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  1. - Top - End - #1291
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Isn't the Deep Halfling technically not in the PHB?
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Negative LA Assignment Thread
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  2. - Top - End - #1292
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Isn't the Deep Halfling technically not in the PHB?
    It is in the SRD. I can't check the book, though.
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  3. - Top - End - #1293
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    PHB doesn't have subraces; those are in the Monster Manual. And Inevitability didn't say SRD-only rogue, he said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    ...PHB-only rogue...
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  4. - Top - End - #1294
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    PHB doesn't have subraces; those are in the Monster Manual. And Inevitability didn't say SRD-only rogue, he said:
    Exactly the anal-retentive ignoring of intent I've grown to expect of these forums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    There's a reason why we bap your nose, not crucify you, for thread necromancy.

  5. - Top - End - #1295

  6. - Top - End - #1296
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Fair point, Wyrm. I've changed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Exactly the anal-retentive ignoring of intent I've grown to expect of these forums.
    Also, I really hope this won't escalate.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  7. - Top - End - #1297
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Fair point, Wyrm. I've changed it.



    Also, I really hope this won't escalate.
    Eh, I never said it was a bad thing. I'm mostly just being facetious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    There's a reason why we bap your nose, not crucify you, for thread necromancy.

  8. - Top - End - #1298
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Also, I really hope this won't escalate.
    I have no intent to do so. Keeping it on exactly the same level is well within what I'm willing to do though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    It is core.
    Did Inevitability say core-only? Before editing his post?

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Eh, I never said it was a bad thing. I'm mostly just being facetious.
    Ah, glad to hear it.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  9. - Top - End - #1299
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    Did Inevitability say core-only? Before editing his post?
    I said PHB-only.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  10. - Top - End - #1300
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Harpy


    For those uncomfortable with deformed bird-woman nudity, an alternative picture can be found here.

    Harpies have seven monstrous humanoid HD. Their fly speed is on the high side, but their ability scores are disappointing for a mid-level creature and their natural attacks are mostly useless without a source of bonus damage (though they can be used with a wielded weapon).

    Captivating Song is difficult to read. If it's a (Su) ability, should it be a standard action to activate? Does it take a standard action to use on each next turn? If so, why does it specifically say affected creatures don't resist the harpy's attacks?

    Even the most favorable interpretation doesn't change the fact that a moderate SoL has been available to many other classes for a long time now, though. -0 seems to be the only fair LA.

    Next are hell hounds.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  11. - Top - End - #1301
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Also, in somewhat related news, the first post just hit 50000 words. Once the next thread is up I'll move stuff there, but until then new updates will be categorized in this post.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  12. - Top - End - #1302
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Yeah, for a 7th level monster (aside: would be useful to have the reviews mention HD or ECL) the harpy doesn't bring much to the table. +6 Charisma? Who cares.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  13. - Top - End - #1303
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Captivating Song is difficult to read. If it's a (Su) ability, should it be a standard action to activate? Does it take a standard action to use on each next turn? If so, why does it specifically say affected creatures don't resist the harpy's attacks?
    Relevant text here:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD, Captivating Song
    The effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter
    Since the ability exempts other harpies, I suspect it was intended to work with a group of them (or at least in suitable terrain - e.g. by a cliff - where you could lead someone with poor saves to their death).
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  14. - Top - End - #1304
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Captivating Song is difficult to read. If it's a (Su) ability, should it be a standard action to activate? Does it take a standard action to use on each next turn? If so, why does it specifically say affected creatures don't resist the harpy's attacks?
    I'd treat it with the same rules as a bard's song. But it doesn't say that's the rules, so it's ambiguous at best.

    Either way, I certainly agree with -0. Total +8 ability scores, darkvision, and natural attacks is worth a level or maybe two, captivating song is worth maybe another -- so this would be balanced as an ECL 2 or 3 creature, and even then it's iffy. ECL 7 is way outside the range of usefulness, especially with middle-of-the-road (two good saves and full BAB, but d8 and 2+int skills) Monstrous Humanoid HD.

  15. - Top - End - #1305
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Hell Hound


    Who's an Evil boy? You are! I regret nothing!

    Hell hounds have 4 outsider RHD, with the evil, lawful, and fire subtypes. Their ability scores are pretty bad, evening out to a net -2. Natural armor and speed are decent, but not remarkable.

    Hell hounds also have a breath weapon that's pretty underwhelming, and get to add 1d6 fire damage to their bite attacks. Greatswords are still better.

    Finally, there's a reasonable bonus to hide and move silently. They're not the worst skills on your list, so go ahead and put some points in them.

    All around, hell hounds are simply underwhelming. Whereas other monstrous races tend to have at least one thing they can perform well at, here it seems you're forced to pick between bad blasting or bad melee. Even as an entry for Fiend of X there exist better options. -0 LA.

    Nessian Warhound

    I invite you to think of any time where adding more HD to a monster and adding a single die of damage to its special qualities increased its LA. -0 LA.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  16. - Top - End - #1306
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Hippogriff


    For 3 magical beast HD, hippogriffs get some pretty good physical ability boosts, though it comes at the cost of severely reduced mental stats. Their primary weapons are two pretty weak claws, their secondary a bite that'll probably be used for weapon-wielding.

    I keep mentally comparing this thing to the griffon, and not without good reason. The griffon (which got +0) may have the same physical scores and size, better natural attacks and armor, Pounce, and Rake, but all this is at four more HD than the hippogriff and we all know how easy Pounce is to get.

