The Ultimate Playground Input Guide to the Fun Paladin

[8BitNinja]

As a paladin, I must face every day with the stereotype that I am a sacred stick in the holy mud. Every day, people think I am less of an agent of order and benevolence and more like the Spanish Inquisition. Every time someone talks to me, I think that they might refer to me as lawful stupid, because most people do. And it's kind of every paladin's fault, including me

Well paladins have high charisma for a reason, and we're going to use that to break the stereotype.

So what ways do you think a paladin can still be a fun guy to hang around? How do you think he could be less than a Babysitter in Shining Armor and more of a Friend to Have a Pint of Mead With in Shining Armor?

[Quiver]

I'm trying to do this with my (first!) character in a play-by-post game.

Ely. She's a paladin dedicated to Shelyn.

My take on it is that, if a paladin serves a diety, they should embody that dieties values. Not preaching, or telling people what they can or can't do; that's the job for the religious elite. Instead, a paladin should be an example of how to live according to those values.

So, in the case of Ely...Shelyn is the goddess of art, love and beauty. So Ely, she interprets that as Two things:
-Love is the highest ideal a person can live by, so you should love everyone.
-Art is the highest thing a person can create, and everything is art.

So the result is...she's a paladin who wears her heart in her sleeve. She's happy, she has a zest for life, because everything -cooking, knitting, painting- is an art form of some kind, and she wants to experience it all.

She's also blindly optimistic and niave, but she believes the best in everyone. She wants everyone to be friends (platonic love), and encourages that through socialising and partying and encouraging social events.
She's not a paladin of the "Do or die" tradition, as much as the "Try, and I'll help you try again," side.

[Max_Killjoy]

An exemplar, rather than a bully.

[8BitNinja]

I'm trying to do this with my (first!) character in a play-by-post game.

Ely. She's a paladin dedicated to Shelyn.

My take on it is that, if a paladin serves a diety, they should embody that dieties values. Not preaching, or telling people what they can or can't do; that's the job for the religious elite. Instead, a paladin should be an example of how to live according to those values.

So, in the case of Ely...Shelyn is the goddess of art, love and beauty. So Ely, she interprets that as Two things:
-Love is the highest ideal a person can live by, so you should love everyone.
-Art is the highest thing a person can create, and everything is art.

So the result is...she's a paladin who wears her heart in her sleeve. She's happy, she has a zest for life, because everything -cooking, knitting, painting- is an art form of some kind, and she wants to experience it all.

She's also blindly optimistic and niave, but she believes the best in everyone. She wants everyone to be friends (platonic love), and encourages that through socialising and partying and encouraging social events.
She's not a paladin of the "Do or die" tradition, as much as the "Try, and I'll help you try again," side.

An exemplar, rather than a bully.

Living by example seems to be what people like most in a paladin

Good thing I don't yell at everyone for doing things I don't like

[Deepbluediver]

One of my favorite depictions ever of the paladin was in the novel "The Deed of Pakesnarrion" by Elizabeth Moon. There are anecdotal accounts that it was written at least in part because the author was tired of people playing Paladins badly at conventions- i.e. the way you described them as being un-fun.

But IMO the real issue is that a paladin is a very roleplay heavy class, and you need to know what kind of things the setting you are in is going to throw at you, which really means the GM. If I were you I'd sit down the GM beforehand and discuss how you want to play a Paladin and what they expect out of you- when I GM I require this from my players (I also make the Paladin a PrC, but that's another story). The GM shouldn't be looking to make the paladin fall, and nor should game-mechanics constrict the paladins choice of actions to the point where it becomes unfun for most everyone involved. By the same token, you don't want to try and dictate other people's actions or have to resort to PvP- talking to the other players isn't a bad idea either.
Essentially if you want to play a paladin you need to be more flexible, and the hard part is doing that without completely falling out of character. If you're not confident you can, it might be better to just multiclass as a Fighter/Cleric.

If I was ever in one of those stories where a GM put me in a situation where I had no good options and essentially fell no matter what, my response would probably be "My character looks around in horror at what he's done, then slits his own throat and bleeds to death. I'mma go role up a sorcerer now." Because that's not a scenario I want to be in.

So yeah, communication about intent and behavior, with both your GM and fellow players, is the most important thing IMO.

