a dragon's, I think it'd fit neatly into a good, solid +2.

    I'm curious, what do you guys would give it to make it worth the +3 LA?

  3. - Top - End - #1263
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyNotEvil View Post
    I'm curious, what do you guys would give it to make it worth the +3 LA?
    Basically, half-celestial with different spells. Half-dragons deserve SR and a big fat wad of spell-like abilities, given that the real deal gets full-blown sorcerer casting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  4. - Top - End - #1264
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyNotEvil View Post
    I'm curious, what do you guys would give it to make it worth the +3 LA?
    Probably an increase in size category; right now at +2 the half-dragon is competing with the half-ogre pretty reasonably.
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  5. - Top - End - #1265
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    +1 is out of the question and +3 is already proven to be too much, so that leaves +2.

  6. - Top - End - #1266
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    +1 is out of the question and +3 is already proven to be too much, so that leaves +2.
    Why is +1 out of the question?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  7. - Top - End - #1267
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    For a full +3? Why not give it the breath weapon every 1d4+1 rounds, like a true dragon?

  8. - Top - End - #1268
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    For a full +3? Why not give it the breath weapon every 1d4+1 rounds, like a true dragon?
    Even then, it would need to scale. 6d8 averages out to 27 damage (13.5 on a successful save, less with increasingly common energy resistance). This stops being a meaningful use of your action fairly quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  9. - Top - End - #1269
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Even then, it would need to scale. 6d8 averages out to 27 damage (13.5 on a successful save, less with increasingly common energy resistance). This stops being a meaningful use of your action fairly quickly.
    I agree, scaling would be good. Though that might need to push it to +4, with a few other things added on (maybe the SR discussed earlier), because if it scales, I don't think the LA should be easily bought off.

    Then again, IIRC, the rules for assignment in this thread don't assume LA buy-off, so...maybe?

  10. - Top - End - #1270
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I don't think having a scaling energy weapon means that you should have a big fat LA to go with it. Even a 20d6 breath weapon would be so miserable at 20th level that it would scarcely deserve any LA at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  11. - Top - End - #1271
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    For a full +3? Why not give it the breath weapon every 1d4+1 rounds, like a true dragon?
    There's a feat that does this already. Unimaginatively, it's called Dragon Breath.

    However, because every half-dragon will be ECL 8/ECL 9 by the time they can get it, it might as well not exist.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  12. - Top - End - #1272
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Why is +1 out of the question?
    Too strong. Way stronger than a class level. Certainly stronger than other +1 options.

  13. - Top - End - #1273
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    If you're a martial type, the stat boosts alone are excellent at pretty much any sub-10th level.

  14. - Top - End - #1274
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Throw me in for LA +2. It's at least as good as the RoD half-ogre and better than Karsite.

  15. - Top - End - #1275
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    If you're a martial type, the stat boosts alone are excellent at pretty much any sub-10th level.
    And any post-10th level.

  16. - Top - End - #1276
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Well, those too, but I was being conservative. Still, +8 Str is awesome for any non-caster at pretty much any level.

  17. - Top - End - #1277
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I think +2 works well because the DM can still counter a half-dragon pretty easily. Melee and elemental damage aren't hard to negate. Half-dragon gets some good bonuses, but they're not really bonuses to good things.
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  18. - Top - End - #1278
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    Well, those too, but I was being conservative. Still, +8 Str is awesome for any non-caster at pretty much any level.
    Moreso, being a template you can stack this with a base race, for example, water orc for a total +12 Str

  19. - Top - End - #1279
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    It's too strong for a +1, but it's still underwhelming as a +2 as written.
    I'd honestly call it something like a +1.5, where the ".5" is something like a bloodline level.
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  20. - Top - End - #1280
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Half-Fiend


    Fortunately, the half-fiend/half-celestial difference is slightly greater than the fiendish/celestial one. Slightly.

    Half-fiends obviously have other SLA's than their celestial equivalents, which are about equal in power. At worst, they're a bit weaker at higher levels.

    Half-fiends fly speeds are way worse. Maneuverability is down by one step (which removes the ability to hover, move back, or reverse), and the speed itself is halved.

    Half-fiends do get a better immunity (poison rather than disease), better resistances, and some natural weapons, but have lower ability scores overall.

    Even moreso than with half-celestials, I find myself tempted to put half-fiends at +2 and see how the community responds. Still, I'll do the safe thing and rate them as +3's for now.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-11-30 at 11:39 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  21. - Top - End - #1281
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Half-Fiends got some support by way of the Half-Fiendish Variety web articles, so their SLA selection ends up as good as Half-Celestials' or better, and there are a few other worthwhile things there as well. I say keep them even with Half-Celestial.

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  22. - Top - End - #1282
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Half-Fiends got some support by way of the Half-Fiendish Variety web articles, so their SLA selection ends up as good as Half-Celestials' or better, and there are a few other worthwhile things there as well. I say keep them even with Half-Celestial.
    I agree. My vote is LA +3.

  23. - Top - End - #1283
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Half-Fiends are another one where I like a more frontloaded Savage Progression. Put some of the extra stuff on the third LA and make it optional.

  24. - Top - End - #1284
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Even then, it would need to scale. 6d8 averages out to 27 damage (13.5 on a successful save, less with increasingly common energy resistance). This stops being a meaningful use of your action fairly quickly.
    Depends on the class. For a typical spellcaster, yeah. For a less magicky type, not so much...especially against things like swarms, groups of mooks, or something which high enough AC or DR to make normal attacks less effective. And if it's at will, it'll be there when you're out of other options. Yeah, it's a situational ability, but quite useful in those situations. 1/day and it's not much worth considering; 1/1d4+1 rounds and it's something to consider. Maybe not enough to bump it to +3 on its own, but it lowers the barrier to entry a bit.


    Two quick questions for Inevitability about the half-fiend and half-celestial. Were the LA's assuming that class levels would add spell levels? If this assumption was changed, would it change LA?
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  25. - Top - End - #1285
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    It is probably sensible to keep both half-outsiders at the same LA (+3).

  26. - Top - End - #1286
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    I have a weird question. Why did/does everyone keep talking about dragon breath being 1d4+1 rounds? Its just 1d4 rounds as a normal dragon or with the feat.

  27. - Top - End - #1287
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion View Post
    It is probably sensible to keep both half-outsiders at the same LA (+3).
    Sensible? Maybe, but I do think it would be thematically appropriate for half-fiend to have a lower LA. After all, being evil is supposed to be the easy way.
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  28. - Top - End - #1288
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Sensible? Maybe, but I do think it would be thematically appropriate for half-fiend to have a lower LA. After all, being evil is supposed to be the easy way.
    Fitting with that theme, there would have to be some kind of cost, the impact of which isn't immediately obvious. If this were GURPS I'd suggest some mental disadvantages to stick in it, but D&D doesn't have anything like that...
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  29. - Top - End - #1289
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Half-fiend is "easier" as it has more blatantly offensive SLAs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  30. - Top - End - #1290
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Halfling


    It's a halfling. I mean, I can go into detail how they make pretty good rogues or how strongheart is the best of all subraces, but it's not going to change the LA. +0 for standard.

    Tallfellow


    Skill bonuses have been switched around and are slightly better now. Truly revolutionary. +0.

    Deep Halfling


    Once more, the underground version of a race is a very good pick. Darkvision, stonecunning, and more in exchange for mostly useless skills (seriously: who needs jump and climb after level 6 or so?). Worth playing if you ever need a SRD-only rogue or something. +0 LA.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-03-08 at 01:56 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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