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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    The b'rn are a race of humanoid half-phoenixes (think aarakocra without the wings) in my world, and I'm just wanting to make sure they're balanced before i include them in the sourcebook I'm working on.

    For reference in your considerations, here's a link to the demi-phoenix that the racial document talks about.
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2016-05-10 at 03:06 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    The b'rn are a race of humanoid half-phoenixes (think aarakocra without the wings) in my world, and I'm just wanting to make sure they're balanced before i include them in the sourcebook I'm working on.
    First off, balanced or not, this race is interesting, and fairly different from your usual offerings. I like that.

    ASIs...good. Almost too good...I'd almost drop something here, but then again, it's less useful than the half elf.

    Age...that's some interesting fluff. Good job.

    Fires of Purity...fire resistance is always nice.

    Legacy of Arkatan...produce flame nice utility with okay damage; find familiar is always nice - this makes it accessible to classes that SHOULD get it (I'm looking at you, Sorcerer); honestly enhance ability is the only one I'm worried about giving out as a racial, out of the 3 spells you gave them.

    Phoenix Masters...Okay, I like this. A race-unique familiar is a pretty cool concept. Oh, right, you get Animal Handling too.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    For reference in your considerations, here's a link to the demi-phoenix that the racial document talks about.
    *book marks* I've been looking for a decent phoenix.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    I would say that this is great and thematic and all, but if you wanna give the race a buffed familiar, do two things:

    1) lose enhanced ability. This will be more than made up for by your CR 1-5 CR 1 pet.
    2) drop the familiar's ability to use the Attack action. This is stupid OP because your phoenix does 38 damage per round.

    Forget #2, I'm an idiot. I somehow misread the Phoenix Masters feature and thought that they got the full phoenix.
    Last edited by Requiemforlust; 2016-05-10 at 03:57 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    So that's two votes for drop enhance ability. Done.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    How about making the phoenix attack work as an action, or one of your attacks if you have extra attack, like the beastmaster? This makes it a bit more viable for melee chars, even though the ASI's are not optimal for them. Especially because of the ASI's i dont think it will be too strong.
    Extended Signature with Homebrew for 5e

    All my homebrew is open for use or playtests for everyone. If used or playtested, i would LOVE to hear what you find of it!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by RakiReborn View Post
    How about making the phoenix attack work as an action, or one of your attacks if you have extra attack, like the beastmaster? This makes it a bit more viable for melee chars, even though the ASI's are not optimal for them. Especially because of the ASI's i dont think it will be too strong.
    Ah. Thank you. This was the intention

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    I think the race is a smidgen too powerful. Also the Demi-Phoenix feels more like a CR 2 than 1.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    I think the race is a smidgen too powerful. Also the Demi-Phoenix feels more like a CR 2 than 1.
    The race is probably just a little bit too powerful still, I agree. But for the demi-phoenix, I literally had the DMG open to the "making a monster" section, and specifically built it out to be a CR 1. DPR, HP, everything, is in line with the guidelines for a CR 1.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Lets compare it to a brown bear.

    Brown bear has;
    +5 to hit
    1d8+2d6+4 (15.5) damage
    11 ac
    34 hp

    Demi-Phoenix has;
    +2 to hit
    2d6+2d8 (16) damage
    13 ac
    52 hp

    Brown bear hits on 8-20 (65%)
    Average damage per turn of (9.3/2 non magical) 4.65
    Which takes 11.18 rounds to kill

    DP hits on 9-20 (60%)
    average damage per turn of 9.6
    Which takes 3.54 rounds to kill

    This isn't even taking into account the value of;
    Death burst
    Eternal Life
    Spellcasting
    Damage & condition immunities
    Blind/dark vision
    Skills
    Flight

    lets do this again but compare it to a Grick as they both have that magical resistance.