[Rumpus]

Play him as a bon vivant: You'd want to hang around with a paladin for the same reason you'd hang around with anyone else: because you have fun! Paladins are religious warriors, not monks. There's no reason a paladin shouldn't be leading drinking songs, chatting up attractive members of the opposite (or whatever) sex, and engaging in the occasional good-natured brawl. Or maybe make your paladin a naturally athletic nerd: he's perfectly capable of smiting evil, but he'd rather collect butterflies, study architecture, or chat about the local cricket club.

Play him as McConaughey as the quarterback in a high-school sports movie: he genuinely likes people, he defaults to "nice to everybody", and everybody wants his approval. People want to be around him to bask in his awesomeness. His team follows him because he will lead them to victory (and maybe beer and/or girls). He's the first one to take off when the coach calls for another round of wind sprints, he's always willing to pitch in when there's work to do, and he's a sympathetic ear when everybody else is tired of your angsty drama. He enjoys some good-natured ball-busting among friends, but never to the point of humiliation. He definitely intervenes if he sees anything that looks like real bullying. He makes you want to be a better version of yourself.

For a more adult version of this guy, look at Michael from the Dresden Files: competent, calm, collected, reliably does the right thing, willing and able to curb stomp evil in defense of the innocent. Who wouldn't want to be that guy's friend?

-edit-

What DeepBlueDiver said. You really need to have a talk with your DM before playing a paladin. In my games, I have my Paladins and Clerics draw up a short list of principles that they live by (kind of a Ten Commandments, but usually only 4-5 items). Even within the same alignment, different deities (and DMs) may have vastly different ideas of what constitutes "Good" (and "good enough"). Paladins are fallible mortals just like every other PC, and I would allow a paladin who made a choice in a no-win situation to explain why it was the best choice according to the tenets of his faith. I would only rule that a paladin had fallen if he did something that deliberately violated the tenets of his faith (i.e. he had a good option, but deliberately chose a bad one instead). I'm obviously pretty generous with paladins, but I've never had a player abuse it.

[8BitNinja]

I'm obviously pretty generous with paladins, but I've never had a player abuse it.

Strange, my brothers in faith and arms always seem to abuse their role as a paladin, but only when I'm not playing paladin

Strange

[Deepbluediver]

Strange, my brothers in faith and arms always seem to abuse their role as a paladin, but only when I'm not playing paladin

Well yeah, there are just bad players, too. People can take the opportunity to play as if "I'm good and therefor nothing I do can be evil and/or I can always justify it after the fact" or "my DM won't want to punish me so I'll push the paladin's code as far as I can.

That's why I made the paladin a PrC- so that I both have a chance to see how someone plays before they take on an RP-heavy role, and so that I have an in-game reason to veto someone. It's easier in my experience to stop problems before they start than to stop someone who's gonna use their divine-granted authority to wreck your campaign world.

[digiman619]

To properly play a paladin, there are two points to never forget: Firstly, always remember, you are righteous, not self-righteous. That LG on your character sheet doesn't make you any more virtuous, courageous, or all-around "good" than my CG Barbarian. If you want that, your actions rather than your alignment is what matters. And secondly, remember that while you have a cause and honor, that's not all you are. You need to have hobbies, things you carer about, things you hate; something else other than the cause needs to motivate you, or else you become flat, uninteresting, and not believable as a real person.

[goto124]

What makes a paladin different from a cleric?

[Lacco]

The GM shouldn't be looking to make the paladin fall, and nor should game-mechanics constrict the paladins choice of actions to the point where it becomes unfun for most everyone involved.

I both agree and disagree. GM shouldn't be actively trying to make the paladin fall. On the other hand, by stating you want to play a paladin in one of my games, you are telling me that you want specific kind of story - story about tough choices, about people who are expected to shine light in otherwise gray world, that you want to set an example by your actions and you - the player - want to be the guy who will choose the hard but right way before the easy but morally gray option.

However, you get a fair warning about this before you start creating a paladin. So I won't be pulling anything out of my hat - if you want to play a guy in armour, I will tell you to play a knight. But paladin means tough choices. Lots of tough choices.

For example - if you chased a villain who would surrender - and you knew the courts in this country were corrupt and he had most of the judges in his pocket, killing him would make you fall if you were a paladin serving a god of justice - you would commit a murder. But there are still options. Trial by combat/fire/anything else valid for the setting is one option - it would be at his conditions (=the hard way), but still not a murder and not reason to fall.

