Yet Another Ranger Rebuild (PEACH)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

This is a simple re-working of the vanilla class. It involves very little real homebrew, and more a smattering of small changes to try and shore up the Ranger's shortcomings. I am not sure that I succeeded, but that's why I've come to the Playground!

I would very much appreciate any and all criticism on this Ranger class. Link to the google doc can be found here!

[Rerem115]

This feels really strong. Too strong, actually. Adding Wisdom to damage at level one on top of either TWF or GWM means an early damage output nobody else can easily match. I know it's favored enemy only, but with the ability to change favored enemy, it will almost always remain relevant. Rangers already get a lot of early damage boosts; Colossus Slayer, companion attacks, Hunter's Mark. Adding another will push their damage output to very nearly the top slot.

The later abilities seem better balanced, if a bit on the strong side; no spell slot "Pass Without Trace" and limited invisibility is pretty strong without being gamebreaking. I like the flavor for the natural side, but why is there a list of bonuses for urban settings? It comes out of nowhere and is even stronger than the natural side; natural side had to make camo for a minute, but urban side just gets free invisibility, which doesn't quite match the flavor. Another example of this is "Feral Senses". I was really liking what you did to it, until I saw "add Wisdom modifier to all attacks". I know it's a level 18 ability, but bounded accuracy exists for a reason. At that point in time, it could very easily be +4 or +5 to hit on top of all the other bonuses.

As for Beastmaster....Eh, it needed love. No complaints here.

The big issue this fix has is one shared by the original Ranger; it's really front-loaded, and the early benefits far outweigh the late gains.. I could see someone dipping one or two levels to get all the early goodies, and then go full Fighter or Rogue and proceed to have a massive early damage boost, while still being able to get most of the benefits of their new class. Most games don't go to 20th level, so if they don't get their capstone, there's a strong chance it won't matter.

Minor note: You said something in the chart about "Extra Move" at second level, but never outlined what it was. No matter what it is, it's still another reason to dip two levels, and then leave.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Thank you for the feedback! I'll address your points one at a time.

This feels really strong. Too strong, actually. Adding Wisdom to damage at level one on top of either TWF or GWM means an early damage output nobody else can easily match. I know it's favored enemy only, but with the ability to change favored enemy, it will almost always remain relevant. Rangers already get a lot of early damage boosts; Colossus Slayer, companion attacks, Hunter's Mark. Adding another will push their damage output to very nearly the top slot.

My thought with this was that Favored Enemy needed some sort of combat usage. Would the Wisdom to damage be salvageable if it were changed to a 1 minute once per long rest boost? Or just remove entirely?

I also gave GWF because, basically, my ideal Ranger was always a greatsword wielder. I never used dual-wielding in the older editions, and I just don't identify it with the Ranger like others do.

The later abilities seem better balanced, if a bit on the strong side; no spell slot "Pass Without Trace" and limited invisibility is pretty strong without being gamebreaking. I like the flavor for the natural side, but why is there a list of bonuses for urban settings?

I wasn't sure on the urban aspect. I will remove those post-haste. Perhaps a new archetype?

Another example of this is "Feral Senses". I was really liking what you did to it, until I saw "add Wisdom modifier to all attacks". I know it's a level 18 ability, but bounded accuracy exists for a reason. At that point in time, it could very easily be +4 or +5 to hit on top of all the other bonuses.

Hm. Should I remove that entirely? I thought perhaps to state that it does not stack with Enhancement bonuses, but that almost feels too wordy for 5E. What do you think?

As for Beastmaster....Eh, it needed love. No complaints here.

It just needed something. You liked the changes? Any one specifically?

The big issue this fix has is one shared by the original Ranger; it's really front-loaded, and the early benefits far outweigh the late gains.. I could see someone dipping one or two levels to get all the early goodies, and then go full Fighter or Rogue and proceed to have a massive early damage boost, while still being able to get most of the benefits of their new class. Most games don't go to 20th level, so if they don't get their capstone, there's a strong chance it won't matter.

Any idea off the top of your head for fixing this? Is it that much worse than a Fighter/Warlock? Or Bardlock? Or Sorlock? Lotta 'Locks. If the potential boost isn't too different from those then I don't think it will matter as much.

Minor note: You said something in the chart about "Extra Move" at second level, but never outlined what it was. No matter what it is, it's still another reason to dip two levels, and then leave.

Extra Move was meant to be deleted earlier. Thanks for the catch!

Again, thank you for the feedback! With the proposed changes, how would you rank this Ranger over vanilla?

[Gastronomie]

I don't have much time with me to look over Beastmaster, but otherwise most stuff seem nicely done. I don't think the "Add Wisdom Modifier" requires a one-minute length though, it doesn't really make in-game sense anyways. But I think the "Can Switch Enemies with 1 week of research" sorta defies the purpose. I mean, most DMs would give advice to the players about what sorts of monsters will come prior to the start of the campaign anyways, and anything beyond that is just too much. You could instead simply increase the number of Favored Enemies the Ranger gets at higher levels.

Also perhaps add "the +WIS mod damage ability can be used only once on each particular enemy every turn"?

And, the third extra attack isn't in the original Ranger. And if you were to add it it should be level 11, not 10.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I don't think the "Add Wisdom Modifier" requires a one-minute length though, it doesn't really make in-game sense anyways. But I think the "Can Switch Enemies with 1 week of research" sorta defies the purpose. I mean, most DMs would give advice to the players about what sorts of monsters will come prior to the start of the campaign anyways, and anything beyond that is just too much. You could instead simply increase the number of Favored Enemies the Ranger gets at higher levels.

I've modified the document to simply add more Favored Enemies at 9th and 17th level. Not sure if that's good enough. I feel like the vanilla feature needed the ability to switch, if only so that if the campaign changes course the Ranger can keep up. I mean, it sucks if you have a favorite Ranger character who focuses on goblinoids and humans when the DM wants to run Curse of Strahd.

Also perhaps add "the +WIS mod damage ability can be used only once on each particular enemy every turn"?

I might consider placing a limit on the number of times this ability can be used. Say, a number of times equal to 1/4 Ranger level per short rest?

And, the third extra attack isn't in the original Ranger. And if you were to add it it should be level 11, not 10.

I know it wasn't standard Ranger, but I figured it was obvious by Same as PHB I meant to just mean they get second extra attack. I didn't want to rewrite the whole ability verbatim.

Thank you for your feedback!