    Grick has;
    +4 to hit
    2d6+2 (9) damage
    1d6+2 (5.5) follow up damage
    14 ac
    27 hp

    Demi-Phoenix has;
    +2 to hit
    2d6+2d8 (16) damage
    13 ac
    52 hp

    Grick hits on 9-20 (60%)
    Grick hits first only 24%
    (9*0.24) 2.16
    Grick hits Both 36%
    (14.5*0.36) 5.22
    (7.38/2 not magical) 3.69 average damage a turn
    Which takes 14.09 rounds to kill

    DP hits on 12-20 (45%)
    average damage per turn of (7.2 take of one quarter as half is fire) 5.4
    Which takes 5 rounds to kill

    This isn't even taking into account the value of;
    Death burst
    Eternal Life
    Spellcasting
    Damage & condition immunities
    Blindsight
    Skills
    Flight
    Spoiler: Homebrew Common Courtesy
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    Thank you.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Dropped the HP and the resistance to nonmagical weapons.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    I might have missed it in the text, but is there a limit to its eternal life? I remember previous games having a recharge time on such a feature.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    I might have missed it in the text, but is there a limit to its eternal life? I remember previous games having a recharge time on such a feature.
    There is not currently a recharge, but if your familiar (specific find familiar over general demi-phoenix eternal life) dies, you have to resummon them through casting find familiar.

    EDIT: Eternal Life as a feature is intended more for DMs who want an NPC phoenix or demi-phoenix.
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2016-05-10 at 08:27 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Final Hyena's Avatar

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    That keeps it balanced from a player using that spell perspective not from the creatures though.

    All hail our new Phoenix overlords!
    Spoiler: Homebrew Common Courtesy
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    That keeps it balanced from a player using that spell perspective not from the creatures though.

    All hail our new Phoenix overlords!
    All hail the Ember Enclave!

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    That keeps it balanced from a player using that spell perspective not from the creatures though.

    All hail our new Phoenix overlords!
    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    All hail the Ember Enclave!
    We owe our lives to the almighty Arkaten who lives and dies for our sins. May his light never die as we spread his wings across the earth in a holy embrace.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    We owe our lives to the almighty Arkaten who lives and dies for our sins. May his light never die as we spread his wings across the earth in a holy embrace.
    What is dead shall rise again.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    What is dead shall rise again.
    We should definitely make more deities together

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Are there any more thoughts as to the balance of the race itself?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Overall, I feel the class is stronger than average. No one ability seems overpowered, but the fact the abilities combined gives almost the entire half-elf kit as well as the best part of a fire genasi gives this race a not inconsequential leg up on other races. If the average racial power level is equal to this in your setting, then by all means feel free to use it, but if you have an otherwise standard power level, proceed with caution. Again, the race isn't overpowered per say, it just gets a notably higher level of bonuses.
    Last edited by Rerem115; 2016-05-11 at 01:39 PM.

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Just want to say when I looked at the homebrewery for the demi-phoenix, all of the fluff text was off the page. Did one of the images get removed?

    Here's a screenshot: http://puu.sh/pCkV2/4cc7c9ee24.jpg

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by KoyukiTei13 View Post
    Just want to say when I looked at the homebrewery for the demi-phoenix, all of the fluff text was off the page. Did one of the images get removed?

    Here's a screenshot: http://puu.sh/pCkV2/4cc7c9ee24.jpg
    Nothing got removed - the homebrewery just doesn't like mobile, or really anything but Chrome. My apologies for it screwing up.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Not exactly a balance thought, but do you think there would ever be an evil B'rn? There are a lot of cool immortality or fire related plots that could make a creature of this race an interesting villian. Or at least in my head.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: B'rn, the Phoenix-Masters [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by ZZSlider View Post
    Not exactly a balance thought, but do you think there would ever be an evil B'rn? There are a lot of cool immortality or fire related plots that could make a creature of this race an interesting villian. Or at least in my head.
    There totally could be an evil B'rn ^_^

    I know it says that they tend to be good - but that's not universal, just like not every half-Orc or Drow is evil
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2016-06-22 at 05:20 PM.

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