As I stated - I also agree with the advice - and the one about talking to GM is great one. Tell him the story you want to play and if you have a good GM, it will work. And GM shouldn't be looking to make the paladin fall - only present tough choices. If he chooses the easy way out... then did he want to play a paladin, or just Smitey McLayonhands?

[Deepbluediver]

I both agree and disagree. GM shouldn't be actively trying to make the paladin fall. On the other hand, by stating you want to play a paladin in one of my games, you are telling me that you want specific kind of story - story about tough choices, about people who are expected to shine light in otherwise gray world, that you want to set an example by your actions and you - the player - want to be the guy who will choose the hard but right way before the easy but morally gray option.
...
For example - if you chased a villain who would surrender - and you knew the courts in this country were corrupt and he had most of the judges in his pocket, killing him would make you fall if you were a paladin serving a god of justice - you would commit a murder. But there are still options. Trial by combat/fire/anything else valid for the setting is one option - it would be at his conditions (=the hard way), but still not a murder and not reason to fall.

Fair enough, though I don't like the idea that a paladin has to be lawful-stupid or lawful-oblivious. If a Paladin wants "trial by combat" to be part of his code, then fine, but not every paladin has the same code and if the bad guy starts chucking fireballs at you, that's gonna count most of the time IMO. The idea that you have to beat him once, have him surrender, heal him up, then beat him again "in trial" just sounds ridiculous to me.

Most of what I was talking about before was that the paladin shouldn't try or shouldn't have to try to dictate the actions of the rest of the party. If you are going to be in a group with a Warlock, a kleptomaniac Rogue, and a Cleric of Hextor, I'd probably veto any request to play a Paladin in that game because there is just no way that can end well. Unless all 4 players petitioned me that they could make it work, then I'd might let them try. By the same token if a Rogue steals something or a Fighter chops someones head off in battle, I'm not usually going to lay blame for that on the Paladin unless there's significant evidence that the Paladin could have and should have prevented it. There's a very fine line between not acting our of character and demanding that everyone else follow your code as well.

Part of the reason I made Paladin a PrC is that I want people to be able to prove (to the GM and in-story to the gods) that they can handle this kind of power and authority FIRST, and then once you've sufficiently proven yourself, you're kind of granted a double-O (as in James Bond 007) license from the gods. There are still limits, but you're allowed more latitude so long as you are actually effective and right. If a player surrenders to you, then they are also surrendering to your authority as a representative of the gods-on-earth.
Players playing paladins don't want to mess up because the gods have a direct-access hotline to their soul, but they are also supposed to be working in an imperfect world, and sometimes that means being flexible because not everyone else is CAPABLE of following your code. And you shouldn't go around attacking people for that. Things like temperance and mercy as also supposed to be characteristics of a Good (capital G) character.

[grimsly]

What makes a paladin different from a cleric?

In my understanding, Clerics work for a god while paladin's work for the greater good. So where a cleric might try to sell you on their religion, a paladin isn't trying to sell you anything. He's just here to protect you from the terrifying forces that would destroy your way of life. Of course, he might try proselytizing in his spare time, but it's not his job.

Honestly, the best analogy I can think of is Super heroes. Most super heroes are paladins. They fight for Truth, Justice, and the American/ British/ Martian/ Wakandan/ maybe Canadian sometimes Way. Some Super heroes are Clerics, they fight for a specific government or group. So, to reference a movie, War Machine acts like a Cleric, Captain America acts like a paladin.

But that's all just my take on it.

As for how to play a likeable paladin, ideally everyone will be onboard with having a paladin in the group before the game starts, which basically means everyone is somewhere toward the good end of the alignment spectrum, and acts like it. It would be disingenuous for a paladin to condone murder ( goblins do not count, nor should they), widespread theft, or anything that threatens society at large, so don't even start a group he might have to. Once that's avoided, all you have to do is find a likeable persona. I personally like the reformed thief, the wide eyed acolyte, or the guy in way over his head.

But let's say you bring a paladin to a con. First of all, don't. But if you do, and if you're playing a one shot, might I suggest Lawful Gullible? If you must object to something, let them talk their way out of it easily, then move on. Do not drag the game to a hault. You can grin and bear it for one adventure. But seriously, don't bring a paladin to a con.