    One could argue for +0 on grounds of the hippo's lack of thumbs and relative stupidity. I personally still lean towards +1, though. Hivemind, please opine.

    Next up are hobgoblins!
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2017-03-15 at 02:36 AM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  17. - Top - End - #1307
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Yeah, hobgoblins are probably going to suck harder than Hypernova Kirby. Seriously, why does WotC hate monsterous races so much? It's like they looked at them and were like, "Eww, +5 LA for being ugly as heck. +2 more for not being humanoid."
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  18. - Top - End - #1308
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Yeah, hobgoblins are probably going to suck harder than Hypernova Kirby. Seriously, why does WotC hate monsterous races so much? It's like they looked at them and were like, "Eww, +5 LA for being ugly as heck. +2 more for not being humanoid."
    I'm now imaging the entire design team being comprised of teenage Valley Girls spouting inane bullhonkey and agreeing in chorus as it's written down and sent immediately to publication.
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  19. - Top - End - #1309
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    I'm now imaging the entire design team being comprised of teenage Valley Girls spouting inane bullhonkey and agreeing in chorus as it's written down and sent immediately to publication.
    That explains so much about the game!
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  20. - Top - End - #1310
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    biggrin Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    [CENTER]Hippogriff

    One could argue for +0 on grounds of the hippo's lack of thumbs and relative stupidity. I personally still lean towards +1, though. Hivemind, please opine.
    I agree with LA+1, hippo's physical ability scores are really nice, is comparable with giant eagle (RHD 4, LA+1), in fact, i think is slightly better (not enough for LA+2, though).

    Next up are hobgoblins!
    LA+0, next!

  21. - Top - End - #1311
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Hobgoblins are too strong for +0 and too weak for +1.

  22. - Top - End - #1312
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Hobgoblins are too strong for +0 and too weak for +1.
    My friend and I are on a similar mission to this except with goblinoids. Hobgoblin posses a bit of an issue TBH. Lesser planetouched at least make +0 look reasonable but they actually have a downside, unlike hobgoblin. Aside from its stats it has no racial features of note (almost none at all, period). You either get a strong, if bland, +0 or a +1 no one will touch.

  23. - Top - End - #1313
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    That explains so much about the game!
    What about Dwarves? They should be subject to a lot of shallow mockery, but they get off okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    This thread, Questions that can't be answered... Answered by RAW by No brains, is Epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    ...I've clearly been playing D&D for too long, because that made a demented kind of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by that_one_kobold View Post
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  24. - Top - End - #1314
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    Post Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Hobgoblins are too strong for +0 and too weak for +1.
    I believe the KoK hobgoblins get around this with some negative ability mods.

    TBH, a Hobgoblin is no stronger at LA +0 than a Lesser Aasimar or some of the Anthro-animal races.

  25. - Top - End - #1315
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Those are also too strong for +0, though.

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    In what way are hobgoblins "too strong" for +0? Because they get +Dex and +Con? Oh, heavens! A couple minor number boosts does not make a significant difference. If that were so, then you could fix the Fighter by increasing the bonuses given by Weapon Focus/Specialization. Hobgoblins don't overpower the other races by having a couple extra hit points.
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Even if you set Hobgoblin LA to +0, I can't see them replacing Humans in the vast majority of builds.

  28. - Top - End - #1318
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Even if you set Hobgoblin LA to +0, I can't see them replacing Humans in the vast majority of builds.
    Exactly. I'd almost always rather have the free feat. That actually gets me something useful.
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  29. - Top - End - #1319
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    You know, HUMANS could be argued to have too low of an LA. I mean, free feat and skill points, plus Favored Class: Any? Best race for any build, period.
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  30. - Top - End - #1320
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Hobgoblins are too strong for +0 and too weak for +1.
    As is so often the case, I disagree with you here. Well, on the first part: the second part is correct.

    Hobgoblins look strong, because they get direct bonuses to moderately useful stats. However, as has been pointed out, a feat is in many cases equal if not better. Even compared to 'normal' +0 LA races, such as dwarves, I'd pick them over hobgoblin in most cases.

    Ask for yourself: is +2 dexterity and a +4 bonus on move silently worth 90 ft. darkvision, saving throw bonuses against spells and poisons, bonuses against common enemies and on common skills, and what may be the biggest pile of race-specific material in the game? The -2 charisma is nearly irrelevant, because anyone with a -2 charisma race is not going to have a class that needs it.

    Hobgoblins, at +0 LA, are useful in their own way. At +1 LA, they're the ridiculed fodder they are today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    My friend and I are on a similar mission to this except with goblinoids. Hobgoblin posses a bit of an issue TBH. Lesser planetouched at least make +0 look reasonable but they actually have a downside, unlike hobgoblin. Aside from its stats it has no racial features of note (almost none at all, period). You either get a strong, if bland, +0 or a +1 no one will touch.
    What downside does a lesser aasimar have, pray tell? Energy resistances, +2 to two stats, skill bonuses, a SLA, darkvision, and tons of racial support seem to come at little to no penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    You know, HUMANS could be argued to have too low of an LA. I mean, free feat and skill points, plus Favored Class: Any? Best race for any build, period.
    What are you talking about? There's lots of reasons not to take humans! Hasn't anyone taught you a thing about strongheart halflings?
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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