[Max_Killjoy]

What makes a paladin different from a cleric?

Snarky answer? Hit dice, weapons, attack table, spell list...

[2D8HP]

As a paladin, I must face every day with the stereotype that I am a sacred stick in the holy mud. Every day, people think I am less of an agent of order and benevolence and more like the Spanish Inquisition.

Actually those darn snotty Wizards bug me more.
With Paladins I never expect the Spanish Inquisition.
*drops mic and quickly runs away*

[eru001]

Step one, don't be a stick in the mud.

Being Lawful and Good does not preclude one from camaraderie and fun. Tell jokes, hoist a tankard with the party. Be a friend. And when some other member of the party does something that your paladin feels is wrong. Don't get all high and mighty and "STOP EVILDOER YOU HAVE VIOLATED THE LAW", put that charisma to good use, approach as a friend, something more along the lines of "hey buddy, I think (insert action here) might not have been the right thing to do, people who didn't deserve to got hurt, why don't we work together to make this right." would probably be better received.

[Red Fel]

An exemplar, rather than a bully.

Well put. Concise and accurate.

I've played a Paladin before. It's true! And not even a "secretly Evil posing as a paragon of Good" character, or a "Paladin who will soon face a crisis of faith and become terror incarnate" character. A proper Paladin. Know what my code was? Put simply, it was this:

Every day, I strive to be a better person than I was yesterday.

That's it. That's the whole premise. Be kinder. Be more helpful. Be more just. Be more noble. Just a bit, each day, from now until forever. Let people see that and appreciate it. Don't push it. Don't hold other people to that standard.

And generally? People love that. You're not being a stick in the mud. You're being a great person. A shoulder to lean on. A drinking buddy. A helper and volunteer. A storyteller. A good listener. Just an all around great person. A person everyone likes to be around. A person some people would want to emulate.

Boom. Done.

[Geddy2112]

Like any character concept, it needs to be group and setting friendly. If the rest of the party wants to play street thugs and run a criminal empire, a paladin is not gonna fit in. Same as how Hannibal Lecter has no place in a party of good aligned vegetarians.

Being a paladin is all about action, not what you say. Proselytizing and evangelism are for clerics, unless specifically asked you should not be constantly going on and on about your deity.

I second that you are not a monk either. Unless your deity specifically forbids or frowns on sex, drugs, and rock and roll, get down with the party. Certainly not to any dangerous excess, but have some fun and lighten up every now and again.

Third, pick a cool deity. In all settings, there are pally deities that are total sticks in the mud, and some that are way more chill. Some deities basically command their followers to seek and smite, and others just want you to be a good person and help your friends, family, and community. Likewise, if you don't have a particular deity pick a cool oath or ideal that works with the group and setting.

The two best paladins I played with were a Wyvern paladin of valor(worshiped all gods in the setting that embodied this) and a Kitsune Gunslinger paladin of the meek. Both were raging drunks, neither proselytized, neither would seek and smite(although they made sure evil pricks who came knocking knew that they would the minute they try anything) and never sought to police the actions of the party. They certainly showed and voiced disapproval of some of the more chaotic stupid or nongood actions, but they were always the first into the fray, putting the lives of the party over their own. Several times each was near death, but the moment they got back up they kept going.

The kitsune ended up giving his life to save the party when fighting a powerful ghost. He was out of smite evil, grit, and then both of his gunbarrels jammed halfway through the fight. So he charged the ghost and used lay on hands to blast it with positive energy. The ghost stopped attacking the rest of the party(doing less damage), seeing the positive energy as a threat, and proceeded to telekinesis him with a heavy stone chair. Even at low HP, he continued to hurt it instead of using the energy to heal himself, even as the chair finally crushed him.

[applevalley]

The underlying theme of a Paladin is that their faith has called them to do what they do. They're a faithful creature by their nature, so play that aspect up among their friends. Not religious faith, but faith in their friends, faith in what they're doing - you're the buddy that's ALWAYS THERE. Yeah, maybe you didn't come UP with the plan to have a massive party to lift the town's spirits, but you're the guy lugging the huge barrels of ale from table to table with a grin on your face and making cracks about sacred drinks. Perhaps you're feeling a bit dubious about the value of the archer buying a suit of plate armour just because he got mauled in the last fight, but instead of griping you'll joke about how the helmet really brings out his eyes.

[8BitNinja]

The underlying theme of a Paladin is that their faith has called them to do what they do. They're a faithful creature by their nature, so play that aspect up among their friends. Not religious faith, but faith in their friends, faith in what they're doing - you're the buddy that's ALWAYS THERE. Yeah, maybe you didn't come UP with the plan to have a massive party to lift the town's spirits, but you're the guy lugging the huge barrels of ale from table to table with a grin on your face and making cracks about sacred drinks. Perhaps you're feeling a bit dubious about the value of the archer buying a suit of plate armour just because he got mauled in the last fight, but instead of griping you'll joke about how the helmet really brings out his eyes.

I'm pretty sure religious faith is important too. In fact, a paladin is pretty much a knight who fights for his religion, like a knight errant.

But whatever you say, boss

[Honest Tiefling]

In my understanding, Clerics work for a god while paladin's work for the greater good. So where a cleric might try to sell you on their religion, a paladin isn't trying to sell you anything. He's just here to protect you from the terrifying forces that would destroy your way of life. Of course, he might try proselytizing in his spare time, but it's not his job.

I never really liked this take on things. Sure, a cleric might serve a god, but there are godless clerics. It also doesn't sit well with me that the paladin is somehow always the most goodly of the goodly. What about the cleric who can literally summon in agents of good and purity in and have a chat with god? What of the rogue who just...Is a good person without the flashy powers? When paladins are assumed to be the most good of the good is when I stop being interested in them. Firstly, it often negates the RP of others ALSO trying to do the same thing with their own class (especially clerics), and secondly, people who do it tend to be the ones to murder children and insist it is a good act because they're paladins.

Wait a moment...*Looks at OPs username* tsk, tsk. Your con is showing.

[Red Fel]

I'm pretty sure religious faith is important too. In fact, a paladin is pretty much a knight who fights for his religion, like a knight errant.

But whatever you say, boss

False, depending on edition. I can't speak to 4e or 5e, but in 3.0/3.5, a Paladin is not tied to, nor required to be tied to, any deity. There are specialist Paladins - Paladins who trade or gain class features while in service to a particular deity - but these are exceptions, not the rule.

A Paladin fights for his principles, which may or may not include religion and faith. He fights for morality, virtue, and justice, which may or may not be based on his worship of a particular deity.

[Lacco]

Know what my code was? Put simply, it was this:

Every day, I strive to be a better person than I was yesterday.

:a tear rolls down one of my cheeks as I loudly applaud:

Yes, I'd love to GM for a paladin like that. I think we can close this down - the answer was provided

[Max_Killjoy]

Well put. Concise and accurate.

I've played a Paladin before. It's true! And not even a "secretly Evil posing as a paragon of Good" character, or a "Paladin who will soon face a crisis of faith and become terror incarnate" character. A proper Paladin. Know what my code was? Put simply, it was this:

Every day, I strive to be a better person than I was yesterday.

That's it. That's the whole premise. Be kinder. Be more helpful. Be more just. Be more noble. Just a bit, each day, from now until forever. Let people see that and appreciate it. Don't push it. Don't hold other people to that standard.

And generally? People love that. You're not being a stick in the mud. You're being a great person. A shoulder to lean on. A drinking buddy. A helper and volunteer. A storyteller. A good listener. Just an all around great person. A person everyone likes to be around. A person some people would want to emulate.

Boom. Done.

Exactly -- don't be the guy who keeps trying to make people follow the faith, but rather be the guy who inspires people to follow the faith. Let the preachers preach, you've got too much leading by example to do.

[8BitNinja]

False, depending on edition. I can't speak to 4e or 5e, but in 3.0/3.5, a Paladin is not tied to, nor required to be tied to, any deity. There are specialist Paladins - Paladins who trade or gain class features while in service to a particular deity - but these are exceptions, not the rule.

A Paladin fights for his principles, which may or may not include religion and faith. He fights for morality, virtue, and justice, which may or may not be based on his worship of a particular deity.

Is it still okay that most paladins I have either bumped into in games and all the ones I have played were extremely religious?

Just wondering

[2D8HP]

Is it still okay that most paladins I have either bumped into in games and all the ones I have played were extremely religious?

Just wondering

Perfectly O.K. If I read the fluff right (1e and 5e only, I don't know the other editions well enough) the important part is that their inspired to do good. As to how important the source of the inspiration (faith, family honor, nation etc.)? Yeah that's probably way too real world to get into here (PM me if you want to know my baseless speculations).
As to why so many seem prejudiced against Paladins? Hmmm..well in Oe terms while the Cleric started out as sort of undead fighting specialists, they quickly became the party healers, whereas Paladins have always wielded swords and have been sworn to fight Evil. Maybe too many PC's are anxious about what side of the line between good and evil they actually are? Also the 1e Paladin was limited in how much wealth they could retain, which could not be given away to other PC's and people often resent when altruism is directed "outside the tribe".
Of the three types of 5e Paladins? Well the Devotion Paladin can't lie or cheat, so maybe there's friction when the party wants to fool/trick the bad guys. The Ancients Paladin? Well really, unless you insist on being miserable I really don't see why anyone who was not actually evil would object to them except for...The Vengeance Paladin. Really while I can see why so many raised on Batman and Charles Bronson want to play them, their whole "fight my sworn foes, NO MATTER WHAT THE COST!", is kind of douche. If anyone's going to resist the Ancients Paladins mission to "Kindle the Light" it's them.

O. K. I think you know more about the subject than me but if you can spare the time, here are some non D&D world films that shape my view of what a "Paladin" is"
Billy Budd,
The Grapes of Wrath,
Saving Private Ryan;
Schindlers List, and
Selma (all are probably emotionally PG and R movies).
O.K. for more DnD like worlds, you've probably seen or read LotR.
Don't look at Aragorn, Frodo or Gandalf.
Look again at Sam, humble Sam.
And if you haven't seen it (don't watch this with young kids, I was 12 or 13),

Excalibur!

Did you see it? Take notes?
Not Arthur, not Lancelot, certainly not Gawain (in this movie and Malory, "Gawain and the Green Knight" is another story),
Percival.
The one who achieved the Grail.
That's a Paladin!
Does that help?

[Bohandas]

I think that Paladins should, mechanically, be retooled to more resemble Carrot Ironfounderson from the Discworld novels, who behaves much in the same way I imagine paladins as acting

False, depending on edition. I can't speak to 4e or 5e, but in 3.0/3.5, a Paladin is not tied to, nor required to be tied to, any deity. There are specialist Paladins - Paladins who trade or gain class features while in service to a particular deity - but these are exceptions, not the rule.

Moreso than specialist paladins there are deity specific feats and prestige classes for paladins. If you follow Heironeous you can carry a gat.

[Michael7123]

Well, if nothing else, I feel like I should link this. I've found it very helpful myself.

While a lot of good things have been said in this thread, there is something that I think many of you are overlooking:

The world will hate you.

Oh don't get me wrong, you save a life, you'll be called a hero. You'll get some thanks for healing your pals. The cities you save will give you honors.


But if you approach people about why you do these things- and how, yes, everyone does have the obligation to do the same to some extent, even in the most respectable and charismatic manner, many will oppose you. I'm not saying everyone is called to be a paladin- but lawful goods do belie that, yes, lawful goodness is the best way to live. Everyone (beings of pure metaphysical evil excluded, potentially) can be lawful good. And if your call in life is to be a baker, that does not make your life worth any less than that of a paladins.

But nobody likes being told they are wrong about morality, that they need to be better people, even when they are told and explained why. This is largely because being good is hard, and lawful good is harder. You have to put others before yourself, and many people are largely unwilling to do this. Sure, they love it when you do it for them- but they don't plan on returning the favor.

It goes without saying that you have to be a shining example of lawful goodness, always, and at all times. Be humble, because everyone's just got one soul, and in the end that's all that matters. Be wary of your own faults and shortcomings. What Red Fel mentioned about his paladin is a great idea- every day, challenge yourself to be more virtuous. Any lawful good character should take up this advice. Be kind. Love your God, Family, and Friends with all your heart, and never betray them. Put the interests of others before your self. Be willing to lay down your life for a total stranger should the situation call for it. Fulfill justice with mercy. Forgive those who wrong you. And above all else, do no evil, and always do what is good.

And should you fall? Rise again, atone for your misdeed, and make up for it threefold.

But don't tolerate evil. You can't. If evil is happening, paladins don't have a choice about stopping it- they have an obligation to stop it. It doesn't matter if everyone agrees that it's acceptable, it doesn't matter if you have to stand alone. It doesn't matter if people agree to it. The majority opinion on an issue, in of itself, does not grant it any moral weight.

Of course, the solution in this case is not to punish all evil doers with divine light and fire. Such behavior is more chaotic good than anything else. Law wants to bring people into the fold, to build them up, not tear them down. Speak to them. Use that high charisma score. Show them that you are a paladin, not a pala-dunce. Show them why what they do is wrong, and be ready and willing to provide redemption.

But you can't just go and let evil happen for the sake of appeasing others. To do so is cowardice and an act worthy of falling. At most, you can delay handling an evil at the moment in order to more effectively solver the problem. For example, work to overturn a unjust law rather than overthrowing an entire government to see it removed.

Don't do this because you want people to love (using the word in the broadest sense of the term) you. Do it because you love them, no matter how much they hate you.

Will all of this make your character miserable until the day they die? Quite possibly. But paladins don't do this because being good makes them happy- even though it does, in the end.

You do it because it's right.

[Illven]

Well, if nothing else, I feel like I should link this. I've found it very helpful myself.

While a lot of good things have been said in this thread, there is something that I think many of you are overlooking:

The world will hate you.

Oh don't get me wrong, you save a life, you'll be called a hero. You'll get some thanks for healing your pals. The cities you save will give you honors.


But if you approach people about why you do these things- and how, yes, everyone does have the obligation to do the same to some extent, even in the most respectable and charismatic manner, many will oppose you. I'm not saying everyone is called to be a paladin- but lawful goods do belie that, yes, lawful goodness is the best way to live. Everyone (beings of pure metaphysical evil excluded, potentially) can be lawful good. And if your call in life is to be a baker, that does not make your life worth any less than that of a paladins.

But nobody likes being told they are wrong about morality, that they need to be better people, even when they are told and explained why. This is largely because being good is hard, and lawful good is harder. You have to put others before yourself, and many people are largely unwilling to do this. Sure, they love it when you do it for them- but they don't plan on returning the favor.

It goes without saying that you have to be a shining example of lawful goodness, always, and at all times. Be humble, because everyone's just got one soul, and in the end that's all that matters. Be wary of your own faults and shortcomings. What Red Fel mentioned about his paladin is a great idea- every day, challenge yourself to be more virtuous. Any lawful good character should take up this advice. Be kind. Love your God, Family, and Friends with all your heart, and never betray them. Put the interests of others before your self. Be willing to lay down your life for a total stranger should the situation call for it. Fulfill justice with mercy. Forgive those who wrong you. And above all else, do no evil, and always do what is good.

And should you fall? Rise again, atone for your misdeed, and make up for it threefold.

But don't tolerate evil. You can't. If evil is happening, paladins don't have a choice about stopping it- they have an obligation to stop it. It doesn't matter if everyone agrees that it's acceptable, it doesn't matter if you have to stand alone. It doesn't matter if people agree to it. The majority opinion on an issue, in of itself, does not grant it any moral weight.

Of course, the solution in this case is not to punish all evil doers with divine light and fire. Such behavior is more chaotic good than anything else. Law wants to bring people into the fold, to build them up, not tear them down. Speak to them. Use that high charisma score. Show them that you are a paladin, not a pala-dunce. Show them why what they do is wrong, and be ready and willing to provide redemption.

But you can't just go and let evil happen for the sake of appeasing others. To do so is cowardice and an act worthy of falling. At most, you can delay handling an evil at the moment in order to more effectively solver the problem. For example, work to overturn a unjust law rather than overthrowing an entire government to see it removed.

Don't do this because you want people to love (using the word in the broadest sense of the term) you. Do it because you love them, no matter how much they hate you.

Will all of this make your character miserable until the day they die? Quite possibly. But paladins don't do this because being good makes them happy- even though it does, in the end.

You do it because it's right.

I keep feeling the urge to put in my sig that Lawful good is not better then chaotic good.

[Michael7123]

I keep feeling the urge to put in my sig that Lawful good is not better then chaotic good.

I was speaking from the perspective of Paladins, who do go for the whole "law" thing for a reason. This isn't to say that chaotic goods are evil- far from it. Just that Paladins are, by and large, convinced that lawfulness is more beneficial then chaos.

After all, if they didn't think that, they'd probably just say "why dilute goodness with anything else" and be neutral good. They certainly care more about goodness than order.